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Author Topic: Why the loss of confidence in litecoin?  (Read 13698 times)
jubalix
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October 19, 2013, 07:32:36 PM
 #81

name just one better alt coin with his own network which is evenly distributed to ppl

pls don`t say XPM which is ruled by 50+ % by botnets and ppl having power to abuse big server clouds for free (who want a coin which is mined by thief?)

also working scrypt fpga will be out in ~2 months

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October 19, 2013, 07:40:14 PM
 #82


Sure. The idea that something, perhaps many things co-existing with Bitcoin is one I share. But for it to be LTC, no thanks.

OK, so some benefit may be there.
What is the cost of Litecoin's existence that folks would see it ended?


It doesn't need to end, I just don't like how it's currently treated compared to some other coins out there. It's really more of a community issue. I see so many people parading around with LTC like it's so special when there's other coins doing it or easily more; and yet they are so vile about it when you mention them. Makes you gain a vendetta about the coin.

I agree.  And all Litecoin folks should hear what you just wrote.
Truly this is probably true of all of the coins, including Bitcoin.  
What people have, they tend to have some pride in, it helps to justify the choice to one's self.

However...

There is certainly some socialisation needed among our community.  We are a tiny tiny community compared to where we want to be, and yet we compete with each other.  This is really pretty silly behavior and entirely unnecessary.  It just makes us look bad.

I mint silver and gold.  I celebrate when another minter or coin designer or anything similar comes along.  It is excellent, I hope for folks I can learn from and share stories with that can understand what it is all about.  Sometimes I think what they are doing is not great, but I am still happy they are doing it and I try to help.  If there is something I need to correct that could be embarrassing for them and it can possibly be done privately, then it should be done in private.  Since I am human I sometimes fail at this effort and I regret that and learn from it.  

We tend to be judgmental, but we ought to be helping each other, the opposition is large and organized and far more powerful than we even with all our hubris and perfect codebases.  When we see something wrong, we need to pitch in and help.  Problem identification is more common than problem fixing and though necessary, it is far less useful.

I'm not a big Litecoin guy, but I also don't want to see it torn down.  There are many alternatives, LTC is just one of them and certainly we can all learn to work together better over time.  Say nice things about each other more often, it is good for you, and good for them.

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October 19, 2013, 07:57:46 PM
 #83

I have LTC but it's a hedge against something unforseen happening to Bitcoin.
Give me one single example of something bad which might happen to affect Bitcoin but not affect neither Litecoin nor cryptography in general.
(hint: is sha is broken, we would have much bigger problems than Bitcoin)


You seem to be very hostile to Litecoin for some reason.

Most of my experiences with investing not just in cryptos but also in the "real" world has taught me that you should never assume to have so much understanding of something that you place 100% faith in your own convictions, as being pompous nearly always costs you money. This is why I used the word unforseen. It appears you can't grasp the concept.

It's more of an ideology I notice some people have, and others don't... I'm sure you are right about everything though. Carry on.
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October 19, 2013, 08:40:03 PM
 #84

IMO, it's all temporary burnout due to Mt Gox's unfulfilled stated ambitions.

Seems to me it makes a perfect little sidekick for BTC, I see buying coffee or article subscriptions or MP3s with LTC, fast(er) microtransactions. There's always going to be "disputed territory" between the two of them, but I think there's stuff that BTC doesn't necessarily want to bend itself over backwards to accommodate, that litecoin will.


BTW "7950s in milkcrates" jab, hah, took only 6 months to be a snob about it. At last peak in spring, with all the transaction volume that entailed, most of BTC was running on that kind of thing, apart from the 5 people that got B1 Avalons by then.


Anyway, I'd think it would be trading at 7 or 8 bucks by now if the Mt Gox stupidity had not ensnared it. It probably will be about there a month after the first Gox bubble and crash, or Gox claim no way no never no how on LTC, and release it from the bonds of uncertainty.


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Flash

Litecoin is NOT for microtransactions. If you want microtransactions you either want an offchain tx processor or another alt coin. For example, Bitcoin is a good choice for microtransactions, which is one of the reasons for blockchain bloat. Some developers believe Bitcoin would be better off with fee rules that discourages wasteful bloat, which would thereby allow delaying an increase in maximum block size for several years. Keep Bitcoin Free expresses similar ideas, although we Litecoin do not agree with their proposed solution where people are told to use offchain processors. Litecoin's solution can be improved further where it can be adapted into a market driven floating-fee mechanism that penalizes inefficient uses of the blockchain in a similar manner to today's anti-spam rule.


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October 19, 2013, 08:43:38 PM
 #85

I have LTC but it's a hedge against something unforseen happening to Bitcoin.
Give me one single example of something bad which might happen to affect Bitcoin but not affect neither Litecoin nor cryptography in general.
(hint: is sha is broken, we would have much bigger problems than Bitcoin)


You seem to be very hostile to Litecoin for some reason.

Most of my experiences with investing not just in cryptos but also in the "real" world has taught me that you should never assume to have so much understanding of something that you place 100% faith in your own convictions, as being pompous nearly always costs you money. This is why I used the word unforseen. It appears you can't grasp the concept.

It's more of an ideology I notice some people have, and others don't... I'm sure you are right about everything though. Carry on.
Problem is that so far I've never seen any single argument in favous specifically of litecoin.
(as opposite as "in favour of any random alternative")

Sorry if I'm being harsh, and I appreciate you're not being hostile, thanks : )

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October 19, 2013, 10:18:25 PM
 #86

Problem is that so far I've never seen any single argument in favous specifically of litecoin.
(as opposite as "in favour of any random alternative")

Sorry if I'm being harsh, and I appreciate you're not being hostile, thanks : )


Sure, I guess I wasn't making an argument suggesting Litecoin as the only hedge or the white knight of alts, just that it is still a hedge, and IMO this hasn't changed yet despite the price plummeting.

I would recommend anyone to always hold a bag of coins as opposed to a single one.
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October 20, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
 #87

Maybe this is overly simplistic and the point has already been made, but it seems to me the key thing for any alt coin is its ecosystem, and how much has been set up for people to DO with it once they have it.  This is consistent with the Mt. Gox idea, LTC was going up because its ecosystem was about to get a lot better with (at the time at least) the addition of the leading exchange. 

Bitcoin is obviously king here, but given LTCs relatively early start I'm surprised it is not doing better.  There don't seem to be any LTC faucets on par with dailybitcoins nor any marketplaces or pay per click sites (abitback offers a LTC option but you need a huge amount of points, and it's a less good deal than BTC or USD).  I thought LTC would get a boost as ASICs forced people out of BTC mining, and maybe that has also hurt it, those miners dump the LTC (since there isn't as much to do with it) for BTC rather than helped it.

I think sites such as dicenow that feature both LTC and BTC may help some, but it seems development of sites that use litecoin haven't really surpassed the other alt coins despite its broader acceptance and lead time.
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October 20, 2013, 12:39:52 AM
 #88

I can't be bothered to waste my time beating this dead horse for the 100th time to fools who can't even be bothered to do their own research and have been wrong for coming on 2 years straight so i'll just repost something I said a while back:

Another BTC 'cultist' who has given horrible advice. Thats corpse number 1345 on the list of roadkill who have been doubting LTC since March 2012 and been dead wrong every day  Grin

These guys are exactly like the brainless gold bugs who just chant the same BS all day just to protect their own little bubble of wealth.

Newsflash: cutting edge technologies have twists and turns that no-one can predict perfectly. First to market doesn't usually mean jack in todays fast paced, low barrier to entry tech industries.

Competition is healthy and in my opinion the crypto-currency sector must have several actors in it for it to be succesful in the real world. If not the idea is simply not as great as we believe and we are all wasting our time here..

EDIT: I own gold, silver, btc and ltc so I am not biased.

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October 20, 2013, 12:53:53 AM
 #89

My explanation is that the fall in prices is due to so many people mining litecoins that don't really want them -- so they sell them.

There are a lot of miners out there that are mining litecoins because they have GPU rigs that can no longer mine bitcoins.  You see this advice all over the forums, "Use your GPU to mine litecoins, and then trade them for bitcoins."

I think this is spot on. Most only mined Litecoin to exchange for Bitcoin at some unknown future date. This of course is unsustainable.

Exactly. All these GPU rigs and nothing to do with them but mine the altcoin with the most market depth. This, and the fact that there is absolutely nothing to do with your litecoins (except sell them for bitcoins as you watch their value slowly but surely continue to tumble downwards).
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October 20, 2013, 12:54:28 AM
 #90

If there were a 'loss of confidence' in litecoin I would expect difficulty to be dropping. If anything the current state of events would indicate stronger than ever confidence in Litecoin. Consider this: Many people for a long while have only mined litecoin to convert to btc. With the exchange rates sinking there is still no shortage of hash power for litecoin.

Bitcoin is doing well now and that is great for not just bitcoin but all cryptocurrency.
Last i checked the prices of Litecoin vs. US Dollar have changed around 2-3%.
That is fairly small or close to even and correlates with the difficulty holding up.

Most large gpu mining is done for profit and sale of the coins for btc.  If those who operated the farms wanted to just "baghold" litecoin or other alts for a long term investment it would be far cheaper and easier to just buy the Litecoin or other coin and sit on it.

When you see the difficulty of Litecoin drop lower and stay there I think you can say people have lost confidence. Not now.

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October 20, 2013, 01:03:06 AM
 #91

It's not that bad.

I have fond memories of buying litecoin at BTC0,0022. Smiley

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October 20, 2013, 01:06:20 AM
 #92

This, and the fact that there is absolutely nothing to do with your litecoins (except sell them for bitcoins as you watch their value slowly but surely continue to tumble downwards).

There's a number of places to spend LTC.  Do you even Google, bro?
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October 20, 2013, 01:19:48 AM
 #93

This, and the fact that there is absolutely nothing to do with your litecoins (except sell them for bitcoins as you watch their value slowly but surely continue to tumble downwards).

There's a number of places to spend LTC.  Do you even Google, bro?

lol, that's a really impressive list.  Roll Eyes

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October 20, 2013, 01:32:25 AM
 #94

There's a number of places to spend LTC.  Do you even Google, bro?

lol, that's a really impressive list.  Roll Eyes

Looks like the size of the list of places that accepted bitcoin 2 years ago.  Litecoin right now reminds me of when I first got into bitcoin.   It's only 1/2 way to the first block reward halving and the first generation of dedicated scrypt mining hardware is just around the corner.  I believe there is value in having a "digital silver" to trade, and I think litecoin is the best secondary chain BECAUSE it isn't that different from bitcoin.  The mining algorithm separates the mining economy from bitcoin (and the current ASIC market) and I consider that to be positive as well.  Long live the queen!  Smiley

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October 20, 2013, 02:03:13 AM
 #95

IMO, it's all temporary burnout due to Mt Gox's unfulfilled stated ambitions.

Seems to me it makes a perfect little sidekick for BTC, I see buying coffee or article subscriptions or MP3s with LTC, fast(er) microtransactions. There's always going to be "disputed territory" between the two of them, but I think there's stuff that BTC doesn't necessarily want to bend itself over backwards to accommodate, that litecoin will.


BTW "7950s in milkcrates" jab, hah, took only 6 months to be a snob about it. At last peak in spring, with all the transaction volume that entailed, most of BTC was running on that kind of thing, apart from the 5 people that got B1 Avalons by then.


Anyway, I'd think it would be trading at 7 or 8 bucks by now if the Mt Gox stupidity had not ensnared it. It probably will be about there a month after the first Gox bubble and crash, or Gox claim no way no never no how on LTC, and release it from the bonds of uncertainty.


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Flash

Litecoin is NOT for microtransactions. If you want microtransactions you either want an offchain tx processor or another alt coin.

Agree - and that other altcoin is Devcoin, which is perfect for microtransactions. Devcoin was deliberately developed with the decimal place moved (so 50000 coins generated each time instead of 50), and the transaction fee set to just 1 DVC. That makes the transaction fee $0.0000561, which is practically nothing, whereas Litecoin's transaction fee is a comparatively hefty $0.10.

It's interesting to compare the two coins - Devcoin was launched in August 2011 and Litecoin was launched in October 2011 - so they are near siblings, but they've taken completely different approaches.

The Devcoin community has focused on trying to reward doers (developers, writers and so on). Devcoin now owns an asset (Devtome) which is monetised with bitcoin advertising and Amazon affiliate promotions, which means hopefully a steady stream of dollars earned which then get converted into bitcoins and then devcoins. On the spending side, you can buy amazon vouchers for devcoin. The Devcoin community has mostly ignored the speculative element, apart from moaning about it from time to time.

The Litecoin community seems to have spent an inordinate amount of energy on MtGox acceptance - maybe because they see speculation against the dollar as a way to acceptance.

The speculative element can be destructive - IMO, having lots of alt-coins traded solely against Litecoin on Cryptsy is one the main reasons for the price dropping. Think - all those alt-coin miners really want to cash out into BTC. But Cryptsy forces them to buy Litecoins, which they then immediately sell for bitcoins. Cryptsy takes two sets of transaction fees, but Litecoin suffers a persistent selling pressure that wouldn't exist of the altcoin miners could trade directly into Bitcoin. Back in June there were maybe 4 altcoins being traded for litecoin, and now it's about 20 - and you can see the effect.

If the Litecoin community can step away from all the speculative element, and find a true raison d'etre (and it's not microtransactions, nor is it about ways of fixing parts of the crypto-economy that bitcoin neglects, such as ways to earn coins apart from mining - Devcoin has bagged both those elements). It has to be something else, something unique that no-one is offering.

(Disclosure: I hold some litecoins, just wanted some, "just in case")

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October 20, 2013, 09:38:47 AM
 #96

Bitcoin is moving beyond a hobby, litecoiners (bagholders) think 7950's in milk crates is ideal infrastructure for the economy. Dump this rubbish for bitcoins while you still have the option.

Aren't those the same guys that backed bitcoin from the beginning till very recently...

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October 20, 2013, 09:44:37 AM
 #97

If there were a 'loss of confidence' in litecoin I would expect difficulty to be dropping. If anything the current state of events would indicate stronger than ever confidence in Litecoin. Consider this: Many people for a long while have only mined litecoin to convert to btc. With the exchange rates sinking there is still no shortage of hash power for litecoin.

Bitcoin is doing well now and that is great for not just bitcoin but all cryptocurrency.
Last i checked the prices of Litecoin vs. US Dollar have changed around 2-3%.
That is fairly small or close to even and correlates with the difficulty holding up.

Most large gpu mining is done for profit and sale of the coins for btc.  If those who operated the farms wanted to just "baghold" litecoin or other alts for a long term investment it would be far cheaper and easier to just buy the Litecoin or other coin and sit on it.

When you see the difficulty of Litecoin drop lower and stay there I think you can say people have lost confidence. Not now.

Break it down for me - crypto for dummies  Grin

It doesn't drop much because there is not much option to support large GPU mining operations. They can't mine BTC, they have to mine LTC as long as they can just recover the electricity cost.

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October 20, 2013, 01:17:42 PM
 #98

When I was saying "microtransactions" I was meaning it in the real world sense of 25c to $5 ish.. not the bitdust, and 0.001c a click sense. I was also under the impression that the high LTC tx fee was supposedly temporary... but could be like all those quick hacked up bits of "glue" in COBOL the banks are still running 30 years later Cheesy

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October 20, 2013, 01:27:13 PM
 #99

Bitcoin is moving beyond a hobby, litecoiners (bagholders) think 7950's in milk crates is ideal infrastructure for the economy. Dump this rubbish for bitcoins while you still have the option.

Aren't those the same guys that backed bitcoin from the beginning till very recently...
no, we did not think 7950's was ideal. else we would not have made acis miners...

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October 20, 2013, 05:21:30 PM
 #100

Bitcoin is moving beyond a hobby, litecoiners (bagholders) think 7950's in milk crates is ideal infrastructure for the economy. Dump this rubbish for bitcoins while you still have the option.

Aren't those the same guys that backed bitcoin from the beginning till very recently...

GPUs were used during the early bootstrapping stage, because that was the best available. They are no longer needed.


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