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Author Topic: please stop using the bitcoin client on your home computers to store your BTC  (Read 3795 times)
Tasty Champa
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July 24, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
 #21

Storing a decentralized currency on a centralized database (exchange, eWallet, whatever).  How ironic.

Is storing "decentralized currency in a centralized database on yr home computer" somehow different though?

You do have an underlying great idea there, one I would really like to see expanded on and in development.
A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development however. (I'm not a developer so it's not really my place to try pushing ideas too them until I can come up with something they don't know they need. One day I would like to be a part of it somehow even if it's just usability. I'm great with usability.)

Certainly good practice, not keeping all of your eggs in one basket.
Something I should add to the rant if I edit it, thanks for that. Smiley
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spruce
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July 24, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
 #22


A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development yet.


A paper bitcoin wallet doesn't exist on your home computer. Your money would really only exist in the block chain, which is decentralized. The private key would not be decentralized, of course, assuming you didn't want everyone to be able to spend your coins. Smiley
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July 24, 2011, 02:41:13 PM
 #23

*This isn't intended for security experts
**rant alert!

It was great in the beginning, the client was bitcoin's harbinger,
but now it's a completely new game that requires a level of security,
that isn't here or foreseeable yet. It's talked about, but it's still far away.

Out of maybe 20-40 issues I've seen since signing up to this forum the people with the most bitcoins lost due to theft, computer or even user failure was from running the client.

The real options right now that is not widely spread to new people, and is actually turning people away is not knowing to entrust your stake with an exchange or online wallet.
The people that run exchanges and online wallets have so much more to lose than you, so please use them.

If their site goes down, their business goes down, therefore the site being up and secure is of the utmost importance to them. This can be relied on, as trust and security is interdependent to them. If one is lost the other is taken for as long as the imbalance is happening.

Remember to do your own research into this.
If running the client is the most secure method for your situation, and you are not at Mensa level, I'm the only person telling you to reflect on this rant. I don't like seeing people pissed off, confused and just being kind of hateful and hugely skeptical toward and of one another. 

So, if after all the research you have done, all of this is still becoming way to daunting for you, use an exchange or online wallet. You will feel so much better having that layer of detachment and you might even notice no transaction fees. After that all you have to really be mindful of is managing all of your passwords, and the computer you are using.

/end of line



OR just backup your damn wallet and sleep at peace.

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            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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Tasty Champa
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July 24, 2011, 03:51:53 PM
 #24

*This isn't intended for security experts
**rant alert!

It was great in the beginning, the client was bitcoin's harbinger,
but now it's a completely new game that requires a level of security,
that isn't here or foreseeable yet. It's talked about, but it's still far away.

Out of maybe 20-40 issues I've seen since signing up to this forum the people with the most bitcoins lost due to theft, computer or even user failure was from running the client.

The real options right now that is not widely spread to new people, and is actually turning people away is not knowing to entrust your stake with an exchange or online wallet.
The people that run exchanges and online wallets have so much more to lose than you, so please use them.

If their site goes down, their business goes down, therefore the site being up and secure is of the utmost importance to them. This can be relied on, as trust and security is interdependent to them. If one is lost the other is taken for as long as the imbalance is happening.

Remember to do your own research into this.
If running the client is the most secure method for your situation, and you are not at Mensa level, I'm the only person telling you to reflect on this rant. I don't like seeing people pissed off, confused and just being kind of hateful and hugely skeptical toward and of one another. 

So, if after all the research you have done, all of this is still becoming way to daunting for you, use an exchange or online wallet. You will feel so much better having that layer of detachment and you might even notice no transaction fees. After that all you have to really be mindful of is managing all of your passwords, and the computer you are using.

/end of line



OR just backup your damn wallet and sleep at peace.

...still requires running the client.
Tasty Champa
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July 24, 2011, 03:55:39 PM
 #25


A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development yet.


A paper bitcoin wallet doesn't exist on your home computer. Your money would really only exist in the block chain, which is decentralized. The private key would not be decentralized, of course, assuming you didn't want everyone to be able to spend your coins. Smiley

From what I gather that is a long term storage solution with not so much in usability correct?
nmat
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July 24, 2011, 05:57:01 PM
 #26

I hate to say it, but at this point in time I trust MtGox more than I trust Windows and my own competence to handle any decent amount of bitcoins.

This.

Well, I don't consider it a valid point for myself, but if bitcoins' userbase grows (i.e. if people that don't know what RSS is join the movement), wallets are much more secure at some server than they are at people's computer. Most people don't know what encryption is, they don't know anything about securing a file and there is at least one type of virus/malware/spyware happily living in their windows computer.

spruce
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July 24, 2011, 06:14:13 PM
 #27


A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development yet.


A paper bitcoin wallet doesn't exist on your home computer. Your money would really only exist in the block chain, which is decentralized. The private key would not be decentralized, of course, assuming you didn't want everyone to be able to spend your coins. Smiley

From what I gather that is a long term storage solution with not so much in usability correct?

Correct, right now.

I believe that version 4 of the client will include the ability to import and export private keys, though.
ctoon6
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July 24, 2011, 06:29:03 PM
 #28


Correct, right now.

I believe that version 4 of the client will include the ability to import and export private keys, though.

they need to hurry up, this is really the only feature i want except encryption and the ability to have the default bitcoin gui connect to a remote server with a wallet file.

CurbsideProphet
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July 24, 2011, 07:34:59 PM
 #29

Storing a decentralized currency on a centralized database (exchange, eWallet, whatever).  How ironic.

Is storing "decentralized currency in a centralized database on yr home computer" somehow different though?

You do have an underlying great idea there, one I would really like to see expanded on and in development.
A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development however. (I'm not a developer so it's not really my place to try pushing ideas too them until I can come up with something they don't know they need. One day I would like to be a part of it somehow even if it's just usability. I'm great with usability.)

Certainly good practice, not keeping all of your eggs in one basket.
Something I should add to the rant if I edit it, thanks for that. Smiley

Yes, it's quite different.  No one else is storing their wallet on my computer, just me.  If my computer is compromised, then my security is compromised.  No one else.  It's decentralized.  MtGox is compromised and thousands of users and their personal information is compromised.  It has already happened.

1ProphetnvP8ju2SxxRvVvyzCtTXDgLPJV
Tasty Champa
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July 24, 2011, 08:47:39 PM
 #30

Storing a decentralized currency on a centralized database (exchange, eWallet, whatever).  How ironic.

Is storing "decentralized currency in a centralized database on yr home computer" somehow different though?

You do have an underlying great idea there, one I would really like to see expanded on and in development.
A method of decentralizing a wallet could be perfect. AFAIK that doesn't exist yet, I don't follow much of the development however. (I'm not a developer so it's not really my place to try pushing ideas too them until I can come up with something they don't know they need. One day I would like to be a part of it somehow even if it's just usability. I'm great with usability.)

Certainly good practice, not keeping all of your eggs in one basket.
Something I should add to the rant if I edit it, thanks for that. Smiley

Yes, it's quite different.  No one else is storing their wallet on my computer, just me.  If my computer is compromised, then my security is compromised.  No one else.  It's decentralized.  MtGox is compromised and thousands of users and their personal information is compromised.  It has already happened.

I don't want to pick apart your argument on semantics, but the basic idea I am trying to convey is safety in numbers.
Indications do point to Mt Gox having been infiltrated days before the sell off, however once they were able to realize what happened, that the threat was indeed real. They did immediately issue a statement that they were in fact compromised. We really were lucky to get that upfront approach so quickly. Most of us did have strong passwords, so that list wouldn't have been completed until months later of 24/7 FPGA cracking, and yes I do agree with you it was fucked up. First time anything like that had ever happened to me, to my knowledge at least.

However, the affect of which raised the entire baseline to the utmost importance of user-base integrity.
That's why I do feel we can begin trusting again. Not an absolute trust, but a healthy & justifiable trust.
Sounds like you have a well thought out approach, the people I'm trying to reach with this thread is those that really feel an unhealthy anxiety about bitcoin in general. I'm telling them that they really don't have to feel that way.
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July 24, 2011, 10:29:54 PM
 #31

Numbers also means a juicier target. There is no safety in numbers in terms of internet security.

^_^
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July 25, 2011, 04:04:12 AM
 #32

I have to be honest and admit that I am delighted that wallet.dat files are being stolen.  It introduces a very valuable element into the mix that one would need to consider when tracking transaction paths.  I hope that it continues at a level which provides some utility over time.

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July 25, 2011, 10:52:54 AM
 #33


Correct, right now.

I believe that version 4 of the client will include the ability to import and export private keys, though.

they need to hurry up, this is really the only feature i want except encryption and the ability to have the default bitcoin gui connect to a remote server with a wallet file.
You might take a look at my pywallet fork ( http://github.com/jackjack-jj/pywallet ), which can import/export keys, even hidden ones, with labels
It's highly based on Joric's work http://github.com/joric/pywallet

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
joepie91
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July 26, 2011, 03:25:25 PM
 #34

Agreed with OP.

I stored most of my funds in mtgox (and some in tradehill). Yes, I'm aware of the past incident. But my friend got all his money/BTC back from mtgox. And it's the biggest exchange, I believe they will recover all your funds for any mistakes/incidents related to their operations.
Evidently not. I was told very clearly that I would not be reimbursed.

Like my post(s)? 12TSXLa5Tu6ag4PNYCwKKSiZsaSCpAjzpu Smiley
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