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Author Topic: Should altcoins model gold? Are we all goldbugs?  (Read 1009 times)
AnonyMint
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October 17, 2013, 12:03:35 AM
 #1

I need to hear many opinions, so I can get a feel for the mindsets of Bitcoiners. Can you please read the following linked discussion and then lay it on me. I will try not to debate anyone in this thread and just listen. Please don't be shy, all opinions (even ones I think are ignorant) are very helpful when doing a marketing analysis. Because at the end of the day, it is what you all think that matters, not what I think.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195275.msg3348804#msg3348804
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195275.msg3350891#msg3350891
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195275.msg3347169#msg3347169

I appreciate very much every one who takes time to share their thoughts here. This will be a very valuable resource if many people will write something in this thread.

Here is a poll for you to express your opinion with one-click:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311668.0

But the poll won't be as reassuring for me (and the others planning an altcoin), as reading your thoughts, because then we can gleam more about your thought process on the matter.

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AnonyMint
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October 17, 2013, 06:51:16 AM
 #2

Bump. Etlase2 understands well:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195275.msg3354060#msg3354060

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 07:30:35 AM
 #3

...But deflationary model is so appealing to weak souls of us speculators ! Smiley
We love it, when after some time passes and
 money in our pocket doubles or triples or...multiplies many-many times !

What Do You have to offer us instead of deflation's sin, dear AM ?!

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
AnonyMint
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October 17, 2013, 07:44:09 AM
 #4

Answering because I was asked to in the prior post.

The value is not rising because of money supply deflation, because in fact Bitcoin money supply is still inflating at roughly 11%.

Rather it is the demand for the currency is outstripping the 11% rise in supply. Do you really think the demand for a digital currency that was superior to Bitcoin in every way, would not also rise much more than any small perpetual debasement needed to keep the currency decentralized and viable long-term.

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 07:55:41 AM
 #5

I am a dolt, U know that, dear AM...
So i can not think by definition.

Still U have to propose the alternative cheese
 in the speculator's trap ?
I smell no cheese so far... Wink

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 08:13:22 AM
 #6

Excellent point and very well understood. Apologies we were not able to reach mutual comprehension in the past and it was very frustrating. Hopefully you understand my theories now.

Do they speculate on their coming tax avoidance convictions and jail time?

Someone would have to be crazy to write s/w that prematurely* destroyed the Bitcoin honeypot, they will surely have an unpleasant life thereafter.

* The lack of debasement after 2024 or 2033, indicates it is designed to be destroyed (or morphed into a centrally controlled digital currency), but not until after hoodwinking all those freedom lovers and goldbugs into mixing their wealth with illegal activity, not declaring capital gains, using an asset as a currency without declaring each transaction as a capital gain, etc..

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 08:17:15 AM
 #7

Hmm...can your new coin have embedded faucet
 for freely helicoptering coins into adepts'
 wallets ?
 for absolutely free that is...
------------

Quote
Do they speculate on their coming tax avoidance convictions and jail time?
Can they speculate on future end of taxation and liquidation of all jails ?!
 Roll Eyes
 

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 08:35:41 AM
 #8

System-wide mix-net anonymity along with sourcing small coins seems like the only solution that really works:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286536.msg3347932#msg3347932

Meanwhile most everyone is laying their tracks in public (even when they use a coin mixer) so it will be easier to prosecute.

Faucets redistribute coins away from you to anybody who can visit a site.

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 08:51:10 AM
 #9

..or from big premined bounty address to average poor adept of new shiny XCoin,
U will need cheese for us...
Look at 2 inflationary altcoins we have,
they almost failed on market.
Coz there was no cheese in the trap.

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 09:00:10 AM
 #10

Oic. I thought you were suggesting faucets as a way to anonymize ownership of your coins.

Isn't mining from PCs (i.e. no advantage for GPUs and ASICs) with a initial high rate of debasement a cheese?

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 09:21:22 AM
 #11

One can make almost purely PoS coin, like
 NVC will be when transition to new model   will be fully done.
then no waste of resources for PoW mining +
 helicoptering of free cheese (coins) can attract fanatics of new blessed TrueCoin Wink

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 09:48:02 AM
 #12

Oic, everything for free, including mining, is what Bitcoiners want?

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 10:37:09 AM
 #13

mmm...bitcoiners can want whatever they hate or like LoL...it does not matter for U...

U perhaps want to make new better coin/fork, no ?
There is some demand for coins w/o PoW,
at least theoretically this idea is very good one.
Also U did not want to become a goldbug , again.So, no coin supply diminishing with time is a must.
Redesign PoS of NVC or adopt some newer PoS-design from wiki, then U will get really innovative "fork" of dream...
----------------------
also nothing is for fREE...
With PoS-only coin every user goes in some troubles for running purse even w/o
 mining involved.

Ask cunicula or Meni Rosenfeld, they will reinvent newer super PoS-scheme for U specially, they are very good at it.

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
AnonyMint
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October 17, 2013, 11:54:41 AM
 #14

Assuming PoW can be mined effectively from your PC, is the electricity cost the only reason you prefer PoS?

And/or is it because you can mine more coins from your share without needing a powerful PC?

Why do you not like a coin with new coins created often (greater inflation than gold)?

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
 #15

PoW burns ones GPU/CPU making them low-value item after some time of PoW mining.

PoS mining is good for many people, who will never buy stuff/learn how to mine PoW etc...
Thus PoS only coin can have more adepts.
_____________
i , personally like inflation of 1-3% per year, not more...others can like other rate, of course

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 01:29:19 PM
 #16

Can you cite any source on degradation of a CPU or GPU's properties due to PoW?

I thought that a CPU would not degrade due to PoW.

Indeed setup of mining in Bitcoin is beyond most people, but what if PoW was easy as download and run?

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Ukigo
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October 17, 2013, 02:51:27 PM
 #17

well for GPU : they even literally burn sometimes...Dig the forums...
CPU, yes they maybe not degrade that much, although nothing useful they do , while mining PoW forks IMHO.
----------------------
I burried hopes on bitcoin-likes.
They won't be the world's next generation money.

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
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October 17, 2013, 02:54:45 PM
 #18

That is helpful feedback. Indeed CPUs are not effective with PoW as of now. I had hoped to change that, but there is no proof I could, just an algorithmic idea. I can imagine GPU rigs overheating and components such as capacitors degrading.

And thus agreed as of now PoW is off limits to the users-at-large.

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October 17, 2013, 03:21:55 PM
 #19

The form of "CPU mining" described at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining is turning out to be surprisingly popular, maybe partly because it is not about how many zombies you have in your botnet nor even how many cores your machine has... (A Raspberry Pi would work just fine...)

Basically it is not about sheer power, especially not calculations that can be done by masses of parallel processors. Instead it is all about making decisions, handling branches and changes of situation, the kind of stuff CPUs, especially CPUs with a human behind them adjusting their tactics and strategies, are best at; so running a million zombies would take too much human intervention.

-MarkM-

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October 17, 2013, 03:32:32 PM
 #20

Oic, everything for free, including mining, is what Bitcoiners want?

Yes, for me Smiley
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