A long post about a Series 2, PAPERSAFE SATOSHI NOTE #100

[DaveF]

So it all begins back on Feb 2nd 2016.
BG4 posts and auction for the 2016 PaperSafe , Satoshi Note #000100 , BLOCKCHAIN MINING series, Face Value 250000.00 bits ---1/4BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1350618.0

Bidding is intense and in the end I won (yeah me way to go)

I decided to do something nice and since there was a bidder after the end I decided to let it run for another 45 minutes and anything above my bid would be doubled with 1/2 going to BG4 and 1/2 going to the red cross.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1350618.msg13844929#msg13844929

Nobody loved the red cross so I got to keep it and paid the next morning.
Then the fun begins.....
Auction ended on the 11th, I paid on the 12th and BG4 shipped on the 13th.
I'm in NY BG4 was in NJ (might still be there I don't know)
On the 19th my brain said "Hey Dave, that PaperSafe never came in, you should track it." Never being one to ignore my brain (OK that's I lie I ignore it all the time) but anyway, I tracked it.

And then sent this PM (more or less) to BG4:
Looks like it went from NJ to PA to MA and then nowhere  
Could you swing by your PO and ask them if they have any more info?

He then spent a lot of time over the next few weeks harassing the post office as to where it was.
Tracking had stopped in MA and nothing was happening.

At some point he got a letter saying (more or less).
Yup, it's lost, if we find it we will deliver it. Don't call us, we'll call you. Thank you from USPS

A week or so later BG4 then went and made a star note (just like the US mint) and shipped it to me with no issues.
And the story ended.....
Till this Monday.....
When BG4 got a PM from me.....

Telling him that yes, 2 years and 1 month later the Post Office dropped off the box with the original PaperSafe in it.
No I'm sorry. No here you go this tracking # is so old we can't scan it. Nothing, just dropped in the bin up front at my office with the mailman telling the office manager "here you go". Just like he always does, just drop, polite comment and leave. The box was crushed somewhat and the tracking number was blacked out with sharpie. But since I get a lot of stuff shipped here and some is just reshipment stuff I didn't think much about it. I have gotten a lot worse looking boxes over the years.

So the moral(s) of the story.
1) Insure everything you ship.
2) Good things come to those who wait.

Now the questions are. Do I keep both because, lets face it, it's an interesting story? Or do I set up a REALLY high priced auction and start the bidding at what I paid back in 2016 BTC0.47? Or do I do something else?

Any opinions?




-Dave

[krogothmanhattan]

The Shitoffice are the worst ....but if I have no other choice I always send registered. Worth the extra Satoshi IMO so shit like this doesnt happen. And yes they have "lost" my registered mail too

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Sounds like BG4 took good care of you; this is really between you and BG4 reach out and see what he thinks is fair. Amazed the lost note even showed up. Registered mail is the way to go definitely.

[DaveF]

Sounds like BG4 took good care of you; this is really between you and BG4 reach out and see what he thinks is fair. Amazed the lost note even showed up. Registered mail is the way to go definitely.

Already did, he is in the loop.

-Dave

[BG4]

The first note of my second series..... Vanishes without a trace....  

What was I suppose to do....  That is why I created the STAR NOTE...  

 FYI.. there is only ONE STAR NOTE in the wild...

plus both of these notes are UV embellished...

So ...  As long as they are kept together.  #100 and #100* would be one of the rarest 1 of 1 sets I have produced , By Accident.

Should make for an interesting story in the years to come.....

BG4

[Lesbian Cow]

Have you considered auctioning them as a pair?

[SaltySpitoon]

Thats really cool that they actually brought it to you after losing it. Not that it shouldn't be standard protocol, but I have a feeling there is a bin somewhere for packages that have fallen off the radar, or conveyor belt, years previous only to be found later on. Where once in the bin, it disappears again, but permanently.

On this note:

-Snip-
So the moral(s) of the story.
1) Insure everything you ship.
2) Good things come to those who wait.

Has anyone actually ever been able to claim insurance on a lost crypto collectable? I've heard nothing but horror stories from serious bullion collectors who have lost multi thousand dollar graded coins, and they were only refunded the spot value of the metal because they couldn't adequately prove numismatic value, even with comparable on well known retailer's sites.

[DaveF]

Thats really cool that they actually brought it to you after losing it. Not that it shouldn't be standard protocol, but I have a feeling there is a bin somewhere for packages that have fallen off the radar, or conveyor belt, years previous only to be found later on. Where once in the bin, it disappears again, but permanently.

On this note:

-Snip-
So the moral(s) of the story.
1) Insure everything you ship.
2) Good things come to those who wait.

Has anyone actually ever been able to claim insurance on a lost crypto collectable? I've heard nothing but horror stories from serious bullion collectors who have lost multi thousand dollar graded coins, and they were only refunded the spot value of the metal because they couldn't adequately prove numismatic value, even with comparable on well known retailer's sites.

I have not. The mail-gods have lost a few crypto-packages these past few years.
Being that, It also depends on the shipping company and level of service you select/pay for.
I would have a hard time believing that something was lost if the proper shipping methods were used, ie: Registered USPS, etc.

And yes, many times it is almost impossible to get a "hard" value on an item due to variance in seller/buyer premiums
But I would think with proper paperwork/receipts that proof would taken as valid??

The problem with Registered USPS (at least for me) is that I have to go to the Post Office, I can't just drop it up front in my office and have it show up someplace else like Priority Mail. That means I'm either killing 30+ minutes during the work day or longer on a Saturday to do it and the actual service costs more and is slower. Somewhat easy to justify on a $1k deal (yeah I know I didn't for the last things I shipped to you) but for a $500 or a $100? tough to say. Everyone has their own level of risk. And as krogothmanhattan said above they have lost registered mail too.

Have you considered auctioning them as a pair?

Yes, but I would want to do something which I may or may not get bids on because I am going to start it way up there in BTC or something really different, I'm just not sure what yet.
Possibly trades for gold and silver coins? But that would put other people out of the bidding who don't have / collect them.
Which brings me back to the do I just start it really high and risk not getting bids? I'm in no rush to sell them but if anyone wants to swoop in with an insanely high offer I'll listen. My problem at the moment is not that I need BTC it's that I need storage space. So I have been selling some collectable coins here and there, but mostly trying to move miners that I have been sitting on, old PC stuff, shrinking my hot sauce collection, thins like that which take up more "space".
 
-Dave

[krogothmanhattan]

The problem with Registered USPS (at least for me) is that I have to go to the Post Office, I can't just drop it up front in my office and have it show up someplace else like Priority Mail. That means I'm either killing 30+ minutes during the work day or longer on a Saturday to do it and the actual service costs more and is slower. Somewhat easy to justify on a $1k deal (yeah I know I didn't for the last things I shipped to you) but for a $500 or a $100? tough to say. Everyone has their own level of risk. And as krogothmanhattan said above they have lost registered mail too.

      Yes even with registered I am very wary and with BTC being at where it is I am very concerned.

      For higher value items I will pick in person. Too much at stake to leave for idiots to handle.

[Lesbian Cow]

, shrinking my hot sauce collection,
 
-Dave

Hey now, let's not get carried away!

On the topic of insurance and USPS:

1)  I agree with MJ, if you use the proper level of service, such as USPS registered, it is highly unlikely you need to deal with the insurance aspect.

2)  I think it would be very difficult to claim crypto losses for insurance purposes.  No invoices make it difficult to prove value.  You can't really use private messages from "BobsGotADickinHIsButt" to prove value of a coin worth 20k USD.  To solve this problem, I would just claim gold coins were in the package (make sure package weighs enough to make such a claim) and use real invoices I have for gold coins to show value....just my thoughts....

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

This would be a great auction as long as you started from zero with no reserve. Really interested to see what those two notes would go for.

[DaveF]

This would be a great auction as long as you started from zero with no reserve. Really interested to see what those two notes would go for.

If I do decide to auction them zero / no reserve is probably not going to happen. As BG4 said it's the only star note he has made, I don't want it to go for too small an amount.
I'm thinking of doing some kind of charity auction. Kind of like what I tried when I 1st won them. Still kicking around some ideas. Wondering if anyone has anything better then an auction concept, not sure what it would be.

, shrinking my hot sauce collection,
 
-Dave

Hey now, let's not get carried away!

There is a limit of how many special editions of Blair's you can have around the house. Do I really need 2 of the Blair's Reserve Halloween 2009 & 2 of the 2007s?

-Dave

[JUPITYR]

The USPS is almost completely inept at performing basic shipping functions. Case in point, LC recently shipped me a 1 Day Express Mail item and it took 4 days to get to me.  Glad I paid extra for them to take as much time as Parcel would have from his state to mine.   

They also saw fit to flat out lose a package that I shipped to ANACS for about a month.  That was fun.

IMO FedEx and UPS are far and away better choices.  Since it's highly unlikely that any carrier will pay out crypto claims anyway, you might as well go with a company that has stockholders and gives a shit whether or not they are good at what they do. 

[DaveF]

...
IMO FedEx and UPS are far and away better choices.  Since it's highly unlikely that any carrier will pay out crypto claims anyway, you might as well go with a company that has stockholders and gives a shit whether or not they are good at what they do.....

UPS the company that dropped off a padded Amazon envelope that had been RUN OVER. Yes RUN OVER, as in I could see the tire tread marks on it and everything in it was just about 2 dimensional.


As for FedEx this is what they did to a APC UPS:


I'm just one guy selling & buying stuff here and on eBay.
I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon because I am to lazy to shop sometimes.
I work for a small company that does get a package or 2 a week in from all over.

Unless we are the unluckiest bunch around. They 3 all utterly incompetent.
And don't get me started on DHL....

-Dave

[Lesbian Cow]

On the shipping topic:

I get about 10 packages per week at my real job and ship out a similar quantity - from my experience UPS treats packages the worst - i routinely get packages with tire marks across them.

FedEX does a very good job of delivering overnight mail actually overnight and have the friendliest staff.

USPS - for domestic use I still find them the best combination of reliability, convenience and price.  Registered is about as bomb proof as you can get for high value items.

DHL - Very good for shipping to Europe.

UPS - rough treatment of packages, but solid international delivery.

Just my observations.

On topic of Papersafe #100's - Please don't do an auction with a high reserve or starting point - that should just be a WTS not an auction.  Auctions with high starting points or reserves get very little interest where if you start at zero you get lots of interest and actually generate the best selling price.

[DaveF]

So I *think* I am going to do an auction.

Not sure when yet. Probably in a few weeks as I know a lot of people are away for Easter / Passover this week and the week after income tax is due here in the US so a lot of people tighten up their wallets.

I was also thinking of doing a charity split. I keep 1/2 and I donate 1/2.

I would like to get some peoples opinion on this. Last few times I have done charity auctions I have gotten some flack. As in "why this one instead of that one" or "didn't you know that the one you picked is not as good as this other one". Or, "why are you donating to that charity, it's US based only what about the rest of the world" Along with, the ever popular "can you prove you donated it and just didn't keep the money" (I may or not be able to depending on how I donate).

I figure some the the complainers are just there to complain. Others might skip the auction totally because I do not support their cause. And some I donate too might go against what some people agree with. And some people are juts assholes. I got a rude PM about donating to Island Harvest https://www.islandharvest.org/ on another forum....I'm sorry if feeding the hungry offends you.

So, the questions are.

1) Do I do it and just say 1/2 goes to a charity of my choice that is rated well at charity navigator but you will not know which one. (This might be best)

2) Do I give a list of ones I would donate to anyway and let the winner choose which one. I figure I can put out a broad enough scope that they should be able to find something.

3) Do I do it the other way and let the winner give me a list and I pick, within certain conditions. (Not sure what other then a good rating on charity navigator / charity watch and no "hate groups")

OR

4) Do I not mention it at all, and only the people who actually read this thread will know about it. Once I get the BTC I can give it to who I want when I want and it's none of their business.

Looking for some input because I keep going around in circles in my brain.

Thanks,
Dave

[Also #5 do I wait for BTC to bounce back up before doing the auction]

[Lesbian Cow]

I would do #4 as it is cleanest and will not alienate any potential bidders.

I would also start the auction at zero and let it run a week.

So I *think* I am going to do an auction.

Not sure when yet. Probably in a few weeks as I know a lot of people are away for Easter / Passover this week and the week after income tax is due here in the US so a lot of people tighten up their wallets.

I was also thinking of doing a charity split. I keep 1/2 and I donate 1/2.

I would like to get some peoples opinion on this. Last few times I have done charity auctions I have gotten some flack. As in "why this one instead of that one" or "didn't you know that the one you picked is not as good as this other one". Or, "why are you donating to that charity, it's US based only what about the rest of the world" Along with, the ever popular "can you prove you donated it and just didn't keep the money" (I may or not be able to depending on how I donate).

I figure some the the complainers are just there to complain. Others might skip the auction totally because I do not support their cause. And some I donate too might go against what some people agree with. And some people are juts assholes. I got a rude PM about donating to Island Harvest https://www.islandharvest.org/ on another forum....I'm sorry if feeding the hungry offends you.

So, the questions are.

1) Do I do it and just say 1/2 goes to a charity of my choice that is rated well at charity navigator but you will not know which one. (This might be best)

2) Do I give a list of ones I would donate to anyway and let the winner choose which one. I figure I can put out a broad enough scope that they should be able to find something.

3) Do I do it the other way and let the winner give me a list and I pick, within certain conditions. (Not sure what other then a good rating on charity navigator / charity watch and no "hate groups")

OR

4) Do I not mention it at all, and only the people who actually read this thread will know about it. Once I get the BTC I can give it to who I want when I want and it's none of their business.

Looking for some input because I keep going around in circles in my brain.

Thanks,
Dave

[Also #5 do I wait for BTC to bounce back up before doing the auction]

[DaveF]

Just put them up for auction.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4682883.new#new
-Dave