Websites for doing the bitcoin speculating

[Joe200]

So we have a list of websites for bitcoin speculators pinned to the top of this forum. What about a list of websites for actually performing the speculating?

The fiat/BTC exchanges where you trade with other people, and exchanges where you trade with the exchange are just a start. What about websites for leveraged trading, BTC futures, BTC lending, "stocks" / "options" / "bonds" exchanges, funds not traded on these exchanges. Anyone have such a list?

It would be nice to know the daily volume for these too. A lot of these websites are just starting out and are not usable. But still nice to know about them as potentials for the future.

Here are a few sites that I just found out about this morning, while browsing, that I did not know about before. Coinsetter, bitbond, bitcoinfof.

[1714820872]

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[1714820872]

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[1714820872]

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[theonewhowaskazu]

So we have a list of websites for bitcoin speculators pinned to the top of this forum. What about a list of websites for actually performing the speculating?

The fiat/BTC exchanges where you trade with other people, and exchanges where you trade with the exchange are just a start. What about websites for leveraged trading, BTC futures, BTC lending, "stocks" / "options" / "bonds" exchanges, funds not traded on these exchanges. Anyone have such a list?

It would be nice to know the daily volume for these too. A lot of these websites are just starting out and are not usable. But still nice to know about them as potentials for the future.

Here are a few sites that I just found out about this morning, while browsing, that I did not know about before. Coinsetter, bitbond, bitcoinfof.

My favorites:

1broker.com
bitfinex.com

Just my personal opinion.

[01BTC10]

So we have a list of websites for bitcoin speculators pinned to the top of this forum. What about a list of websites for actually performing the speculating?

The fiat/BTC exchanges where you trade with other people, and exchanges where you trade with the exchange are just a start. What about websites for leveraged trading, BTC futures, BTC lending, "stocks" / "options" / "bonds" exchanges, funds not traded on these exchanges. Anyone have such a list?

It would be nice to know the daily volume for these too. A lot of these websites are just starting out and are not usable. But still nice to know about them as potentials for the future.

Here are a few sites that I just found out about this morning, while browsing, that I did not know about before. Coinsetter, bitbond, bitcoinfof.

My favorites:

1broker.com
bitfinex.com

Just my personal opinion.

+1

Here is my list: https://quebecbitcoin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=41

[theonewhowaskazu]

So we have a list of websites for bitcoin speculators pinned to the top of this forum. What about a list of websites for actually performing the speculating?

The fiat/BTC exchanges where you trade with other people, and exchanges where you trade with the exchange are just a start. What about websites for leveraged trading, BTC futures, BTC lending, "stocks" / "options" / "bonds" exchanges, funds not traded on these exchanges. Anyone have such a list?

It would be nice to know the daily volume for these too. A lot of these websites are just starting out and are not usable. But still nice to know about them as potentials for the future.

Here are a few sites that I just found out about this morning, while browsing, that I did not know about before. Coinsetter, bitbond, bitcoinfof.

My favorites:

1broker.com
bitfinex.com

Just my personal opinion.

+1

Here is my list: https://quebecbitcoin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=41

BTW, whats the actual purpose of ICBIT, is there ever any actual depth there?

[01BTC10]

So we have a list of websites for bitcoin speculators pinned to the top of this forum. What about a list of websites for actually performing the speculating?

The fiat/BTC exchanges where you trade with other people, and exchanges where you trade with the exchange are just a start. What about websites for leveraged trading, BTC futures, BTC lending, "stocks" / "options" / "bonds" exchanges, funds not traded on these exchanges. Anyone have such a list?

It would be nice to know the daily volume for these too. A lot of these websites are just starting out and are not usable. But still nice to know about them as potentials for the future.

Here are a few sites that I just found out about this morning, while browsing, that I did not know about before. Coinsetter, bitbond, bitcoinfof.

My favorites:

1broker.com
bitfinex.com

Just my personal opinion.

+1

Here is my list: https://quebecbitcoin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=41

BTW, whats the actual purpose of ICBIT, is there ever any actual depth there?

Actually, this a list of all the platform that I know of but I mostly use Bitfinex and 1broker (before they increased their fees).

[Joe200]

Who are you trading with at each of these sites?

Bitfinex - other traders.
1broker - the broker.
btc.sx - ??

Which type of trading is better? When trading with other traders, the risk is low volume. When trading with the broker, the risk is that they hike the spread just when you think you're making money. Do these factors really come into play, or are they just theoretical?

With 1broker the spread is 2.8 points. How much is a point? If you buy and sell right away, you lose 2.8 ... dollars per bitcoin converted to bitcoins?

[theonewhowaskazu]

Who are you trading with at each of these sites?

Bitfinex - other traders.
1broker - the broker.
btc.sx - ??

Which type of trading is better? When trading with other traders, the risk is low volume. When trading with the broker, the risk is that they hike the spread just when you think you're making money. Do these factors really come into play, or are they just theoretical?

With 1broker the spread is 2.8 points. How much is a point? If you buy and sell right away, you lose 2.8 ... dollars per bitcoin converted to bitcoins?

Obviously its 'better' to trade against other traders, since you can see whats going on. I have no idea whats going on in 1broker's account and thus there's less opportunity for me  to trade in anticipation of it.

As for 1broker, you're loosing an amount equal to (2.8/[BITCOIN PRICE])*100%.

In other words, if the price of bitcoin is $150, $2.8 spread equates to about 1.9%, roughly double the Bitstamp fee (remember, you're only paying it once per in-and-out not once per in-or-out).

However that isn't really fair, because on Bitstamp you're going to suffer from slippage as well, sometimes of a considerable amount. So, there are ups-and-downs to both systems. The primary problem I'm worried about with 1broker is counterparty risk. BTC.sx is also trading against the broker as well.

Theres one small thing I'm not quite understanding about 1broker though.

Say, theoretically, I were to leverage 100 BTC long BTC at x2. If the price goes up 1%, I make 2%. Now, if the price goes down 0.99% (to bring it back down to the original price) would I lose 1.98%, bringing me lower than when I originally invested due to beta decay, or would I lose only 1.96%, bringing me back to where I originally invested?

Whats really weird about 1broker IMO is the whole way they do everything by percent rather than exposure,  which  can create some super odd results. Say like for some weird reason I'd held a long at $100 since a long time ago, and now its $150,  with leverage 2. Then, I short leverage 5, with an equal amount. Now, the price goes down to $100. Believe it or not I make money from that. With two equal leverage 5 trades. The system is just a bit trolls, IMO.

[01BTC10]

No slippage with 1broker but low limit (8BTC X MaxLeverage(5) = MaxPosition(40BTC) ).
You need to be cautious about slippage on BitFinex but it's possible to open much higher position than on 1broker.

For a while, I was trading simultaneously on 1broker and BitFinex but left 1broker after they lowered their limit and then upped the spread.

Also, I did try plus500 but their platform is rigged to their advantage and I'm serious.

[theonewhowaskazu]

Is btc.sx paying out profits according to the 1broker model (percentage-wise) or is it paying out profits according to traditional leverage?

[theonewhowaskazu]

Ok time to more reasonably articulate my BTC.sx question.

In 1broker, I deposit 1 BTC, long BTC with leverage of 4 with the whole 1 BTC. BTC goes up by 2%, I get 1.8 BTC.

In bitfinex, I deposit 1 BTC, use that 1 BTC as collateral to borrow 4 BTC worth of USD, then use that to buy 4 BTC. BTC goes up by 2%, I sell enough BTC to pay back my debts, I end up with 1.078 BTC.

(These are before fees, obviously).

How does BTC.sx work? The percentage model or the Bitfinex "normal leverage" model? 

[msc]

Ok time to more reasonably articulate my BTC.sx question.

You deposit 1 BTC, and use it as collateral to borrow approximately 10 BTC.  When you close the position, you get your collateral back, plus/minus any gain/loss in the value of that 10 BTC.  Every 24 hours after your trade, you pay margin interest out of your uninvested BTC balance.  For long-term trades, you may need to close and re-open a position to release the profit and allow it to be spent or re-invested.

[Mick129]

Hi i am curently speculating on plus500 and I would like to know...is it a good broker? If no, why? And finally wich broker cost less per transaction , with a good leverage and stability?

[theonewhowaskazu]

Ok time to more reasonably articulate my BTC.sx question.

You deposit 1 BTC, and use it as collateral to borrow approximately 10 BTC.  When you close the position, you get your collateral back, plus/minus any gain/loss in the value of that 10 BTC.  Every 24 hours after your trade, you pay margin interest out of your uninvested BTC balance.  For long-term trades, you may need to close and re-open a position to release the profit and allow it to be spent or re-invested.

Why would I have to close and re-open? Wouldn't it be able to hang tight? or is closing/re-opening just due to get another 24 hours interest free? Because When BTC is at 100 1 BTC can buy twice as much BTC/cent as 1 BTC at 200.

[byronbb]

No slippage with 1broker but low limit (8BTC X MaxLeverage(5) = MaxPosition(40BTC) ).
You need to be cautious about slippage on BitFinex but it's possible to open much higher position than on 1broker.

For a while, I was trading simultaneously on 1broker and BitFinex but left 1broker after they lowered their limit and then upped the spread.

Also, I did try plus500 but their platform is rigged to their advantage and I'm serious.

How so? And losing isn't a valid reason.

[msc]

Why would I have to close and re-open? Wouldn't it be able to hang tight? or is closing/re-opening just due to get another 24 hours interest free?

As an example:

Balance:    ฿    0.45654007
Deposit:    ฿    10.00000000
Active P/L:    ฿    3.45514194
Net Value:    ฿    13.91168201

0.45 is my unused balance, and 10 BTC is the collateral for my positions (margin deposit).  But my daily interest is 0.87, and that can only be paid out of the unused balance.  So I need to either deposit more BTC, or close a position to free up some of that 3.45 profit.  It would also free up some of the 10 BTC deposit, potentially allowing me to re-place the trade. 

Closing and re-opening just to avoid an interest payment isn't favorable, because the spread is larger than one day's interest, so of course if you're able to deposit BTC and hold your positions, that's better.

[theonewhowaskazu]

Why would I have to close and re-open? Wouldn't it be able to hang tight? or is closing/re-opening just due to get another 24 hours interest free?

As an example:

Balance:    ฿    0.45654007
Deposit:    ฿    10.00000000
Active P/L:    ฿    3.45514194
Net Value:    ฿    13.91168201

0.45 is my unused balance, and 10 BTC is the collateral for my positions (margin deposit).  But my daily interest is 0.87, and that can only be paid out of the unused balance.  So I need to either deposit more BTC, or close a position to free up some of that 3.45 profit.  It would also free up some of the 10 BTC deposit, potentially allowing me to re-place the trade. 

Closing and re-opening just to avoid an interest payment isn't favorable, because the spread is larger than one day's interest, so of course if you're able to deposit BTC and hold your positions, that's better.

Oh yea, the interest, that explains it.

BTW, does interest "lock in" at the time you make your order or can it fluctuate? Can suddenly the financing costs go through the roof and you end up screwed?

[msc]

BTW, does interest "lock in" at the time you make your order or can it fluctuate? Can suddenly the financing costs go through the roof and you end up screwed?

Yes, the interest, deposit, and trade size are locked in for existing trades.  They can fluctuate for future trades.

[theonewhowaskazu]

BTW, does interest "lock in" at the time you make your order or can it fluctuate? Can suddenly the financing costs go through the roof and you end up screwed?

Yes, the interest, deposit, and trade size are locked in for existing trades.  They can fluctuate for future trades.

On Broker1, the interest fluctuates even during an existing trade.

[01BTC10]

No slippage with 1broker but low limit (8BTC X MaxLeverage(5) = MaxPosition(40BTC) ).
You need to be cautious about slippage on BitFinex but it's possible to open much higher position than on 1broker.

For a while, I was trading simultaneously on 1broker and BitFinex but left 1broker after they lowered their limit and then upped the spread.

Also, I did try plus500 but their platform is rigged to their advantage and I'm serious.

How so? And losing isn't a valid reason.

First you trade only paper bitcoins.
Second, they freeze trading during volatility period and maybe other tricks to gain an edge on traders: http://thefxview.com/2013/07/23/virtual-dealer-plugin/

In the link I posted, they talk about 1-5 seconds delay but I've seen 60+ with Plus500. Wait until there is a period of high volatility and watch your positions getting liquidated one by one without even being able to close anything and you will understand