Chase Bank limits withdrawls, Bans international wires

[theonewhowaskazu]

I'm tempted to create a bet as to whether or not any banks will offer individuals the ability to send funds out of the US via international six months from now.

Also, I'd be willing to take you up on that bet.

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[niothor]

We have seen some members complaining about this, but here is the proof.

http://www.infowars.com <  common , what's nexty Russia Today ?

Go to reddit there are plenty of people that explained to which type of accounts this limits apply and to which not.
Stop the FUD.

[Singlebyte]

We have seen some members complaining about this, but here is the proof.

http://www.infowars.com <  common , what's nexty Russia Today ?

Go to reddit there are plenty of people that explained to which type of accounts this limits apply and to which not.
Stop the FUD.

So you are saying the screenshots of the letters are forged or not real.  Please try to back up YOUR FUD before posting nonsense accusations.  Forum members reported this happening to them weeks before this article came out. Now we can see screenshots of the chase letters.  What additional proof or evidence do you provide that discounts this story?  (Reddit?.....oh please....tell me you are joking)



FYI

--Also the article has now been updated with additional information--

"We are now receiving reports from business partners who we know well that they are being told by their banks that similar regulations to those adopted by Chase are coming within the next few months."

[BurtW]

So you are saying the screenshots of the letters are forged or not real.  Please try to back up YOUR FUD before posting nonsense accusations.  Forum members reported this happening to them weeks before this article came out. Now we can see screenshots of the chase letters.  What additional proof or evidence do you provide that discounts this story?



FYI

--Also the article has now been updated with additional information--

"We are now receiving reports from business partners who we know well that they are being told by their banks that similar regulations to those adopted by Chase are coming within the next few months."

Yes, it is happening.
Yes, they are sending out letters.
Yes, people are getting the letters.

Why?

If you want to be able to go over the limit and/or send the wires then you must upgrade to a more expensive account.

The FUD is all the speculation beyond that.

[darkmule]

Now we can see screenshots of the chase letters.

Yes, and some of us can actually read them.

The first shot says the account of the person who received the letter can no longer do wire transfers.

The second shot says "business SAVINGS accounts" will no longer be able to do wire transfers.  Other accounts, presumably with higher fees, can continue to do them.

So a bank is squeezing its customers and raising its fees.  It sucks but is far from the apocalypse.

[Carlton Banks]

We have seen some members complaining about this, but here is the proof.

http://www.infowars.com <  common , what's nexty Russia Today ?

Go to reddit there are plenty of people that explained to which type of accounts this limits apply and to which not.
Stop the FUD.

Not all FUD is false. FUD is not synonymous with untrue. I refuse to observe what InfoWars peddles, because it's always FUD, but at least some of what they come out with is true (and then the presenter starts crying and asking what all our children will say in 20 years when everyone's a robot etc).

Reddit, on the other hand, is not what it used to be. Similarly to not all FUD being false, "someone on reddit said it" is not necessarily reliably true. Reddit had a reputation for people telling uncommon truths, about 5 years ago. Now, they have Arnold Schwarzenegger posting training tips.

[Singlebyte]

The FUD is all the speculation beyond that.

Makes sense BurtW. 


Speculating on the "reasons" for these policy changes is anyone's guess.  Like I posted in the OP, let the speculation begin.

I haven't posted my thoughts on the subject yet.  But I do tend to believe there are (more) (economic) serious issues that we haven't even heard of yet.  I believe the government has something to do with Chase's updated policy.  If you remember the economic crisis of 2008, there was a lot of behind the scenes meddling with banks like Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley by the US government. We didn't hear about this till a few years later.  I think more meddling is in the works.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Yes, it is happening.
Yes, they are sending out letters.
Yes, people are getting the letters.

Why?

If you want to be able to go over the limit and/or send the wires then you must upgrade to a more expensive account.

The FUD is all the speculation beyond that.

Exactly.

People need to study history of capital controls, why they come about, and how they are executed.

When real capital controls come, they will not send anyone a nice warning letter beforehand.  They will impose them overnight by executive decree, simultaneously across the entire system, not just one bank.

The United States is actually one of the biggest tax havens in the world (http://www.moneynews.com/Kleinfeld/tax-haven-US-investor/2013/07/08/id/513734).  Any hint at capital controls would kill that gold-laying goose immediately.  It is not a move that makes sense for USG to do at this time, especially given that the rest of the world is still accepting limitless USD conjured out of thin air in exchange for real products.  Capital controls are typically imposed to control the flow of foreign/hard currency, not the domestic currency issued by the government.  In fact, the USG wants foreign bagholders to receive millions of wires of worthless USDs, for as long as posssible, as long as those USD don't return to the domestic market to cause inflation.

[allthingsluxury]

Chase would not risk losing business in this manner unless they know other banks will be moving in this direction as well. Capital controls are never good. Not a great sign.

[Carlton Banks]

Chase would not risk losing business in this manner unless they know other banks will be moving in this direction as well.

The indications are that that's exactly what's happening, other consumer banks are falling in behind JPM Chase. You can pay fees for a premium account, or course. Whats gets me is you can't even receive international payments with a standard account, those that can't pay are going to be using Western Union, MoneyGram and our beloved BTC.

[gizmoh]

Many small banks are following:
http://www.vystarcu.org/home/news/current/intwires

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Outgoing International Wires Discontinued October 1, 2013

Beginning October 1, 2013, VyStar Credit Union will no longer accept and process outgoing international wire transfers.

Please Note: All incoming international wires and all domestic wires (in U.S. currency to U.S. financial institutions) are not affected by this change and will still be accepted.

We regret having to make this change; however, it is in response to increased regulation and in a cooperative effort to protect the liability of your credit union and all its members. Our action to no longer process outgoing international wire transfers is a necessary step to reduce risk.




https://www.uhcu.org/Site-Alerts/Member-Notification

International Wire Discontinuation Information
Effective October 19, 2013, United Heritage Credit Union will no longer provide wire transfer services (remittances) to locations outside the United States.

United Heritage Credit Union’s decision to discontinue outgoing international wire services is resultant from a new consumer protection regulation. United Heritage Credit Union will be able to service your international wire transfer needs until October 19, 2013 and we recommend that you use this time to research alternative means to send funds to foreign locations. Companies providing international wire services include Western Union® Consumer and Western Union® Business Solutions Online FX. Please visit westernunion.com for more details. Please review their information to determine what best suits your international wire needs.

If you have any questions, please stop by a United Heritage branch or call our Telephone Service Center at 512.435.4545, 903.597.7484 or 800.531.2328 during normal business hours.


..resultant from a new consumer protection regulation..
It usually starts like that when gov. imposes control on your money with protection regulation..

[countryfree]

Many small banks are following:
http://www.vystarcu.org/home/news/current/intwires

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Outgoing International Wires Discontinued October 1, 2013

Beginning October 1, 2013, VyStar Credit Union will no longer accept and process outgoing international wire transfers.

Please Note: All incoming international wires and all domestic wires (in U.S. currency to U.S. financial institutions) are not affected by this change and will still be accepted.

We regret having to make this change; however, it is in response to increased regulation and in a cooperative effort to protect the liability of your credit union and all its members. Our action to no longer process outgoing international wire transfers is a necessary step to reduce risk.




https://www.uhcu.org/Site-Alerts/Member-Notification

International Wire Discontinuation Information
Effective October 19, 2013, United Heritage Credit Union will no longer provide wire transfer services (remittances) to locations outside the United States.

United Heritage Credit Union’s decision to discontinue outgoing international wire services is resultant from a new consumer protection regulation. United Heritage Credit Union will be able to service your international wire transfer needs until October 19, 2013 and we recommend that you use this time to research alternative means to send funds to foreign locations. Companies providing international wire services include Western Union® Consumer and Western Union® Business Solutions Online FX. Please visit westernunion.com for more details. Please review their information to determine what best suits your international wire needs.

If you have any questions, please stop by a United Heritage branch or call our Telephone Service Center at 512.435.4545, 903.597.7484 or 800.531.2328 during normal business hours.


..resultant from a new consumer protection regulation..
It usually starts like that when gov. imposes control on your money with protection regulation..

Did I miss something? I wasn't aware of anything like that.
I guess we need a lawyer here. What has changed? If there's new regulation, it's got to be somewhere.

[justusranvier]

If there's new regulation, it's got to be somewhere.

Apparently it's a provision of Dodd-Frank.

[countryfree]

Positive information here:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/10/17/jpmorgan-chase-denies-new-capital-controls-on-accounts/

Our fears may be unfounded.

[justusranvier]

Our fears may be unfounded.

We didn't just imagine small banks and credit unions eliminating international wires entirely.

[tvbcof]

Positive information here:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/10/17/jpmorgan-chase-denies-new-capital-controls-on-accounts/

Our fears may be unfounded.

From the article:

  "Chase said it is not exerting new capital controls on customer accounts."

I would say that that is probably true.  What is happening is that regulatory bodies are 'exerting new capital controls' on people through financial institutions and by increasing certain pressures.  Whether this is by accident or design is a legitimate question, but it is capital control, it is working, and the end effect is certainly being felt.

I'm feeling it mightily right now since my wire from Mt. Gox has been held up for several months, and in order to capitalize on my BTC speculation I am being pressured to give up multiple high quality copies of sensitive identity documents to parties who I cannot fully trust.

In my case I actually WANT my transactions to be monitored and analyzed because my activity in Bitcoin-land is entirely legal and I have every intention of declaring my profits legally.  (It would be retarded to give the authorities an excuse to fuck me by not following the law to the letter, but that's just my opinion.)  Sending money through my bank who has 'vetted' me fully and reports activity to enforcement bodies should be perfectly sufficient to preclude both identity and reporting fraud.  Yet intermediaries are still being pressured to hold duplicate copies of my dox.  I can see no reason for it other than flat out harassment by regulators and/or efforts to influence capital flows.

BTW, I consider my identity dox themselves to be worth tens of $k because that would probably be what it would cost me if they were released into the wild over a life-time of fighting the issues that would be likely to crop up.  I've sent my dox to Mt. Gox only.  I would much rather have not sent them to anyone, but if they get ripped off now, I will know for certain that Mt. Gox is at fault...for whatever good that might do...

[aigeezer]

The Daily Reckoning newsletter dated Oct. 17 cites Simon Black (sovereign man) as their source for the story. I can't yet find it on Black's site though. This may be echo chamber propagation of something minor (or not).
Some of their details seem different from what is reported so far in this thread.

""These government agencies with the catchy, high-sounding names," writes the Sovereign Man's Simon Black, "are always the most dangerous. After all, it was the 'Committee for Public Safety' that was responsible for wanton genocide during the post-revolution Reign of Terror in France.

"Recently, the CFPB 'encouraged' retail banks in the Land of the Free to 'help' their customers regarding international wire transfers. And by 'help,' they mean prohibit."

Mr. Black is referring to letters sent by JPMorgan Chase's to its customers. Effective Nov. 17, depositors who bank with them won't be able to send international money wires, nor will they be able to withdraw more than $50,000 of their money in cash per statement cycle.

---- photo of Chase letter appeared here ----

"This is the very nature of capital controls," slams Black, "restricting the free flow of capital across borders until it is trapped inside the country and forcibly denominated in a rapidly devaluing currency."

It's not only Chase that's imposing wire transfer restrictions. HSBC is preventing its depositors from wiring money to their accounts overseas. That is, if Americans still have bank accounts overseas. In 2010, the Foreign Tax Compliance Act or FATCA was slipped into a last-minute piece of legislation -- the HIRE Act. It forces foreign banks to follow IRS reporting requirements for any American depositors. In response, most foreign banks are simply not letting Americans open accounts with them because it's not worth the trouble."

[steeev]

watching from the UK, in the last week or so, China has made a statement about a 'De-Americanised' world, the debt limit has been raised, Obamacare continues, there is talk of Obamacare fines being deducted from bank accounts, an  EBT card 'glitch' occurred, the US credit rating is in question, this Chase thing is about to kick in, and the EU has just announced it's going to use the yuan to trade... lots of things in a quick succession seem to be happening...

[tvbcof]

watching from the UK, in the last week or so, China has made a statement about a 'De-Americanised' world, the debt limit has been raised, Obamacare continues, there is talk of Obamacare fines being deducted from bank accounts, an  EBT card 'glitch' occurred, the US credit rating is in question, this Chase thing is about to kick in, and the EU has just announced it's going to use the yuan to trade... lots of things in a quick succession seem to be happening...

Yup.  Denial (which is rife here even on bitcointalk.org forum) could turn to outright panic in about one day under the right set of circumstances.  More likely, though, things will take the form of the boiling frog if the management of perception engineering is any good.

[solex]

"We are now receiving reports from business partners who we know well that they are being told by their banks that similar regulations to those adopted by Chase are coming within the next few months."[/i]

It is this type of crap which makes me an even bigger Bitcoin believer (which I didn't think was possible). Fiat is in its death throes - Bitcoin is the future!