Signature Campaigns taxes

[LeGaulois]

Here too it is a little complicated to know how to consider it and therefore how to declare it. When you make an appointment at the tax department they don't know how to answer you and don't know who to contact for a reliable answer. We are currently in the process of declaring it in one of our sections that can be described as "extra earnings", as long as it does not exceed a certain amount annualy otherwise you are considered professional. (facepalm). I don't even dare to think for the companies that transact with cryptos from their customers.

Care to say where are you from? I would like to know how it goes for you, keep us posted. It would be useful to know what amount are you selling. I know its none of your business but its really relevant to know what to expect depending on which amounts are being dealt with. Typically the higher the amount the deeper the audit I would guess.

Another point that could be made is.. assuming you present screenshots of the payments for the forum posts, couldn't they just know your entire earnings? they would know your forum account and thus figure the entire history, so you would need to sell the entire stack? What if I just don't want to and want to keep it and only sell a small %? All these things keep me up at night, I just don't know what to do to be honest.

The conclusion thus far for me is that governments have no idea what they are doing neither do accountants, so there's really nowhere to go in terms of safety, other than not doing anything and deciding what to do in the future.

I report it as an income. It was the best thing to do in my case. I preferred to think large, so even if I'm wrong, in the worst case they will have to pay me money as a refund. I won't be blamed for trying to hide an income. Which is getting more and more difficult in France anyway, especially since now they use big data to hunt down fraud and all that.
The good thing is I am paying about 6% only (instead of ~35%). and to be safe I keep track of every trade I do with it ref # etc. since the govt now ask us to report every crypto exchange account (or a fine of 750€ if I'm correct)

[1714831998]

1714831998

[1714831998]

1714831998

[1714831998]

1714831998

[gentlemand]

I wouldn't bother. The amount you can earn from these campaigns are quite small, even for Legendary ranks.

That's right. If to cash out by little like 50-100$ a month a bank won't has any pretensions to those money. Taxation is more about big sum of money which source you should represent to the bank and taxation system.

It doesn't matter how much you cash out, you're being paid in something with value and that's the place you're taxed.

Of course if you don't bother reporting it in most places no one's going to find out, but you might be setting yourself up for future problems if they choose to sniff around. Again, the likelihood is low.

And for some campaigns the payouts can easily take you above your tax allowance. I can't be bothered to add it up but it's quite possible I went over mine last year purely from the campaign I'm in. If the price had stayed high it would've been not too far off the average salary where I am.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

Often, the honesty side to things springs from need. Until you really need to convert your crypto to FIAT, you can get away being under the radar (for now). It’s when one wants/needs to convert to FIAT that you need to bear in mind all the legal aspects it entails, alongside with knowing how to justify it properly in case of an inspection.

In Spain we are now in the season where we prepare our Statement of Income over 2018’s overall earnings. This year it seems, 14.700 Spanish residents are viewing a pop-up whist preparing the Statement of Income, reminding them that the benefits made from crypto operations are subject to taxation. The message is not random or a general reminder to all, but specifically to a set of residents of which the tax office has information about in relation to their crypto operations.

How the tax office knows exactly is unknown, but likely, they have targeted all bank accounts that receive FIAT transfers from known exchanges, being the Spanish banks the ones who provide this information to the tax office. One could try to go through alternatives such as Localbitcoins, but many consider it risky.

[cellard]

<…>

Often, the honesty side to things springs from need. Until you really need to convert your crypto to FIAT, you can get away being under the radar (for now). It’s when one wants/needs to convert to FIAT that you need to bear in mind all the legal aspects it entails, alongside with knowing how to justify it properly in case of an inspection.

In Spain we are now in the season where we prepare our Statement of Income over 2018’s overall earnings. This year it seems, 14.700 Spanish residents are viewing a pop-up whist preparing the Statement of Income, reminding them that the benefits made from crypto operations are subject to taxation. The message is not random or a general reminder to all, but specifically to a set of residents of which the tax office has information about in relation to their crypto operations.

How the tax office knows exactly is unknown, but likely, they have targeted all bank accounts that receive FIAT transfers from known exchanges, being the Spanish banks the ones who provide this information to the tax office. One could try to go through alternatives such as Localbitcoins, but many consider it risky.

Most likely they got the memo from entering details on KYC exchanges. So assuming they have the trading history they should be ok.. but there's some horror stories involving big % increases, followed by big sell-offs (as in 2017 peak and crash), then the guy losing the keys and owing taxes on the increased %. It depends on the country but something like this happened in the US I think.

In any case what this thread is about is how does one go about selling sig campaign earnings after years of hodling and probably losing a partial amount of information related to of the origin of funds (there's no way everyone has kept %100 of information... most sites of back then don't even exist today and I really doubt everyone took screenshots and if said screenshots would be enough proof at all). Due all the doubts surrounding this subject most have decided to just keep hodling, but eventually one will want to diversify and sell a % as BTC goes to new highs so we should know what to do before we need to do it.

[coin-investor]

I prefer your first point, do not tell them at all if you tell them the first time, you will have to do this to all your succeeding income taxes, and you will have to show proof that you are not doing well when the time comes that you cannot reach the amount that you filed the first time.

[Netnox]

A few options are presented:

1. Don't say anything, it's virtually impossible for any tax agency to find out what you have. However eventually they might be able to and you could face serious problems.

2. Mark it as freelance work and a tax rate will be applied to it, up to 50% (reported by an user) It seems that they wont ask for much information or proof as long as you are declaring it intentionally.

3. Simply spend bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency that you earned without ever converting it to fiat because cryptocurrencies are usually not taxable in most European countries.

I went through all the three options. Here is my opinion about it:

1. If you don't want to convert your coins immediately to fiat, then you can go for this.
2. If you don't mind paying the 50% tax, then go ahead with this option. The safest route out of the three.
3. Crypto is more or less anonymous. But the moment you convert it to any other asset (fiat, goods, bullion.etc), that anonymity is lost. Keep that in mind.

[Vishnu.Reang]

I wouldn't bother. The amount you can earn from these campaigns are quite small, even for Legendary ranks.

That's right. If to cash out by little like 50-100$ a month a bank won't has any pretensions to those money. Taxation is more about big sum of money which source you should represent to the bank and taxation system.

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

[sunsilk]

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

That's worth of $720, correct me with the exchange rate.

$1 = Rs 69.14

In some countries, that kind of amount should be taxed already whether it is a gift or in kind or income.

[Ipwich]

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

That's worth of $720, correct me with the exchange rate.

$1 = Rs 69.14

In some countries, that kind of amount should be taxed already whether it is a gift or in kind or income.

So signature campaign income is considered a gift in some countries?
Can you please clarify this, I know different taxation law in different countries, it's necessary how we treat out income in signature campaign for tax purposes.

[sunsilk]

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

That's worth of $720, correct me with the exchange rate.

$1 = Rs 69.14

In some countries, that kind of amount should be taxed already whether it is a gift or in kind or income.

So signature campaign income is considered a gift in some countries?
Can you please clarify this, I know different taxation law in different countries, it's necessary how we treat out income in signature campaign for tax purposes.

I guess so, base on what he said you can declare that an income made on their country can be a gift from strangers including signature campaign profit.

But I think this only applies to their country because converting that amount of example looks high in other countries and it's already taxable.

[cellard]

I don't see what the big deal is in reporting signature campaign earnings. I believe in transparency and letting the government have its cut, and while it's true some people will get away with not reporting it, I like the peace of mind that comes with making Big Brother happy.

No need to worry if our government ask us to pay task because the signature campaign has a spreadsheet that has transparency transactions, then if necessary then you can print that as a proof of income in promoting signature and not comes from fraud.
But I think when you are holding no tax will be implemented on that however it will effective when you converting your bitcoin into cash.

The problem is some signature campaigns paid on websites and not directly on your BTC address, it was an address generated on a website, typically a lot of casino sites did this to promote signup registrations. Most of the sites are probably gone so what to do then?

I wouldn't bother. The amount you can earn from these campaigns are quite small, even for Legendary ranks.

That's right. If to cash out by little like 50-100$ a month a bank won't has any pretensions to those money. Taxation is more about big sum of money which source you should represent to the bank and taxation system.

It doesn't matter how much you cash out, you're being paid in something with value and that's the place you're taxed.

Of course if you don't bother reporting it in most places no one's going to find out, but you might be setting yourself up for future problems if they choose to sniff around. Again, the likelihood is low.

And for some campaigns the payouts can easily take you above your tax allowance. I can't be bothered to add it up but it's quite possible I went over mine last year purely from the campaign I'm in. If the price had stayed high it would've been not too far off the average salary where I am.

Yeah in chipmixer im pretty sure you were able to make more than minimum income specially during the 2017 bubble.. so what will you do? Personally I think I have never made more than minimum income in my country but perhaps I was able to break at some months.

I really have no idea what im going to do if I wanted to cash out in fiat. It is really a mess. I have been in a fuckton of different campaigns and trying to gather all the data is hell. I have definitely lost some data because I got paid on websites (like fastdice, which no longer exists I think, and I have no data on that).

I wouldn't bother. The amount you can earn from these campaigns are quite small, even for Legendary ranks.
I don't think no one will harass you for such a unusual income that no one is sure about.

Bitcoin is largely unregulated in the world and it will be difficult to regulate it once they make a significant effort.
This amount is also pretty small, so I don't see why someone would really care, as the whole signature campaign economy is very small.

But then again, I am not a lawyer, I have no idea.

This is not the problem. The problem is, lets say you make 1 BTC from posting for a couple of years, then in 5 years 1 BTC is worth $1,000,000. What then?

[imstillthebest]

I don't see what the big deal is in reporting signature campaign earnings. I believe in transparency and letting the government have its cut, and while it's true some people will get away with not reporting it, I like the peace of mind that comes with making Big Brother happy.

No need to worry if our government ask us to pay task because the signature campaign has a spreadsheet that has transparency transactions, then if necessary then you can print that as a proof of income in promoting signature and not comes from fraud.
But I think when you are holding no tax will be implemented on that however it will effective when you converting your bitcoin into cash.

tax arent also applicable to fiats because you can also pay your own tax using your cryptos . on some wallets there is already a feature where they can pay thier own tax contribution  .  the point here is not about frauds on why we should pay tax but its about the nature of our work . we are not a government workers . we are only working on this forum as a form of sideline job  . so why would we pay a tax ? 

[crossabdd]

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

That's worth of $720, correct me with the exchange rate.

$1 = Rs 69.14

In some countries, that kind of amount should be taxed already whether it is a gift or in kind or income.

agree it, how government know you get money if you not report your income?
i think people must report his income be honestly and transparently, so government can take the tax from your income.
but if we compare with youtube creator, i dont think bitcoin freelancer must report his income because they never report his income too.

[mirakal]

agree it, how government know you get money if you not report your income?
i think people must report his income be honestly and transparently, so government can take the tax from your income.
but if we compare with youtube creator, i dont think bitcoin freelancer must report his income because they never report his income too.

You don't need to report if you don't want to pay taxes, but that's against the law.
If only we can hide our income, it would better, and not everything we earn should be reported to the government, there is no freedom that way.
We comply what is required in the law, that's it, we have no choice as we will be in trouble in case.

[cellard]

agree it, how government know you get money if you not report your income?
i think people must report his income be honestly and transparently, so government can take the tax from your income.
but if we compare with youtube creator, i dont think bitcoin freelancer must report his income because they never report his income too.

You don't need to report if you don't want to pay taxes, but that's against the law.
If only we can hide our income, it would better, and not everything we earn should be reported to the government, there is no freedom that way.
We comply what is required in the law, that's it, we have no choice as we will be in trouble in case.

Most of us don't want to break any laws, the main problem is the lack of certainty when it comes to what to expect from the government when you are cashing out something as strange as revenue out of posting on some forum, paid on a digital currency, not include giveaways, forks, and any other extremely-alien-to-government-official stuff. Add in the difficulty of tracking all of this (which as far as im concerned is impossible, I don't even know how much I own in forks since who even knows how many forks are out there). Then the fact that most exchanges are dead and you have most likely lost trading history, and they want you to report every altcoin to altcoin trade. How in the f*ck are you supposed to provide all of that information? Because of that, most have decided to just never cash out or at least wait and see what happens in the future, because it's too risky to do it now without knowing what to expect from the government, and there isn't enough evidence of people here selling and seeing what happens specially if you don't have all the info to back up the origin of the funds. If they screw you up at the very second you can't justify the origin of a BTC then what's the point.

[Remainder]

In order to properly declare your earnings in signature campaign, might as well declare your earnings to tax haven countries.
You can have it declare without paying taxes or at most minimal amount of tax payments. Then you need to file income tax return for that country annually. After you have your earnings ready for transfer to your local banks, just present your income tax return to disclose the source of earnings. The problem with that is the reciprocity agreement between both countries. Make sure that your declaration of earnings in a tax haven country shall not be tax to your own country.

[cryptoangel]

Signature campaigns works are comes under the service job taxes. Mostly you need to pay around 20 percentage as the tax in many countries. If you are spending the money from the card payment and purchase the things then automatically you are indirectly paying taxes on buying products.

So better consult with the legal advisors before you plan to pay your taxes for signature campaign earnings.

[Wayan_Pedjeng]

First of all, check whether Bitcoin is classified as a currency in your country or not. In 99% of the cases, it will be classified as an "asset" by the government. In such cases, the bitcoins that you receive from signature campaigns are not taxable (as long as these coins remain in your wallet).

However, the moment you convert them to fiat, the revenues from that sale become taxable. And the worst part is that whatever revenue that you receive will be 100% taxable as regular income. You can't show this amount as capital gains, to qualify for the lower tax rates.

This is my understanding of the situation. If someone disagrees with me, then please feel free to do so.

[Thirdspace]

First of all, check whether Bitcoin is classified as a currency in your country or not. In 99% of the cases, it will be classified as an "asset" by the government. In such cases, the bitcoins that you receive from signature campaigns are not taxable (as long as these coins remain in your wallet).

It doesn't matter how much you cash out, you're being paid in something with value and that's the place you're taxed.

I second gentlemand's reply to the other post, and this also applies to Wayan_Pedjeng's post
taxation happens at the time you receive something (in any forms) regarded as income or addition to your wealth
if payment is in the form of bitcoin as an asset, the value of bitcoin at the time of transaction will be used for taxation

[Netnox]

First of all, check whether Bitcoin is classified as a currency in your country or not. In 99% of the cases, it will be classified as an "asset" by the government. In such cases, the bitcoins that you receive from signature campaigns are not taxable (as long as these coins remain in your wallet).

It doesn't matter how much you cash out, you're being paid in something with value and that's the place you're taxed.

I second gentlemand's reply to the other post, and this also applies to Wayan_Pedjeng's post
taxation happens at the time you receive something (in any forms) regarded as income or addition to your wealth
if payment is in the form of bitcoin as an asset, the value of bitcoin at the time of transaction will be used for taxation

I still don't agree with this logic. Has the government recognized "Bitcoin" as an asset? Has it issued any notice stating that gains from the crypto-trading can be treated as capital gains? I am asking this because in my country only profits from stock trading, sale of bullion, sale of real estate.etc is specifically considered for capital gains. The income tax department has never issued any circular regarding Bitcoin.

And one more thing. How can they link my Bitcoin wallet or my Bitcointalk forum account back to me? What if I tell them that my father is using those accounts and I don't have any connection to them?