Are Alt-Coins killing anonymity ? Crypto-2018 [The new era of centralisation]

[Patatas]

I have been thinking how cryptocurrencies are taking a u-turn and the trend is slowly moving towards a centralised paradigm.This isn't going to be a long post bragging about the issues,rather an open thread for discussion.

We all know how bitcoins came into existence.Cypher-Punks played an important role to build up the foundation. Anonymity and decentralisation being  the main motive,the project was set-up and it turned out to be a success.What's bothering me is how in 2018 the crypto culture isn't about anonymity or decentralisation anymore.It has become as commercial as possible especially the shitcoin projects which are heavily centralised.To support my point,I have listed out a few instances.

1.Back in the day,people trusted the anonymous team.Faith was in the projects and not the credibility of the team members since none was disclosed.Now,if the project doesn't have hot-shot fancy profiles,people don't consider it worthwhile.

2.Bounty Managers need to disclose their personal profiles to prove they're reliable.

3.Exchanges won't let you carry out a single transaction if you don't complete the KYC. (funny how back in the day there were no exchanges and yet people had no issues buying bitcoins,of course they belonged to the smart culture of the internet)

I can go on but I'll stop here.Do you think future of cryptos is another centralised banking system ?

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[Palmerson]

Why another banking system? User verification requirements are the requirements of the old banking system. She's not going anywhere. Through Fiat, the old banking system penetrates into the new crypto economy and slowly but surely puts it under control. Fiat's like a vampire bite. All who touch them can not refuse them.

[Piskeante]

goverments are killing anonymity because it's the first step to tax investors. Once you can tax them, you will be able to control their money and afterwards to know who is investing, why, how many profit is he getting and who gets it in reality.

Taxes + regulations + end of anonymity + huge volatility = investors , whales, traders and almost anyone running away from crypto, which is the thing it's happening right now.

And wait, because it will get worse. Much worse . G-20 is gonna kill crypto.

[Patatas]

Why another banking system? User verification requirements are the requirements of the old banking system. She's not going anywhere. Through Fiat, the old banking system penetrates into the new crypto economy and slowly but surely puts it under control. Fiat's like a vampire bite. All who touch them can not refuse them.

What is the point you're trying to make here ? Basically,I suggest user verification requirements shouldn't exist.

goverments are killing anonymity because it's the first step to tax investors. Once you can tax them, you will be able to control their money and afterwards to know who is investing, why, how many profit is he getting and who gets it in reality.

Exactly and the ICO's are supporting it which is the primary problem.ICO's shouldn't go the government way.

Taxes + regulations + end of anonymity + huge volatility = investors , whales, traders and almost anyone running away from crypto, which is the thing it's happening right now.

They are not running away though.Everyone is happy to submit their documents online just because they are able to make money which comes with a cost of paying taxes.I believe,it's the commercialisation is what killing the system.

[ranchi]

You are doing traction from wallet to wallet when you cash it then only government will find that you have cashed that coin but if you don't cash it and trust alt coins then how government or anyone know about any transaction.

Future is anonymity and decentralization currency

[yalla2012]

As for the first paragraph, I completely agree. Previously, projects were more open and there were much fewer scams. Now on the portfolio of developers you can understand whether this project is serious or not.

[NeuroticFish]

1. It's a fierce competition and the devs public profile can help the coin succeed.

2. I disagree. I don't know who yahoo62278 is, but I've seen him grow over time, I see he's working right, I trust him. I don't know who Sebastian Ju is, but after so much feedback I am sure he's very good escrow. So all you need is to grow steadily and correctly. I guess that disclosing personal profile gives an edge to the newcomers, but I don't know for sure.

3. Here's another problem. Asking for KYC when getting to fiat and banks is a requirement from the banks and not much to do. But at start most exchanges were crypto-crypto (altcoin exchanges) and all was great. Nowadays all go in the direction of diversifying towards fiat and that means that they ask for KYC. That happened with Polo, I expect the same with Bittrex.


But that doesn't kill the anonymity of the end-use as long as he stays inside the ecosystem. Yes, he would have to use his skills and earn crypto, mine or buy it anonymously (person to person). Yes, he should preferably use decentralized cryptocurrencies and even anonymous ones. And then nothing is "killed".

[Patatas]

1. It's a fierce competition and the devs public profile can help the coin succeed.

How ? Have you ever seen Satoshi's or gmaxwell's public profile before you bought bitcoin ? Did you even cared who they were ? If not then,why now ?

2. I disagree. I don't know who yahoo62278 is, but I've seen him grow over time, I see he's working right, I trust him. I don't know who Sebastian Ju is, but after so much feedback I am sure he's very good escrow. So all you need is to grow steadily and correctly. I guess that disclosing personal profile gives an edge to the newcomers, but I don't know for sure.

That is my point.You got it wrong.I support being anonymous and not the other way around which most of the ICO's are doing these days.

3. Here's another problem. Asking for KYC when getting to fiat and banks is a requirement from the banks and not much to do. But at start most exchanges were crypto-crypto (altcoin exchanges) and all was great. Nowadays all go in the direction of diversifying towards fiat and that means that they ask for KYC. That happened with Polo, I expect the same with Bittrex.

That is happening because people are using them extensively and by people I mean noobs who have no idea what's what.These are not even crypto-heads or people enthusiastic about bitcoin,they're just traders looking to make money by centralising the system.

[NeuroticFish]

1. It's a fierce competition and the devs public profile can help the coin succeed.

How ? Have you ever seen Satoshi's or gmaxwell's public profile before you bought bitcoin ? Did you even cared who they were ? If not then,why now ?

At the point I first heard of Bitcoin, Mt Gox has already happened. At that point it didn't matter anymore who made Bitcoin.
Also, just imagine the early days of Bitcoin. Would you have bought it for fiat? Let's say.. for 5$ one BTC? How about 50$ a BTC in 2009?
Now think that a public figure, somebody known to be a brilliant mathematician and economist and cryptographer and programmer release this Bitcoin thing in 2009, making publicity for it and telling that it's his project and these are the benefits. Wouldn't be a better chance you'd invest?

3. Here's another problem. Asking for KYC when getting to fiat and banks is a requirement from the banks and not much to do. But at start most exchanges were crypto-crypto (altcoin exchanges) and all was great. Nowadays all go in the direction of diversifying towards fiat and that means that they ask for KYC. That happened with Polo, I expect the same with Bittrex.

That is happening because people are using them extensively and by people I mean noobs who have no idea what's what.These are not even crypto-heads or people enthusiastic about bitcoin,they're just traders looking to make money by centralising the system.

Yes, I know that this is the modern era gold rush and many come without knowing anything, nor caring. Exchanges are businesses. At start they may have been owned by enthusiasts, but nowadays they got bought by bigger businesses, thus, indeed, centralization.


But, again, the same goes with fiat and crypto alike. You can use banks and services and that means they know everything about you, or you can use directly the coin or the paper and you are hidden.
It gets harder day by day to achieve that, I know that too, but it can still be done.

But at the end, the idea is to not help bad people hurt us. I know the implementation (to require everybody's personal data) is plain stupid, but it's all we have for now. All we can do is to try to go and vote for smarter people next time...

[Patatas]

At the point I first heard of Bitcoin, Mt Gox has already happened. At that point it didn't matter anymore who made Bitcoin.
Also, just imagine the early days of Bitcoin. Would you have bought it for fiat? Let's say.. for 5$ one BTC? How about 50$ a BTC in 2009?
Now think that a public figure, somebody known to be a brilliant mathematician and economist and cryptographer and programmer release this Bitcoin thing in 2009, making publicity for it and telling that it's his project and these are the benefits. Wouldn't be a better chance you'd invest?

Back in the day,it took one to be a great thinker,cypher-punk,mathematics expert to start a new crypto-currency.As for now,one only has to be a commercial idiot with no sense of logic to start a new coin.I mean apart from Vitalik,I don't see anyone doing anything great in the crypto-space.It all boils down to :  ICO sucks and we need to get rid off them.

Yes, I know that this is the modern era gold rush and many come without knowing anything, nor caring. Exchanges are businesses. At start they may have been owned by enthusiasts, but nowadays they got bought by bigger businesses, thus, indeed, centralization.

Correct.And going forward the same way,we will have government take over the bits and pieces of whatever good is left in this space.

[NeuroticFish]

As for now,one only has to be a commercial idiot with no sense of logic to start a new coin.I mean apart from Vitalik,I don't see anyone doing anything great in the crypto-space.It all boils down to :  ICO sucks and we need to get rid off them.

You are a bit too harsh. Indeed many are just commercial idiots (I like this term!), but despite so much mud, there are a few gems too here and there. They are just awfully hard to find.
Tokens are the new stocks and ICO is the new way for funding startups. Maybe it sounds strange, but we need regulation for them. That hopefully would filter out the scams and useless projects.

Correct.And going forward the same way,we will have government take over the bits and pieces of whatever good is left in this space.

Yep. This happens from the beginning of time. Big fish always eats the small fish while it's small. We are just better informed and we see it happen under our eyes.



I see that we get to agree on most points. But I still don't agree that all this kills anonymity for everybody I hope that you understood my views why.

[kolesozw]

Your points are valid.

People nowadays are biting only after fancy ANNs with big pictures. Almost nobody is reading the WP and they are giving their money after the hype.

I'm against any exchange or ICO with KYC. And I'm trying to use mostly DEX while I'm avoiding all ICO's who want to KYC their investors.

[Patatas]

People nowadays are biting only after fancy ANNs with big pictures. Almost nobody is reading the WP and they are giving their money after the hype.

White Paper ? Man you get white papers written for 50 bucks in the market.I bet you no one reads them actually.Do you think bounty whores will ever read or understand the white paper ? These people have problem understanding English..

I'm against any exchange or ICO with KYC. And I'm trying to use mostly DEX while I'm avoiding all ICO's who want to KYC their investors.

You're doing good mate.

[Patatas]

It's only starting of 2018 and we're already into KYC for bounty hunters lol If interested in reading further : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3216431.msg33570354#msg33570354

This is just the beginning of a centralised architecture and from here it will drastically change the way cryptos are dealt with.Future doesn't seem so bright,Bitcoin probably is the most decentralised coin crypto will ever see.