Please stop using "ROI" when you mean Capital Recovery. it makes you sound dumb.

[Tidsdilatation]

Being as "SMART" as you are, im sure you know that languages evolve and adapts where ever it is used. If everyone knows what you mean when you say something, and is agreeing to it, then it means what they say it means. Stop being a smartass.

[Iannn]

Reminds me of when people ask what caliber of gun I am shooting.  Well its a .30 caliber but I know what they mean and say .300 win mag or whatever.  It is not worth my effort to explain and it really does not matter as far as I can tell. 

[Max Likelihood]

I have a soapbox topic for today.

It's always bugged me that cryptocurrency miners have thrown around the term "ROI" (Return On Investment) as a euphemism for getting their initial capital investments in hardware purchases.  The correct term is "CR" or Capital Recovery.

When you see someone posting that they "got their ROI", or the "ROI on that GPU is 3 months", or "I've already ROIed so I'm hodling"... it makes them sound dumb.  I realize that using ROI as a stand-in for CR is probably just miner slang now, but in my opinion, words matter.  When you consider this is a forum where written words are the primary means of communicating ideas, then words matter.

Why is ROI an incorrect term?  It's incorrect because ROI is a simple mathematical formula to quantify the ratio or percentage of gains or losses based upon your capital outlay or investment.  You could have a negative ROI, but you don't really see anyone using that with the slang version of ROI used here.  They treat "ROI" as an absolute number, when the terms they really should be using are "CR" or Capital Recovery.


A simple example of ROI is this:  Miner A purchases a GPU for $1000, and over some period of time, that GPU mines $1000 worth of cryptocurrency.  Miner A did not "achieve" ROI... because the ROI is ZERO!  What did Miner A "achieve"?  They achieved a 100% "CR" or Capital Recovery.

Now, let's look at Miner B.  Miner B purchases a GPU for $1000, and over that same period of time, that GPU mines $1200 worth of cryptocurrency.  Miner B also did not "achieve" ROI.  The ROI is simply 20%.  Their "CR" or Capital Recovery is still 100%.  Both Miner A and B have "achieved" their CR, but their ROI is different.

Finally, let's look at Miner C.  Miner C purchases a GPU for $1000, and over that same period of time, that GPU mines $800 worth of cryptocurrency.  Miner C has an ROI of negative 20% (-20%), but their "CR" or Capital Recovery is still pretty good at 80%.


The above is a very simple comparison on why calculating "ROI" is not the same as CR.  There are actually several other factors to calculating ROI.  Time plays an important factor into calculating ROI, so it's never an apples-to-apples comparison unless all the same factors are considered.  In the case of physical capital like mining hardware, you also have to factor in your potential resale value if you choose to exit mining at that point in time.  It's rare to see anyone using ROI correctly, and it really has no meaning without all the proper context like time, resale value, and current coin pricing versus future coin pricing... so stop.



;TLDR
Simply put... stop using "ROI" when you mean "CR", as it makes you sound dumb.

I am actually a professional statistician, and I appreciate these points.

[puwaha]

There are all kinds of meds at "your" disposal to treat "your" anxiety, OCD and anal rententiveness.  Come out of the cave and smell the air while watching the butterflies flying around that huge chip on "your" shoulder that helps hold up that big fat head of "yours".  If you want to be an english teacher....goto high school and have at it.  In public, evetually someone will be bigger than you and beat hell out of you right in front of your old lady.  Its your choice as to whether and how much exactly you embarrass yourself.  Welcome to the real world...Life...Its a bitch.

It's funny to see people get so defensive when they know they are wrong.

[puwaha]

Being as "SMART" as you are, im sure you know that languages evolve and adapts where ever it is used. If everyone knows what you mean when you say something, and is agreeing to it, then it means what they say it means. Stop being a smartass.

I mentioned this a few posts ago, and acknowledged that words change meaning over time.

How about the word "decimate"?  It really means to kill one person out of 10... but when you say it, you probably think it means to kill everyone?  The word has lost it's original meaning, and for what?  We already have words that describe killing everyone.

As I mentioned in another reply earlier in this thread, the agreed meaning does not mean correct meaning.


Let's get real here.  You guys are arguing that a well understood financial idea called "return on investment" doesn't mean what it actually means, because we are either too lazy to use the correct terms, or are just ignorant of the difference.  You suggest that it means something completely different and are ok with that.  Is that it?

[puwaha]

Reminds me of when people ask what caliber of gun I am shooting.  Well its a .30 caliber but I know what they mean and say .300 win mag or whatever.  It is not worth my effort to explain and it really does not matter as far as I can tell.  

It's a good analogy, and many times we let things slide... but that's because they are ignorant of the difference.  Many posters here are saying they know the difference between ROI and CR but don't care to use the correct term.  That would be the equivalent of me saying that the .45 caliber GAP round and the .45 caliber ACP are the same thing... when they are not... then saying it doesn't matter because people know what I mean.

[nc50lc]

That's why I hate terminology.
People may know what they are talking about but most of the time, they're using the wrong term.
Now thanks to this thread, next time they might start using the correct term.

Nothing else to read in this tread aside from the OP (but I already read all four pages), and this thread needs to be pinned ;D

As I mentioned in another reply earlier in this thread, the agreed meaning does not mean correct meaning.

You said so, edit the title to: "Please stop using "ROI" when you mean Capital Recovery."

Thanks.

[xxcsu]

This topic should not be under Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Mining (Altcoins)
This is another useless topic in this section....
Maybe somewhere :  Bitcoin Forum > Other > Serious discussion
This is a kind of Serious discussion for a real smart members,
(most of us give a sht about it ... to be honest ... )

I hope no one going to post another topic tomorrow,  like : "Please stop using "MINING" when you mean the process of adding transaction records to Bitcoin's public ledger of past transactions and trying to solve a computationally difficult puzzle.... it makes you sound dumb.  
 
or

I hope no one going to post another topic tomorrow,  like : "Please stop using "MINING RIG" when you talking about a single computer system that performs the necessary computations for the process of adding transaction records to Bitcoin's public ledger of past transactions and trying to solve a computationally difficult puzzle .... it makes you sound dumb also  

Come on people ... please give some real help for your newbie friends ....

 

[pickleburglar]

If you are happy being educated about a word or a phrase, but think you have to use it incorrectly to "fit in"... then be my guest... take all the friends.  Just know that some of them are snickering behind your back because you say dumb things.  They still like you, it's just that pickleburgler says dumb things on purpose sometimes.

Social anxiety or in your case full blown paranoia isn't healthy you know... live long enough and you'll realize trivial bullshit like that isn't worth your time.

[edwardceng]

I used ROI many times ... So call me dumb. Don't care.
ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI.

God, I want to say "ROI" but I don't want to be called dumb. I must say "CR". but when I said "CR" it isn't happy for me, I want to say ROI ROI ROI
God, please forgive me

[gotminer]

I used ROI many times ... So call me dumb. Don't care.
ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI.

God, I want to say "ROI" but I don't want to be called dumb. I must say "CR". but when I said "CR" it isn't happy for me, I want to say ROI ROI ROI
God, please forgive me

Or you could just sell me your gpu's cheap and you won't have to worry about it.

[BennyT]

This thread is hilarious. You read the first post where OP is educating people on financial terms... then you jump to page 4 and people are suggesting meds to treat medical conditions lol. The internet in a nutshell.

[gotminer]

This thread is hilarious. You read the first post where OP is educating people on financial terms... then you jump to page 4 and people are suggesting meds to treat medical conditions lol. The internet in a nutshell.

Lol ... I don't know another place I could go and have this much fun 

[BitBustah]

Or you could just sell me your gpu's cheap and you won't have to worry about it.

Where you located? Might want to sell my GPUs..

[remauto1187ma]

There are all kinds of meds at "your" disposal to treat "your" anxiety, OCD and anal rententiveness.  Come out of the cave and smell the air while watching the butterflies flying around that huge chip on "your" shoulder that helps hold up that big fat head of "yours".  If you want to be an english teacher....goto high school and have at it.  In public, evetually someone will be bigger than you and beat hell out of you right in front of your old lady.  Its your choice as to whether and how much exactly you embarrass yourself.  Welcome to the real world...Life...Its a bitch.

It's funny to see people get so defensive when they know they are wrong.

Its REAL funny watching someone get the hell beat out of them when "you" know they deserved every bit of it.  Behind a keyboard "you" are safe.  Outside in the real world, good luck with all that.

[shaninium]

People dont say in these forums that they made 100% of ROI. They just say they made ROI. These are different and mean different things , true. Who is going to bother and say i made a 0% ROI but, or i made CR. Youd just confuse traders as CR to them means cash raise, you shouldnt use the same acronym for multiple definitions in the internet, even if it is more accurate.  Its just easier to say i made ROI.

[puwaha]

There are all kinds of meds at "your" disposal to treat "your" anxiety, OCD and anal rententiveness.  Come out of the cave and smell the air while watching the butterflies flying around that huge chip on "your" shoulder that helps hold up that big fat head of "yours".  If you want to be an english teacher....goto high school and have at it.  In public, evetually someone will be bigger than you and beat hell out of you right in front of your old lady.  Its your choice as to whether and how much exactly you embarrass yourself.  Welcome to the real world...Life...Its a bitch.

It's funny to see people get so defensive when they know they are wrong.

Its REAL funny watching someone get the hell beat out of them when "you" know they deserved every bit of it.  Behind a keyboard "you" are safe.  Outside in the real world, good luck with all that.

So, you are saying that people might want to beat me up because I suggested they might be using the wrong terminology?  What kind of insecure people do you hang around?

[puwaha]

People dont say in these forums that they made 100% of ROI. They just say they made ROI. These are different and mean different things , true. Who is going to bother and say i made a 0% ROI but, or i made CR. Youd just confuse traders as CR to them means cash raise, you shouldnt use the same acronym for multiple definitions in the internet, even if it is more accurate.  Its just easier to say i made ROI.

I certainly understand what people mean when they say they "made ROI"... but it makes no sense.  You made what ROI?  It's a ratio, a mathematical formula.  It would be the same as if I said, "Hey, yesterday I made my batting average!"  You'd look at me a little funny and say, "What in the hell are you talking about?  A batting average is a number, not a target!"

[mbdmbn]

People dont say in these forums that they made 100% of ROI. They just say they made ROI. These are different and mean different things , true. Who is going to bother and say i made a 0% ROI but, or i made CR. Youd just confuse traders as CR to them means cash raise, you shouldnt use the same acronym for multiple definitions in the internet, even if it is more accurate.  Its just easier to say i made ROI.

I certainly understand what people mean when they say they "made ROI"... but it makes no sense.  You made what ROI?  It's a ratio, a mathematical formula.  It would be the same as if I said, "Hey, yesterday I made my batting average!"  You'd look at me a little funny and say, "What in the hell are you talking about?  A batting average is a number, not a target!"

ROI or made ROI, means that you invested capital to gain a way of making future capital to a miner.

When the machine and parts pay for themself and their running costs, the ROI has been fulfilled.

Everything after that is profit if you sell for a profit, or loss, if you sell for a loss.

[trucobit]

I'll continue to use ROI

And it's your free-speech right to look dumb when you do.  I hope you don't take offense to my characterization.

Man, why this little thing botters you?
This term ROI is used a lot and will not change...

In my diatribe, I mention that I realize that ROI has become "miner slang" now... but it's still wrong.  We have hundreds of new miners show up every day, and we are teaching them the incorrect terminology.

Do you want everyone to dance to your music

ROI is valid and understandable. Using it does not make you look silly, it makes you stand proud and wise in front of others, impose your criteria and if you have to call fools to others you do it.

After studying marketing, ROI is the return on investment, I have invested 100 and I have recovered 100. That you prefer the other version, it seems more foolish to me to use the other acronym, because you want to go through life giving lessons, when nobody asks for them.