New ultra fast ASIC machines, who is legit and trustworthy and who isn't?

[manuel]

Many of them sound way too good to be true...  Terahashes?  For less than $10K? 

http://www.nitrominer.com/

https://hashfast.com/

http://www.asic-technologies.com/ - These guys claim they can ship the KnC Jupiter for $4,350 in six days.  Over here they offer same hash speed as KNC Jupiter for $3800 (doesn't make a lot of sense): http://www.asic-technologies.com/ "shipping now - 521.1 -564.8 GHash/sec – 30 BTC /$3800 – 28 nm chip"

How can I tell who is legit and who isn't?   After reading horror stories about Butterfly labs I'm lost.  Seems like incredible profit is possible with many of these machines (if they are real) if you act NOW.

Thanks!

[semaster]

Asic-technologies.com - scam (proof1 proof2)

nitrominer.com - most probably scam too -

[manuel]

Asic-technologies.com - scam (proof1 proof2)

nitrominer.com - most probably scam too -

Thanks.

what about hash fast?

What are the current best machines available and from who?

Also who are these guys? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI  Are they scammers?  If not where is their legit site?

[Rannasha]

Hashfast has yet to start shipping their miners, so it remains to be seen if they are trustworthy. They're not an immediately obvious scam like that asic-technologies website though.

[manuel]

Hashfast has yet to start shipping their miners, so it remains to be seen if they are trustworthy. They're not an immediately obvious scam like that asic-technologies website though.

What about avalon and this KnC Jupiter?  Is the KnC Jupiter a real thing just with a different real website?

[Syke]

Bitfury and KnC are the only 2 decent, low risk manufacturers. Everyone else is very high risk for any number of reasons.

[rograz]

Avalon has actually started being quite reliable lately, seems they shipped out the tradehill auctions within just a few days and if you order what they currently have in stock in the store it should be the same speedy shipping.

[aerobatic]

Many of them sound way too good to be true...  Terahashes?  For less than $10K?  
http://www.nitrominer.com/
https://hashfast.com/
http://www.asic-technologies.com/ - These guys claim they can ship the KnC Jupiter for $4,350 in six days.  Over here they offer same hash speed as KNC Jupiter for $3800 (doesn't make a lot of sense): http://www.asic-technologies.com/ "shipping now - 521.1 -564.8 GHash/sec – 30 BTC /$3800 – 28 nm chip"

How can I tell who is legit and who isn't?   After reading horror stories about Butterfly labs I'm lost.  Seems like incredible profit is possible with many of these machines (if they are real) if you act NOW.

I can personally vouch for Sam & Andreas at www.KncMiner.com, Simon, Eduardo and John at www.hashfast.com and Ravi at www.cointerra.com - having met and/or talked many times with the founders and employees of these companies.   They are all legitimate companies with founders who have the full intention of having happy customers.  They each have different products ranging in performance and delivery dates.  KnC are shipping first, in the 28nm generation.. i have 4 of their boxes hosted at KnC and theyre running great... and hashfast are aiming to deliver their first units within the next few weeks... and cointerra is aiming to deliver in December.  These are all priced accordingly, with KnC being more expensive - in $/GH terms, hashfast in the middle, and cointerra being the lowest cost $/GH.  All of them are sub 1 watt per GH... Hashfast claims sub 0.65W/Gh and cointerra claims sub 0.6w/GH.

I also have dealings with ButterFlyLabs, and have paid for several units of hardware months ago but have not received them, nor do i expect them to ever arrive and i think its clear that this isnt a company that aims to have happy customers (im clearly an unhappy one).  This company is very good at marketing and very bad at production (and terrible at customer support!)

I have invested in AsicMiner and though i dont believe their previous strategy is going to be sustainable, i believe them to be an honest and straight forward company who also aims to have happy investors.  Since theyre missing out on the 'next generation' chips, im expecting them to announce something soon (or theyre dead in the water... and since friedcat has an excellent reputation im assuming they have something good up their sleeves)

I have also met Valery from BitFury several times and i believe he is also legitimate, although his operations are mostly done personally and not via a company.  BitFury tends to sell their chips to distributors (in europe and the US) who assemble boards... so this creates more variability in the performance and reliability of the boards, and they have a more 'hobbyist' or 'hacker' style - their boards are usually not as easy to 'plug and play' as some of the others.

I dont have much experience of BitMine.ch (coincraft chip) but i think their intentions are good and their chip specs seem interesting.  Theyre shipping later than hashfast and a couple of weeks earlier than Cointerra.  If Cointerra's specs are to be believed (and i do) this may be the fastest (and cheapest $/GH) in the current 28nm generation, as halfway through next year everyone could be jumping on the next silicon die-shrink bandwagon.

At this point, i think there are plenty of scammy ones (eg xCrowd)...  and also some that are clueless or useless but not necessarily scammy  - though the difference is moot (terrahash, VMC/AMC)

At this point my personal opinion of the ones to avoid are: Avalon, terrahash, VMC/AMC... and the ones to consider are BitFury, KnCMiner, Hashfast, Cointerra, and BitMine.ch

-- Jez

[Soros Shorts]

Avalon has actually started being quite reliable lately, seems they shipped out the tradehill auctions within just a few days and if you order what they currently have in stock in the store it should be the same speedy shipping.

Yep, a few days ago I bought an Avalon Mini for 6 BTC direct from the Avalon store. Today my miner is already sitting at the DHL Cincinnati hub awaiting customs clearance. Not sure if I can make back the 6 BTC through mining, but I thought I'd give them another chance since I'd made a fortune from my B1 Avalons.

[manuel]

Avalon has actually started being quite reliable lately, seems they shipped out the tradehill auctions within just a few days and if you order what they currently have in stock in the store it should be the same speedy shipping.

What is their legit site?

Bitfury and KnC are the only 2 decent, low risk manufacturers. Everyone else is very high risk for any number of reasons.

What is their legit site(s) also?  One of the sites i posted above that people said was a scam had KnC.  d

[nwoolls]

How can I tell who is legit and who isn't?   After reading horror stories about Butterfly labs I'm lost.  Seems like incredible profit is possible with many of these machines (if they are real) if you act NOW.

If you are looking for profit, buy Bitcoins not ASICs. This fellow sums up the current situation very nicely:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1oto74/thinking_of_ordering_an_asic_there_is_most_likely/

• If you start mining at the beginning of November, you'll need to have paid less than $8/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.15 BTC profit).
• If you start mining at the beginning of December, you'll need to have paid less than $3/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.4 BTC profit).
• If you start mining at the beginning of January, you'll need to have paid less than $1/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.4 BTC profit).

[manuel]

How can I tell who is legit and who isn't?   After reading horror stories about Butterfly labs I'm lost.  Seems like incredible profit is possible with many of these machines (if they are real) if you act NOW.

If you are looking for profit, buy Bitcoins not ASICs. This fellow sums up the current situation very nicely:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1oto74/thinking_of_ordering_an_asic_there_is_most_likely/

• If you start mining at the beginning of November, you'll need to have paid less than $8/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.15 BTC profit).
• If you start mining at the beginning of December, you'll need to have paid less than $3/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.4 BTC profit).
• If you start mining at the beginning of January, you'll need to have paid less than $1/Gh/s to see ROI (less than 0.4 BTC profit).

Are the figures in this profit calculator just totally bogus then?  It looks like you can still make profit...

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

[aerobatic]

[
Are the figures in this profit calculator just totally bogus then?  It looks like you can still make profit...

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

i wouldnt bother with that site as its a little opaque to see whats going on and how to work it...

for a good mining roi calculator try this one...

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com

and for knowledge and pricing of the various different hardware companies in a simple table, try this one...

http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/


I should mention that all of these mining calculators utilise the recent historic difficulty rise as their formula for future rises... and that may not be accurate and is far from conservative.  there is little chance that the difficulty rise for each of next 12 months will be the same as the 117% rise that most of these forecasts are using.   thats much too pessimistic, as we're in a transition right now.. and the petahashes are coming thick and fast because BitFury and KnC just shipped into a market previously dominated by very unpowerful chips, and between them, theyve pre-sold several PH's.  but after they've shipped, things will start to slow down, as the PH's that hashfast and cointerra will put on the network wont make as big a dent as KnC and BitFury have done because by the time they ship, we will already be on 4 PH (min).

[nwoolls]

Are the figures in this profit calculator just totally bogus then?  It looks like you can still make profit...

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

Very few of them factor in how rapidly the difficulty is increasing.

[gmaxwell]

Very few of them factor in how rapidly the difficulty is increasing.

A problem here is that any "factoring in" is just a guess. It's been increasing lately as there has been a series of hardware makers successfully shipping. Maybe it continues like a rocket. Maybe it doesn't.  The current rate of growth cannot continue forever though, or otherwise we will soon need to start converting the mass of the sun into energy to power the miners.

[DyslexicZombei]

As someone who runs a co-op with orders from KnC, HashFast, Bitmine, and Black Arrow Bitfury Prosperos (with exclusive bullet run access 3.75 months early) I pretty much agree with aerobatic's assessment.

I haven't jumped on the Cointerra train yet, but I do see them as a quality entrant to the market. They appear to be running a bit late, likewise HashFast could possibly be running slightly late.

BTW, if you're dead set on mining and you don't have tens of thousands of dollars, I think Group Buys provide the best values, if you can find a good one that you like.

[manuel]

I should mention that all of these mining calculators utilise the recent historic difficulty rise as their formula for future rises... and that may not be accurate and is far from conservative.  there is little chance that the difficulty rise for each of next 12 months will be the same as the 117% rise that most of these forecasts are using.   thats much too pessimistic, as we're in a transition right now.. and the petahashes are coming thick and fast because BitFury and KnC just shipped into a market previously dominated by very unpowerful chips, and between them, theyve pre-sold several PH's.  but after they've shipped, things will start to slow down, as the PH's that hashfast and cointerra will put on the network wont make as big a dent as KnC and BitFury have done because by the time they ship, we will already be on 4 PH (min).

It's a brave new world.  Let's see what happens!

[manuel]

BTW, if you're dead set on mining and you don't have tens of thousands of dollars, I think Group Buys provide the best values, if you can find a good one that you like.

Got a link?

[rammy2k2]

if you order something, order from http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/ , best support, best price

[DyslexicZombei]

BTW, if you're dead set on mining and you don't have tens of thousands of dollars, I think Group Buys provide the best values, if you can find a good one that you like.

Got a link?

Sure, there's lots of options on the Group Buys forums. I think we consistently have some of the best deals around, but I'm a bit biased.  

The best values are always found at the high end, which unfortunately puts them out of the reach of most miners...unless we team up to combine our buying power like Costco, so that we can collectively afford the very best miner deals that the market offers.

Here's a summary of my democratic, at-cost or below-cost Miners Cooperative GB activities: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=315198.0

Bitmine Round 8 and Black Arrow Bullet Run with Bitfury chips Round 10 are the only two Group Buys I have open at the moment. We're part of a limited market launch for Black Arrow's new Prospero design using Bitfury chips now, about 3.75 months ahead of the public launch, instead of using their own 100GH/s Minion chip in late February.

Due to the fact that I founded the co-op on the basis of at-cost prices and the lowest vetted insured pro ASIC hosting fees around, I believe my GBs to be among the best values in ASIC pre-order hardware *and* hosting, bar none, anywhere. I really am just one you guys; just someone who got sick of seeing people getting scammed and ripped off from their hard earned money.

We've hedged our bets by spreading our investments in small portions among the various manufacturer options that we consider the strongest option(s) available at the time of purchase.

=

No joke: If you see a better deal somewhere else, please tell me; so we can get in on it.