Signature Campaigns taxes

[marielbeckham]

Actually, it differs and everything depends on the particular country you live in.

[cellard]

This would be also be a problem for us. We know how much taxes we are paying. We cannot just let our earning be deducted by taxes. You know how much taxes affecting our earnings, instead we are going to earn 100% from signature campaigns, we are going to get only 70%, 30% for our taxes. We know how much important the 30% earnings for us.

So you know you should be paying taxes but you don't want to because 30% isn't 100%? I'm sure we'd all like to keep 100% of our money but you do realize there may be a day when your greed comes back to bite you and that 30% doesn't seem to much when you have to pay the 30% you owed in addition to fines and interest? I would google what the fines and punishments are in your country for willfully evading taxes.

There is always a story behind it. I think our country is not yet ready for cryptocurrency, but as expected, we may pay our taxes if it is legalized in our own country. We should not let this happen, it will be a slight problem, for we have that kind of deductions in our earnings. We know why and what will be the reasons if it is implemented.

So you don't want bitcoin to be 'legalized' just because you like getting away with tax evasion right now? I seem to be confused. Has your country actually deemed bitcoin illegal or are you only going to consider it legal once your king or Supreme leaders publicly announces that it is legal and you should be paying taxes on it? I think a lot of people are assuming because you're not automatically being taxed on bitcoin like you do with a regular wage that it's not applicable yet. This is almost certainly not the case.

It's not that we want to avoid taxes, at least I don't, because me and a lot of other people hope to be able to buy real estate with our bitcoin gains, and you can't avoid taxes if you want to buy a house anyway.

So what do we have here: Some people earned small amounts through the years on the signature campaigns. Let's say you made 100-500 bucks worth of Bitcoin a month since 2012, im too lazy to get the exact number but imagine the gains... we are looking at possibly half a million dollars to a million dollars.

Now in most countries, 100-500 bucks is under minimum wage, so most likely you wouldn't have needed to report that, but this is extremely unclear how it would end up in a court.

In any case, you end up with a million worth of bitcoin made on signature campaigns, completely unreported. What do you in this situation? If you want to buy a house, what can one expect once you sell and receive the money in your bank account?

They will ask from where the money came from. Once again, several people are waiting to get some answers here. What will they ask for, specifically? what if the proof you present (let's say, screenshots from the threads, even digital signatures, etc?) it's not enough? what if they claim you should have reported your signature campaign earnings when you got paid and now you get an huge fee? you risk your money being confiscated.

The reason most people aren't risking reporting Bitcoin gains outside of the regular bought-in-Coinbase ones is because it's just very unclear how it will end up like, and people don't want to lose their hard earned money as soon as it hits your bank account. We have several evidence of bank accounts frozen when they sold their coins. We need answers, and so far, we don't have any testimonies of signature campaign earnings of any relevance being sold.

[apelmerah]

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

[cellard]

Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Edit

A few options are presented:

1. Don't say anything, it's virtually impossible for any tax agency to find out what you have. However eventually they might be able to and you could face serious problems.

2. Mark it as freelance work and a tax rate will be applied to it, up to 50% (reported by an user) It seems that they wont ask for much information or proof as long as you are declaring it intentionally.

3. Simply spend bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency that you earned without ever converting it to fiat because cryptocurrencies are usually not taxable in most European countries.

I will tell them that it's just a freelance work. Bounties are not permanent. It's a project base. I bet you don't even make a minimum wage with those bounties so it cannot be considered as full time job.

Tell us how it goes from you, im willing o hear your story, but also tell us where you are from too for reference, and tell us how much money did you sell made in the signature campaigns whenever you do.

I will tell them that it's just a freelance work. Bounties are not permanent. It's a project base. I bet you don't even make a minimum wage with those bounties so it cannot be considered as full time job.

A sole bounty campaign isn't permanent but there's new ones that are continually posted here and if you're a full time bounty hunter or move from one to the other month after month then that money will soon add up. Also, most countries have a minimum tax threshold before you have to pay income taxes so if you earn under it then you won't pay anything, but add this to your other sources of income and you may be. This is something you should look into. Just because you might not earn minimum wage also doesn't exclude you from taxes if you're self-employed or a freelancer.

OP is from spain, and by looking at the very complicated spanish laws, it seems you must pay monthly, without exception, around 300 euros if you work as a freelancer, plus another tax which will be 20% of your earnings every three months, plus another yearly tax. This is obviously insane for someone making money off signature campaigns, which is why I predict literally no one in spain has ever reported gains from signature campaigns.

The problem is, you didn't, and now your bitcoins are worth a ton (like I said, let's say you did that when bitcoin was way cheaper, which means your revenue in BTC terms was way higher back then). So now in our example this person has a nice little fortune in bitcoin which no government can ever know about, unless he decides to sell.

So if one wanted to buy some real estate with that fortune, what is to expect? That is what me and others are asking, since it doesn't seems very smart to sell with the risk of getting all of your hard earned money confiscated, as they could claim the origin of the money is unclear.

[budz0425]

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

I don't think that the government will become strict in the campaigns as it is just temporary, for me what they would focus is the income from trading your money, or by simply holding it, since by just simple holding you are gaining from it.

[cellard]

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

I don't think that the government will become strict in the campaigns as it is just temporary, for me what they would focus is the income from trading your money, or by simply holding it, since by just simple holding you are gaining from it.

If you go from one campaign to another, and most do given the opportunity since if you are going to be posting anyway you must as well get paid for it, the activity no longer becomes an sporadic one, so in theory it is income taxable.. but like I said before, if you haven't reported anything for years and it has increased a ton in price, you are at risk of getting fucked by the state in a bad way, since we don't know what to expect. Im willing to pay taxes when I want to buy a house, but I want a fair deal, I don't want my money to be stolen under a legal pretense.

Give me some evidence of someone cashing out a big amount of BTC earned in signature campaigns not previously reported for years and then we will know what to expect, at least in the respective jurisdiction.

[Mahanton]

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

I don't think that the government will become strict in the campaigns as it is just temporary, for me what they would focus is the income from trading your money, or by simply holding it, since by just simple holding you are gaining from it.

If you go from one campaign to another, and most do given the opportunity since if you are going to be posting anyway you must as well get paid for it, the activity no longer becomes an sporadic one, so in theory it is income taxable.. but like I said before, if you haven't reported anything for years and it has increased a ton in price, you are at risk of getting fucked by the state in a bad way, since we don't know what to expect. Im willing to pay taxes when I want to buy a house, but I want a fair deal, I don't want my money to be stolen under a legal pretense.

Give me some evidence of someone cashing out a big amount of BTC earned in signature campaigns not previously reported for years and then we will know what to expect, at least in the respective jurisdiction.

But as a smart person we wont really do such thing on making them or showing evidences right? If we do know the law of our country is too strict when it comes to tax then its normal for us to get worried on not paying up taxes because sooner or later there would be problems would be faced specially when you are already engaging into big amounts but yet we are just talking about signature campaign taxes i dont really bother too much yet the amount isnt really too big at all to consider.

[cellard]

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

I don't think that the government will become strict in the campaigns as it is just temporary, for me what they would focus is the income from trading your money, or by simply holding it, since by just simple holding you are gaining from it.

If you go from one campaign to another, and most do given the opportunity since if you are going to be posting anyway you must as well get paid for it, the activity no longer becomes an sporadic one, so in theory it is income taxable.. but like I said before, if you haven't reported anything for years and it has increased a ton in price, you are at risk of getting fucked by the state in a bad way, since we don't know what to expect. Im willing to pay taxes when I want to buy a house, but I want a fair deal, I don't want my money to be stolen under a legal pretense.

Give me some evidence of someone cashing out a big amount of BTC earned in signature campaigns not previously reported for years and then we will know what to expect, at least in the respective jurisdiction.

But as a smart person we wont really do such thing on making them or showing evidences right? If we do know the law of our country is too strict when it comes to tax then its normal for us to get worried on not paying up taxes because sooner or later there would be problems would be faced specially when you are already engaging into big amounts but yet we are just talking about signature campaign taxes i dont really bother too much yet the amount isnt really too big at all to consider.

Again, it's not that you get paid much... it's that Bitcoin goes up in value over time.

If you participate in signature campaigns as an Hero+ Member for a year, you could make around 1 BTC on average, at current rates. Let's say you do and save that 1 BTC. You didn't report your monthly income which is not much, but in 5 to 10 years your 1 BTC is now worth $1,000,000, so now you have $1,000,000 of unreported money. What would you do then, if you wanted to buy some real estate? that's what we are dealing with in here. We already know bounties don't pay much, but when you get paid in BTC and you hold it, sky is the limit long term.

[Jpja]

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency. There is another option to go to another country and cash your coins there . But it's risky, too.

[cellard]

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency. There is another option to go to another country and cash your coins there . But it's risky, too.

This seems to be the most sensible way to go about it... if there isn't 100% clear rules in what to do and what to expect, and if you can't find people that has done the same in the past and see how it went for them, you are basically being a guinea pig for the government as mentioned before.

So if anyone cashes out big amounts obtained through bounties like the signature campaigns in here, please let us known in detail how it went for you. Until then, we are just speculating.

[guybrushthreepwood]

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency.

This seems to be the most sensible way to go about it... if there isn't 100% clear rules in what to do and what to expect, and if you can't find people that has done the same in the past and see how it went for them, you are basically being a guinea pig for the government as mentioned before.

It's not the most sensible option at all. It's the dumbest one because you're just trying to claim ignorance when the simple fact of the matter is that in almost all cases if you earn money regardless of what currency it's in then you have earned money and it's liable for taxes. As I've said numerous times now just because you feel the law isn't 'clear' (tax laws rarely are) or they haven't explicitly come out and said you owe this much on bitcoin doesn't mean "wahoo tax free earnings" and you're honestly not going to be able to use these as excuses if/when it comes down to it.

There is another option to go to another country and cash your coins there . But it's risky, too.

This also isn't viable. Most countries have laws about this otherwise everyone would just go to a country that has zero taxes, cash out their money then come back. Governments aren't stupid.

[cellard]

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency.

This seems to be the most sensible way to go about it... if there isn't 100% clear rules in what to do and what to expect, and if you can't find people that has done the same in the past and see how it went for them, you are basically being a guinea pig for the government as mentioned before.

It's not the most sensible option at all. It's the dumbest one because you're just trying to claim ignorance when the simple fact of the matter is that in almost all cases if you earn money regardless of what currency it's in then you have earned money and it's liable for taxes. As I've said numerous times now just because you feel the law isn't 'clear' (tax laws rarely are) or they haven't explicitly come out and said you owe this much on bitcoin doesn't mean "wahoo tax free earnings" and you're honestly not going to be able to use these as excuses if/when it comes down to it.

There is another option to go to another country and cash your coins there . But it's risky, too.

This also isn't viable. Most countries have laws about this otherwise everyone would just go to a country that has zero taxes, cash out their money then come back. Governments aren't stupid.

No one is claiming that we want to avoid taxes here, read again. Bitcoin back then was too much of a novelty, literally no one reported that you got paid 50 bucks worth of something called "bitcoin" because you posted in a forum.

So there's a ton of people that has amounts from back then that are now worth a lot. Let us pay taxes when we want to cash out, but if we know for a fact that they will fuck us up, then why you would even bother? If I was in that situation, I wouldn't risk it. This applies for miners too. A ton of people mined some coins back then, then years later they find that they have months or even years of unreported mining gains. If the fee/punishment will be bigger than just not reporting anything and spending your coins in smaller things that will not raise alarms, why the hell would send yourself to the slaughterhouse?

So if anyone wants to be a guinea pig for the government and wants to report years of unreported bitcoin gains through signature campaigns, then please let us know how it went, so we know what to expect. Until then, no thanks, im not going to be the first to do so.

[goldenplak]

I also wonder why there should be a tax, for example when we want to convert bitcoin into our currency, there must be a few percent taxes, what if the small bitcoin amount may be exhausted with the tax, it seems that for companies that use the application get paid from taxes we spend

[guybrushthreepwood]

No one is claiming that we want to avoid taxes here, read again.

Except for all the people who have claimed exactly that in this thread and the guy you quoted:

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin back then was too much of a novelty, literally no one reported that you got paid 50 bucks worth of something called "bitcoin" because you posted in a forum.

It's not a novelty if you're making good money and a living from it. You wouldn't have to pay anything on taxes of $50 anyway. In my country at least you get a tax free allowance and anything under that you pay nothing. I suspect many people who earn just a little from signature campaigns every month won't be due anything either. Those who have 20 accounts claiming every bounty they can will likely be a different matter.

So there's a ton of people that has amounts from back then that are now worth a lot. Let us pay taxes when we want to cash out

That's how it works in most places. You pay gains when you cash out, but if you earn a living or run a business then this is probably not the case. Say you earned $10,000 a year then no taxes would be due in my country. But say that $10,000 goes up tenfold to 100,000 over the years then you would owe capital gains on the coins you sold, but again, you have a yearly tax free capital gains allowance that you could take advantage of where you pay nothing at all up to a certain amount.

but if we know for a fact that they will fuck us up, then why you would even bother? If I was in that situation, I wouldn't risk it. This applies for miners too. A ton of people mined some coins back then, then years later they find that they have months or even years of unreported mining gains. If the fee/punishment will be bigger than just not reporting anything and spending your coins in smaller things that will not raise alarms, why the hell would send yourself to the slaughterhouse?

That's willfully evading taxes and makes your punishment much worse when caught and if they find out you've purposely avoided and evaded taxes then that's when jail time becomes a possibility. It's up to you whether you want to take the risk but the longer you leave it the bigger the penalties will be. They usually want interest on the money you owed for every year on top of fines so you have to decide whether that risk is worth if for you. Again, if you didn't earn much in the first place then you might not have been due to pay anything so just pay the capital gains when you cash out and there shouldn't be any worries. The fact that you have paid your gains willfully will count a lot for you. Not paying them willfully could come back to haunt you if they do every catch up with you, though.

So if anyone wants to be a guinea pig for the government and wants to report years of unreported bitcoin gains through signature campaigns, then please let us know how it went, so we know what to expect. Until then, no thanks, im not going to be the first to do so.

You're not the first. Plenty of people pay their taxes both on income and capital gains. I've paid capital gains taxes on my bitcoin earnings for the past few years and it went fine. Absolutely no problems at all. I will now likely not have any issue if I want to go buy something like a house whereas if I hadn't have been declaring my gains I would have had a bank account with a load of money that I wouldn't have been able to buy a house with because it wouldn't have been accounted for income. I would then likely be investigated and hit with fines for any taxes I had missed on paying. I would suggest people just actually read up on the rules for income and capital gains taxes in their country instead of just making up their own rules to suit themselves or their greed because it's only a matter of time before a lot of them start looking into crypto earnings and gains and if you're a long-term hodler there's going to be a time where you start wanting to buy houses and lambos and good luck with that heat you attract.

[Rugosa]

You can always purchase untraceable precious metals. Gold is always desirable and not all gold dealers ask for identification for 'relatively' small purchases. A very easy way to unload your bitcoin if you are scared of holding.

[ronealdenila]

When I read this thread my reaction was " seriously? is it possible to have taxes on signature campaigns?" I don't think it's optional if you really pay the tax or not in the world of crypto 

[cellard]

You're not the first. Plenty of people pay their taxes both on income and capital gains. I've paid capital gains taxes on my bitcoin earnings for the past few years and it went fine. Absolutely no problems at all. I will now likely not have any issue if I want to go buy something like a house whereas if I hadn't have been declaring my gains I would have had a bank account with a load of money that I wouldn't have been able to buy a house with because it wouldn't have been accounted for income. I would then likely be investigated and hit with fines for any taxes I had missed on paying. I would suggest people just actually read up on the rules for income and capital gains taxes in their country instead of just making up their own rules to suit themselves or their greed because it's only a matter of time before a lot of them start looking into crypto earnings and gains and if you're a long-term hodler there's going to be a time where you start wanting to buy houses and lambos and good luck with that heat you attract.

Im talking about signature campaign gains specifically.

How does one prove that the money comes from a legal activity (in this case, signature campaign bounties) and how is this declared?

Do they ask for screenshots of the threads where it shows the rates? what if the rates change and they do over time? how do you prove you own these accounts in which you got paid at? signed message with the account you got paid at?

And so on. That's what im talking about, and there are no clear rules about that. Anyone that wants to eventually sell, needs to know that information to be ready.

Let's say you have never made more than $10,000 a year from signature campaign payments, so in the case that one wanted to sell it, it would just be regular capital gains I guess. But one must look how it works in your country.

My point is, im never going to avoid taxes, when I cash out, basically because it's impossible if you want to buy real estate with that money, and I want to know what to expect, so I have all the info ready when I want to sell an amount and buy a house, because if you don't have all the info ready, they can just froze your account and end up confiscating your money (it has happened before), in which case you would have been better off keeping it on BTC where it remains safe no matter what (assuming the BTC wasn't obtained in NSA central like Coinbase)

That's willfully evading taxes and makes your punishment much worse when caught and if they find out you've purposely avoided and evaded taxes then that's when jail time becomes a possibility. It's up to you whether you want to take the risk but the longer you leave it the bigger the penalties will be. They usually want interest on the money you owed for every year on top of fines so you have to decide whether that risk is worth if for you. Again, if you didn't earn much in the first place then you might not have been due to pay anything so just pay the capital gains when you cash out and there shouldn't be any worries. The fact that you have paid your gains willfully will count a lot for you. Not paying them willfully could come back to haunt you if they do every catch up with you, though.

Nope, that's just being realistic. In some countries, they have laws that go something like this:

"if you are holding in value higher than $500,000 and you haven't declared it, it means automatically jailtime".

So let's say you mined some coins in 2011 or something, mined a couple 50 BTC blocks, and you had a 100 BTC wallet that you forgot about for years.

Once you find out about Bitcoin again, your money is worth millions.

The scenario is similar with signature campaigns, you got paid from 2011 to 2013, forget about BTC because you think it's dead, then you get interested again and they are worth a ton.

So basically, if you tell the government, you'll go to jail, because you are holding an amount higher than whatever treshhold they have for jail time for unreported gains.

This is why you must really know how it works in your jurisdiction. Some laws are just stupid, and you are better off keeping your money in BTC, rather than end up poor and in jail. You couldn't be able to spend your BTC in flashy things which sucks, no nice house and car for you, but it sure beats ending up with bigger problems just because you are trying to do the right thing. That's why again, you must be sure how these things work before doing anything stupid. The only thing guaranteed is that your BTC are safe were they are at (assuming your cold storage is good), so be sure you know what to expect if you try to go fiat.

[darkedelf]

It actually difficult for any government agency to discover what you earn from bitcoin business related activities such as signature campaign on less your wallet is link to your bank account.

[jaocoincrypto18]

Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Edit

A few options are presented:

1. Don't say anything, it's virtually impossible for any tax agency to find out what you have. However eventually they might be able to and you could face serious problems.

2. Mark it as freelance work and a tax rate will be applied to it, up to 50% (reported by an user) It seems that they wont ask for much information or proof as long as you are declaring it intentionally.

3. Simply spend bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency that you earned without ever converting it to fiat because cryptocurrencies are usually not taxable in most European countries.

It will depend upon the country that you are staying in which Bitcoin investment is declared legal then of course you will be subject for taxation per regulation.If you earned Bitcoin thru signature campaign, trading and any form of Bitcoin investments that once you convert it to your local paper money then it will be subject for a taxation thru your local exchanges as per policy of the government. Except if Bitcoin is not legal but not ban in your country then you will enjoy the benefits of earning Bitcoin without tax.

[renz0]

In my country no need to pay tax if I got income from signature campaigns, because don't have any regulations about that.
So depend of your country, if there's no regulations or rules of pay tax from signature campaigns, I think is ok no need to pay taxes.

Yes right.No regulations or rules implemented no taxes. Like here also in our country, bitcoin is legal but not controlled by the government so whatever transaction made in a P2P network are tax free.We only pay service charge to the merchants handling the cash out transactions.