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Author Topic: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?  (Read 875 times)
Jet Cash
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May 18, 2018, 08:14:45 PM
 #81

The evidence doesn't support the fact that Novichok was used.
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July 06, 2018, 11:07:50 AM
 #82

Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).
guybrushthreepwood
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July 06, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
 #83

There was another incident recently in the UK with Novichok. Looks like they might have come into contact with a contaminated item or so it has been alleged: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44733873

Quote
Police in hazmat suits have entered a hostel in Salisbury as they search for the item contaminated with the nerve agent that poisoned a couple.

Investigators in protective clothing began searching John Baker House, where one of the victims, Dawn Sturgess, 44, lives, on Friday afternoon.

Police believe Charlie Rowley, 45, and Ms Sturgess were exposed to Novichok after handling the unknown object.

The pair remain in a critical condition in hospital.

The item was unlikely to have been left in the open before they touched it, a government scientist has told BBC News.

BBC home affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford said the search for the item could take "weeks or months" and that no objects have yet been collected for testing.

Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).

You should write a thriller with that imagination.

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July 06, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
 #84

Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).

It took quite a while to cure them or was that just keeping the audience in suspense?

Realistically this really isn't realistic at all it took a while for the antidote to be found and a while to pull all three of them out of a critical condition and a high dependency unit.

Maybe Russia didn't want a murder case on their hands, they probably know the strength of the antidoes the UK have (they have antidotes for quite a few novichok serums and for the UK VX serums and the antidotes are usually general for both substances so they'd just need a low strength novichok to give a message of their strength).
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July 12, 2018, 05:57:04 PM
 #85

My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?


...but the alternative story (that the Russian gov imply) is also ridiculous

Why would the British gov do something so incredibly transparent? It's so obviously implausible that anyone except the most tribally aligned would willingly believe it.



The British and Russian govs are probably doing a joint PR operation here, and the objective is likely to push people with strong anti or pro Russian positions even further into entrenchment (and subsequently ratchet up the "cold war 2.0" narrative). So it's likely good old fashioned divide & conquer, basically. That's been the outcome after all; pro-russians & anti-russians have a bigger distrust between them than ever, and the only benefit can be whatever outcome of the cold war 2.0 narrative is desired (which is likely both governments becoming more repressive, because public safety)
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July 16, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
 #86

If Skripal poisoned by Russians, Britain hide the details of the investigation and  detain him. Russia, on the contrary, wants to achieve an honest and truthful investigation. They are not afraid of the truth because they have nothing to hide.
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August 23, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
Merited by hatshepsut93 (1)
 #87

Here the answer is very simple and logical. When Russia attacked Georgia, the Russians got away with it. That's why Russia invaded Ukraine without knowing what consequences this war will bring to Russia itself! So with the poisoning of the Violin. Before this in Britain, Litvinenko was poisoned in the same way, and this was also taken off by the Russians. That's what they decided to do with Skrypal.
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August 24, 2018, 12:01:52 AM
Merited by Carlton Banks (1)
 #88

The British military base at Porton Down - deemed a "pioneer in chemicals research" - is more than capable of manufacturing it. Chances are that they manufactured it, but unfortunately a truly independent investigation will never be allowed to take place while the likes of Theresa May sits in government.

This is exactly my thoughts regarding this. In fact the strain of chemical used in this case is more likely from Porton Down than Russia says the "experts". In saying that the whole spook game is a mishmash of disinfo and puzzles. No one will ever know truth. regardless of who investigates.
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September 05, 2018, 07:18:44 PM
 #89

The alias' of the perpetrators was released recently by the UK government...

Both governments are probably capable of producing the substances though.
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September 07, 2018, 08:58:52 AM
 #90

My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?



It's about sending the message to all the "traitors": "we can get you no matter where you hide, and we can do it again and again".

Russia will face absolutely no repercussions for this, maybe just some slap on the wrist, and that's exactly why the did this - because they've been getting away with so much shit in the recent years.

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September 07, 2018, 11:01:03 AM
 #91

You guys are missing the whole point. Russia wants Syria to be a democratic nation, and is supporting Assad to achieve this. The Eton/Oxford elite ( read the US, the UK, and the EU ) want it to be a deep state satellite under their control. Syria and Russia want to free Idlib, but that is the last of the UK white helmets terrorist strongholds, so they don't want that. They need to stir up justification for an attack on the legitimate forces, and they seek to villify Russia again with this stupid story about the "arrests". The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

I wonder if Russia has managed to discourage them from trying yet another fake chemical attack to justify the US/UK attack on the civilians of Idlib.
guybrushthreepwood
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September 07, 2018, 12:09:10 PM
 #92

My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?



It's about sending the message to all the "traitors": "we can get you no matter where you hide, and we can do it again and again".

Russia will face absolutely no repercussions for this, maybe just some slap on the wrist, and that's exactly why the did this - because they've been getting away with so much shit in the recent years.



I don't know about that, there probably will be punishments in some form or another (sanctions and so on). Having foreign agents poison people on British soil is pretty serious, especially when innocents are caught up in the process, but it's not like countries like the UK and Russia ever play by the rules. Espionage is illegal in most countries around the world but doesn't stop Russia, the UK or the USA engaging in it constantly. If the UK lets this action slide then they're goign to seem very weak.

The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.
jackg
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September 07, 2018, 12:30:34 PM
 #93

The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.

It's fairly obvious it was indeed Russians, I'm surprised the information actually hit the news. There's a lot of other news about russia that doesn't seem to be as documented as this incident, the reason the other incidents go fairly undocumented is that it shows how weak the British government actually are and how they won't put on any sactions or even threaten another country...


The other issue in the UK is that The Queen is given too much control and appears to just be signing through anything the PM presents to her (which shouldn't be done as the parliament should vote in favour and then the bill should be handed to The Queen or one of her associates for Royal Assent)...
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September 07, 2018, 01:15:17 PM
 #94

Royal assent is just a formality now. The Queen has no power to withhold it in practice.

There is no logical reasons for the Russians to use Novichok in the UK, and there is no evidence. The government is aware of this, and it refuses to allow any investigation, or to provide any analysis or permission for an external review. The only possibility that fits the facts is that the poisoning was done by a German EU asset working in Porton Down. If the Russians had done it, they would all be dead, it wouldn't have been a botched publicity stunt. The timing fits the UK agenda, and it is against any Russian interest as well.
jackg
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September 07, 2018, 02:43:51 PM
 #95

How's it against russian agenda, it's not like the government are going to do anything about it anyway.

I thought the EU officials were doing their analysis on the novichok also. If it was a british attack, wny not use VX and just say you don't know where it came from...
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September 08, 2018, 01:44:41 PM
 #96

The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.

It's fairly obvious it was indeed Russians, I'm surprised the information actually hit the news. There's a lot of other news about russia that doesn't seem to be as documented as this incident, the reason the other incidents go fairly undocumented is that it shows how weak the British government actually are and how they won't put on any sactions or even threaten another country...



I think it's fairly obvious now, but I was a bit skeptical at first, but I like to keep an open mind.

There is no logical reasons for the Russians to use Novichok in the UK

Please elaborate why there's no logic. It's probably more logical than just gunning them down in the street. The Russians have done it before on British soil with the radiation poising of Litvinenko. I admit that if you wanted to frame Russia then the UK could likely do it the same way, but that seems the less likely scenario here and the opposite is the exciting conspiracy about it being a false flag attack.

and there is no evidence. The government is aware of this, and it refuses to allow any investigation, or to provide any analysis or permission for an external review. The only possibility that fits the facts is that the poisoning was done by a German EU asset working in Porton Down. If the Russians had done it, they would all be dead, it wouldn't have been a botched publicity stunt. The timing fits the UK agenda, and it is against any Russian interest as well.

What's the evidence that it was the UK? There now seems to be quite a bit of evidence of Russian involvement:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/novichok-poisoning-what-we-know-so-far
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/uk-builds-pressure-on-russia-after-naming-spies-as-novichok-attackers

Two Russian agents fly into the UK two days before and are in the same area. You think that's a coincidence?

The first link above details the pair's movements:

Quote
Basu said the pair, who are charged with conspiracy to murder, entered Britain 48 hours before the assassination attempt travelling on official Russian passports issued in the false names they used. They were named by British police as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, believed to be aliases.

British prosecutors said there was enough evidence to charge the Russian pair with conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal, himself a former GRU officer who sold Russian secrets to Britain before settling in Salisbury, Wiltshire.

Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.
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September 08, 2018, 02:15:09 PM
 #97


Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.
[/quote]

What a load of bollocks - if they could see them smuggling in novichok, why did they let me through customs.

Also, I don't believe that anyone has been charged, and they haven't disclosed their real names for anyone to check on them.

Here is a video about the alleged perpetrators -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5f0L0olahA

The main reason why I don't think it could possibly be the Russians is the incompetent amateurism associated with the event(s). If it had been the Russians, then they would have done the job properly, and they would not have made such a botched job of the publicity. In fact they would have avoided any publicity, as the publicity is carefully arranged to damage Russia.
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September 08, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
 #98


Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.


What a load of bollocks - if they could see them smuggling in novichok, why did they let me through customs.

What makes you think they brought it through customs? They could have just picked it up from somewhere in the UK. It's not like drugs aren't smuggled in through there everyday, though. Besides, it's probably not that difficult to get through. It was stored in some sort of perfume bottle:



That wouldn't look amiss in anyone's luggage and I don't think airports screen for this sort of stuff, especially  if it wasn't in their hand-luggage.

Also, I don't believe that anyone has been charged, and they haven't disclosed their real names for anyone to check on them.

The probably don't know their real names, but they were traveling on fake passports under the names of Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/salisbury-poisonings-police-name-and-charge-two-suspects

Quote
CPS says there is enough evidence to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov over Wiltshire novichok poisonings
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September 08, 2018, 03:28:35 PM
 #99


What makes you think they brought it through customs? They could have just picked it up from somewhere in the UK.

Such as Porton Down?

Didn't they state that they knew it was smuggled through customs, and they had the evidence?

The media would say they were Russian agents if they were seen drinking English made vodka.
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September 08, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
 #100

The evidence doesn't support the fact that Novichok was used.

I agree there is no good case without solid evidence which in this case is lacking.
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