Unbelievable Idiot!

[franky1]

These experts... If they are so good why are they working for someone else?

I think that either you go in long term or do the obvious bids. I wish I had invested in oíl in 2008, didn't have the money or the knowledge of how to though.  It should have been pretty clear that in long run it would go back up from there.

oil... thats only doubled in price in 5 years.. thats 20% a year...

.. but bitcoin.. well if i had some in 2009 and cashed out today.

but anyways i bought up in 2012 and im happy, definetly happier then a 5 year wait on oil

[HammerFist]

Why don't you stick to the real topic - the guy hasn't got a clue about money.

Which is why he's been called the "guru of Wall Street gurus". Good thing we have noted Jägerbomb addict and bitcointalk forums user 152724 aka "Hammerfist" here to tell us all the truth.

Which moron called him that?  Did you listen to the interview where he describes what he thinks of bitcoin which can't be considered money?  If he were actually a guru, why doesn't he have enough money for a diet doctor?

[HammerFist]

oil... thats only doubled in price in 5 years.. thats 20% a year...

Actually, about 14%

[N12]

You guys are ridiculous.

He's right that Bitcoin isn't a unit of account since people price their goods and services in USD/EUR to BTC rates rather than Bitcoins themselves. Would you intuitively know how much a coke is in BTC? I bet you can do it for your local fiat currency though.

I should continue the criclejerk though: He say bad about Bitcoin, he bad! He know nothing!

[OleOle]

The IMF pays him because they're too late to mine. 

Hahaha! Quality

[HammerFist]

You guys are ridiculous.

He's right that Bitcoin isn't a unit of account since people price their goods and services in USD/EUR to BTC rates rather than Bitcoins themselves. Would you intuitively know how much a coke is in BTC? I bet you can do it for your local fiat currency though.

I should continue the criclejerk though: He say bad about Bitcoin, he bad! He know nothing!

Loads of people say bad about bitcoin.  No problem.  There is lots bad about it.  

But to say bitcoin isn't a 'unit of account' because people don't price goods in it - is just plain stupid.   'unit of account' has far greater meaning than 'people price goods in it'.  A professor at Columbia should not be arguing that because goods are not priced in bitcoin, it is not a unit of account.  Furthermore, people are beginning to price things in bitcoin - without regard for dollar or euro equivalent.  In one example, Mastercoin just raised a shitload of money on the notion of 1BTC = 100MSC - with no regard whatever for the value of dollar.  There are many more similar pricings each day.  But these are not necessary in order that bitcoin be considered a 'unit of account'.

[N0816]

He's right that Bitcoin isn't a unit of account since people price their goods and services in USD/EUR to BTC rates rather than Bitcoins themselves. Would you intuitively know how much a coke is in BTC? I bet you can do it for your local fiat currency though.

agree! Just go ahead and try to sell stuff on http://gnutiez.de/oc/. Maybe you will see, that BTCs don't have a value independent of the national currency.

For example: I sell a leap motion controller for 1 BTC.. Right now it is around 98€.. But maybe tomorrow it is much less. Would you be willing to take the risk? I do..

[N12]

HammerFist, I always thought a unit of account was that which you price things in, how you do your accounting, how you evaluate investment performance etc. I don't see many among us doing that for BTC. Not in mining, not in speculating, not in transacting.

Furthermore, I too would argue that Bitcoin isn't a medium of exchange either, since most of the time, it is merely used as a proxy for national currency. For instance, back when Silk Road was up, a buyer would go purchase BTC, then pay the merchant (who coincidentally demanded BTC priced in USD, and not BTC themselves, so you couldn't even be sure your BTC would suffice at the time of purchase), and the merchant would ship the wares and sell his BTC in turn, again for dirty fiat money, because that's what he needs to pay for practically anything.

How so is Bitcoin different than PaypalUSD, PaypalEUR etc. if it's merely being used as such a proxy/bridge for USD or EUR? PaypalUSD are no medium of exchange, it is the USD behind them.

I would call Bitcoin a store of value and a payment method/mechanism. Of course this can change if people begin using it differently, but that is the current state in my view.

[Fallen666]

He argues that bitcoin will never be a unit of account because nobody is ever going to price things in bitcoin.  He further argues bitcoin is not a medium of exchange because 'you don't have to keep a bitcoin balance to pay your bills.'

But somehow he is right.. every webshop where you can buy things using bitcoin, sells things for FIAT and calculates the bitcoin price according to the actual rate.

So.. If people start selling things for BTC without looking at the exchange rate.. then we could talk about currency..

maybe you are interesstet in selling things in BTC only.. just offer it here.. http://gnutiez.de/oc
 

take a look at our website www.bitroad.co.uk ......we used to display fiat prices because is good for business but we stopped to incentive Crypto. You can buy using paypal but you see the price in BTC or LTC until checkout so is kind of the opposite of what you might find on other sites.

[N12]

That's the point, if I go into a supermarket today and go again tomorrow or next week, I know that prices most likely won't have changed at all. When you rely on BTC divided by <whatever fluctuating exchange rate> to automatically calculate your prices, you aren't using Bitcoins as the unit of account, you're using fiat money.

I'm not critcizing people who do that though, because that is simply the reality. Bitcoin's value is volatile, and thus it makes a poor unit of account.

[N0816]

take a look at our website www.bitroad.co.uk ......we used to display fiat prices because is good for business but we stopped to incentive Crypto. You can buy using paypal but you see the price in BTC or LTC until checkout so is kind of the opposite of what you might find on other sites.

nice site.. but. The prices are still in $ or whatever.. They are calculated in real time at given exchange rates and are shown as BTC. Means.. The BTC-Price varies.

http://gnutiez.de/oc/ is the other way round. BTC stays the same. Even if the rates for BTC to $ or € drop or rise. Thats the  point!

[Fallen666]

take a look at our website www.bitroad.co.uk ......we used to display fiat prices because is good for business but we stopped to incentive Crypto. You can buy using paypal but you see the price in BTC or LTC until checkout so is kind of the opposite of what you might find on other sites.

nice site.. but. The prices are still in $ or whatever.. They are calculated in real time at given exchange rates and are shown as BTC. Means.. The BTC-Price varies.

http://gnutiez.de/oc/ is the other way round. BTC stays the same. Even if the rates for BTC to $ or € drop or rise. Thats the  point!

True, but doing this at the current point in Bitcoin development and given the price volatility is mixing speculating and commerce. It's an interesting solution but a bit risky to become common.

[N0816]

take a look at our website www.bitroad.co.uk ......we used to display fiat prices because is good for business but we stopped to incentive Crypto. You can buy using paypal but you see the price in BTC or LTC until checkout so is kind of the opposite of what you might find on other sites.

nice site.. but. The prices are still in $ or whatever.. They are calculated in real time at given exchange rates and are shown as BTC. Means.. The BTC-Price varies.

http://gnutiez.de/oc/ is the other way round. BTC stays the same. Even if the rates for BTC to $ or € drop or rise. Thats the  point!

True, but doing this at the current point in Bitcoin development and given the price volatility is mixing speculating and commerce. It's an interesting solution but a bit risky to become common.

Yeah. I Know, but nevertheless I'll try to sell all my cds on this platform. Stay tuned.. there will be hundreds! ;-)

[Fallen666]

Wish you all the best for your project is always good to have innovative ideas.

[HammerFist]

HammerFist, I always thought...

In the US, everything is priced in USD.  You can convert to Euro by way of the exchange rate if you like.  But nothing is priced in Euro in the US.  So, as far as US is concerned then Euro is not a unit of account and is not a currency by reasoning of that fat fool and you Blitz. 

Oh, so now you want to modify your argument and say so long as it is used somewhere for setting prices, then it is a unit of account.  OK - if you like that argument, I am saying bitcoin is similarly used somewhere for setting prices.  http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-unit-of-account-germany

By the way, all this is moot.  'unit of account' does not mean one uses it to set prices.  What an absurd definition.  This is why I originally posted this garbage the guy was saying.  Even the wiki definition is far more broad that that. 

[illpoet]

You guys are ridiculous.

He's right that Bitcoin isn't a unit of account since people price their goods and services in USD/EUR to BTC rates rather than Bitcoins themselves. Would you intuitively know how much a coke is in BTC? I bet you can do it for your local fiat currency though.

I should continue the criclejerk though: He say bad about Bitcoin, he bad! He know nothing!

i will sell you a coke for 1 btc, shipped.

[Boussac]

As a Columbia business school alumnus, I am not impressed by this guy. He starts out , predictably, by enumerating the functions of money per its Aristotelian definition: defining money by what it does instead of what it is. Old propaganda trick. The debate is about the freedom to use a different monetary system: who would need a clone of the fiat currency system. So if the alternative is different, how could it map exactly to the current definition of money?
Academics should be at the forefront of the debate but self-censorship applies because most of their students aspire to be hired by financial institutions.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Besides that, look at what a bloated fat slouch the guy is.  Hasn't he any self respect?

Dude is handicapped.   Would the unbelievable idiot be you?

Speaking of, this dude is a useless piece of shit and can't even wipe his own ass:



Bruce Greenwald is considered an expect in what he does, I am missing many a teeth, and LukeJr is... Did I mention I also have hemorrhoid flareups?

[HammerFist]

Bruce Greenwald is considered an expect in what he does

And there lies the joke.  The guy doesn't even get it - and 'it' is in his field.  Look at the Columbia alumnus above - he understands why Greenwald is a boner.

[crumbs]

As a Columbia business school alumnus, I am not impressed by this guy. He starts out , predictably, by enumerating the functions of money per its Aristotelian definition: defining money by what it does instead of what it is. Old propaganda trick. The debate is about the freedom to use a different monetary system: who would need a clone of the fiat currency system. So if the alternative is different, how could it map exactly to the current definition of money?

If what you have [bitcoin] does not fit the current definition of money, then it's not money.  Q.E.D.

Academics should be at the forefront of the debate but self-censorship applies because most of their students aspire to be hired by financial institutions.

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