Bitstamp response to verification of documents - difficult to understand...

[pinger]

So..I was setting up an account with Bitstamp, since I trade on other exchanges and figured why not try them out... for a utility bill, I supplied a PDF file for Council Rates from the Australian government and I get this back from Bitstamp...

----------------
We regret to inform you that your verification request has been denied.
Reason:
Electronic version of utility bill does not meet out verification standard, please submit another utility bill (photograph or scan of physical paper bill).
----------------

Considering that most bills from Australia, certainly all of mine, come in PDF format, including bank statements, rates etc, so I can save a few trees and make life..well..just easier. Are they seriously expecting me to call one of my utility providers and ask them to send me a paper bill, so i can scan and send it to them? Are they living in this century?.. Even my compliance guy does not understand that kind of thinking...

anyone tell me why, from a compliance point of view, why this would not pass?

Same here, I just deleted my Bitstamp account. I don't know why an ID and a utility bill, first electricity and then Internet on a second attempt is not enought for them. Can be the law of UK but is a stupid law.

[sangaman]

I'm about to go through this verification process so that I can deposit via ripple, but all of my bills are electronic. Are you saying I have to print a bill out, take it to a notary and have him stamp it to prove its authentic? How would he know if it's authentic or not, anyway? I thought notaries existed to verify signatures, not to judge on whether utility bills are authentic.

Or if I mail in a printed copy of the bill, how is that any different than you just printing out the scanned copy I'd send in? It would literally be the exact same piece of paper, but physically mailing it is much more of a hassle and expense.

Other users have posted that electronic scans are acceptable according to the regulatory agencies, so what gives?

If this is the kind of nonsensical restrictions that Bitstamp is going to engage in, I would rather convert all my funds into bitcoin, withdraw, and then close my account.

[pinger]

If you haven't been regulated yet, why can't you let users who can't verify make one-time withdrawals. I'm sure you've observed that such individuals feel that you are stealing their funds. Have you been threatened with many lawsuits for this yet?

I have to leave on my account some cents of dollar. I've to gave them, who cares, but if I have some few dollars, the discussion will be other.

[pinger]

If this is the kind of nonsensical restrictions that Bitstamp is going to engage in, I would rather convert all my funds into bitcoin, withdraw, and then close my account.

Is the best you can do when some genius take some stupid action that affects others. I'm tired on stupid bureaucracy from governments so I will not start again with some private company.

[Jumpy]

If you haven't been regulated yet, why can't you let users who can't verify make one-time withdrawals. I'm sure you've observed that such individuals feel that you are stealing their funds. Have you been threatened with many lawsuits for this yet?

I have to leave on my account some cents of dollar. I've to gave them, who cares, but if I have some few dollars, the discussion will be other.

This is my situation. I have a non-zero amount of money stuck on there, but not enough to warrant a notarized translation like they are asking.

[tvbcof]

This is my situation. I have a non-zero amount of money stuck on there, but not enough to warrant a notarized translation like they are asking.

People in your situation can end up creating a pretty nice pay-day for providers if there are a lot of them.  I think we computed that Paymium ended up with like $1M from Instawallet holders that never got around to re-claiming their funds for various reasons after the (alleged) hack.  Whether this was by accident or design will probably never be known.

[Jumpy]

This is my situation. I have a non-zero amount of money stuck on there, but not enough to warrant a notarized translation like they are asking.

People in your situation can end up creating a pretty nice pay-day for providers if there are a lot of them.  I think we computed that Paymium ended up with like $1M from Instawallet holders that never got around to re-claiming their funds for various reasons after the (alleged) hack.  Whether this was by accident or design will probably never be known.

I'm legally competent enough to organize a class action suit if that's what is needed. It seems silly to act unlawfully in preparation to act lawfully.

[Nemesis]

I agree, this is BS.

If Bitstamp requires verification, then DO IT b4 allowing any deposit. Not only when the customers want to withdraw.

Bunch of crooks.

[tagbond]

actually, Bitstamp DO ask for verification to deposit Fiat funds, not sure about Crypto, haven't done that. But should give a fair warning to customers just before transferring BTC...that is what I shall be doing anyway.

[EskimoBob]

I'm about to go through this verification process so that I can deposit via ripple, but all of my bills are electronic. Are you saying I have to print a bill out, take it to a notary and have him stamp it to prove its authentic? How would he know if it's authentic or not, anyway? I thought notaries existed to verify signatures, not to judge on whether utility bills are authentic.

Or if I mail in a printed copy of the bill, how is that any different than you just printing out the scanned copy I'd send in? It would literally be the exact same piece of paper, but physically mailing it is much more of a hassle and expense.

Other users have posted that electronic scans are acceptable according to the regulatory agencies, so what gives?

If this is the kind of nonsensical restrictions that Bitstamp is going to engage in, I would rather convert all my funds into bitcoin, withdraw, and then close my account.

+1

I started to read this UK law, they are "following". At this point, all I can say is this, they (bitstamp) are absurdly overreacting and demanding stuff, that makes no sense at all.
For example, I personally have not seen a utilities bill on paper for about 10 years. Same applies to bank statements etc. I have never seen a hand written bank cheque from any local bank (that silly stuff they still use in US).

It's even more idiotic, when Bitstamp or Gox demand you to be verified if you return fiat back to the same account where it came from.
Dear Bitstamp, in this case you already have all the data you need so wtf do you need me utilities bill for? You are not the police. If this account holder fucks up somewhere else, it's not your problem. Read the AML instructions! 

At the same time, You (bitstamp) do not give us ANY guarantees, if you can't protect clients personal data. What if  you get hacked? What happens then? Thousands of high quality passport copies are spread all over the net and used by asshole criminals for who knows what. Can you imagine the magnitude of this cluster fuck of cluster fucks?

BTW, dear Bitstamp, can you please quote the paragraph, where it states that you need to ask for me passport and utilities bill, if fiat is returned to account it originated from.
And if I am not mistaken, you need to follow AML blaa blaa in UK ONLY if you (merchant) suspect something is not right.

And btw, SEPA transfer of fiat is NOT A CASH PAYMENT, transfer nor handling! It's not like I show up in your store, give you 10000 and tell you to wire it to a similar shop for Billy Sixpack or to a numbered account's to Gnomes of Zürich. SEPA transfer has all the details anyone  needs to trace it. It's from one bank verified account to another bank verified account. If bank has fucked up, it's not your problem.

I really do not understand, why do you demanding all this information that will put you and your clients in a really bad situation, if you guys fuck up (get hacked).

[de_xt]

I started to read this UK law, they are "following". At this point, all I can say is this, they (bitstamp) are absurdly overreacting and demanding stuff, that makes no sense at all.
For example, I personally have not seen a utilities bill on paper for about 10 years. Same applies to bank statements etc. I have never seen a hand written bank cheque from any local bank (that silly stuff they still use in US).

Unfortunately, most companies dealing with electronic money and following AML guidelines are requesting such paper documents.

I was requested verification from OKPay and Skrill, for example. OKPay denied a printed electronic bill and had to send a scanned paper bill from a different address (had to change my address on my account, though). Skrill denied a legit paper document claiming it was a scanned printed copy, which was not the case, and closed my account (they stole me 300 eur in the process -- beware of Skrill).

Most utility companies here (Spain) send electronic bills that can be verified by the sender using a secure and unique code. However, it's clear that AML guidelines must be updated to allow these -- they are stuck on the stone age regarding address verification.

My 2 cents.

[pinger]

I started to read this UK law, they are "following". At this point, all I can say is this, they (bitstamp) are absurdly overreacting and demanding stuff, that makes no sense at all.
For example, I personally have not seen a utilities bill on paper for about 10 years. Same applies to bank statements etc. I have never seen a hand written bank cheque from any local bank (that silly stuff they still use in US).

Unfortunately, most companies dealing with electronic money and following AML guidelines are requesting such paper documents.

I was requested verification from OKPay and Skrill, for example. OKPay denied a printed electronic bill and had to send a scanned paper bill from a different address (had to change my address on my account, though). Skrill denied a legit paper document claiming it was a scanned printed copy, which was not the case, and closed my account (they stole me 300 eur in the process -- beware of Skrill).

Most utility companies here (Spain) send electronic bills that can be verified by the sender using a secure and unique code. However, it's clear that AML guidelines must be updated to allow these -- they are stuck on the stone age regarding address verification.

My 2 cents.

+1 In Spain mosts companies just send electronic Bill.

[Sukrim]

I am quite sure you can demand a physical bill as well, however most of them try to do it electronically only to avoid both postage and attention - it seems people skim over their emails much easier than their physical mail.

[pinger]

I am quite sure you can demand a physical bill as well, however most of them try to do it electronically only to avoid both postage and attention - it seems people skim over their emails much easier than their physical mail.

In mosts cases, in companies with electronical bill, they make you pay if you ask for a physical one.

[sangaman]

Just to update everyone, I sent in a pdf of my electricity bill. I downloaded it from my account online, so technically I didn't scan it, but it was exactly how their paper bill looks like. In other words, it wasn't like some bill designed to be displayed in a browser or online only or anything, it was my bill. When they mail paper bills, I'm sure they just print that pdf and put it in the mail.

Anyway, I sent in this electronic pdf of my paper bill along with a scan of my drivers license. Bitstamp denied my verification request on the grounds that I wasn't allowed to send in an electronic bill, as I feared they might.

So I took that same pdf, printed it out, scanned it, and saved it as a jpg. The jpg was high quality and looked almost indistinguishable from the pdf, besides file format. I then submitted this jpg along with my drivers license.

This time they accepted my verification request. Thanks for making me waste some time/paper/ink for your nonsensical verification requirements, bitstamp!

I wonder if I could have just screenshotted the pdf and saved the screenshot as a jpg...

[pinger]

Just to update everyone, I sent in a pdf of my electricity bill. I downloaded it from my account online, so technically I didn't scan it, but it was exactly how their paper bill looks like. In other words, it wasn't like some bill designed to be displayed in a browser or online only or anything, it was my bill. When they mail paper bills, I'm sure they just print that pdf and put it in the mail.

Anyway, I sent in this electronic pdf of my paper bill along with a scan of my drivers license. Bitstamp denied my verification request on the grounds that I wasn't allowed to send in an electronic bill, as I feared they might.

So I took that same pdf, printed it out, scanned it, and saved it as a jpg. The jpg was high quality and looked almost indistinguishable from the pdf, besides file format. I then submitted this jpg along with my drivers license.

This time they accepted my verification request. Thanks for making me waste some time/paper/ink for your nonsensical verification requirements, bitstamp!

I wonder if I could have just screenshotted the pdf and saved the screenshot as a jpg...

Next time just change your address and your ID before printing it. This verification is the  most stupid verification ever.

[EskimoBob]

Just to update everyone, I sent in a pdf of my electricity bill. I downloaded it from my account online, so technically I didn't scan it, but it was exactly how their paper bill looks like. In other words, it wasn't like some bill designed to be displayed in a browser or online only or anything, it was my bill. When they mail paper bills, I'm sure they just print that pdf and put it in the mail.

Anyway, I sent in this electronic pdf of my paper bill along with a scan of my drivers license. Bitstamp denied my verification request on the grounds that I wasn't allowed to send in an electronic bill, as I feared they might.

So I took that same pdf, printed it out, scanned it, and saved it as a jpg. The jpg was high quality and looked almost indistinguishable from the pdf, besides file format. I then submitted this jpg along with my drivers license.

This time they accepted my verification request. Thanks for making me waste some time/paper/ink for your nonsensical verification requirements, bitstamp!

I wonder if I could have just screenshotted the pdf and saved the screenshot as a jpg...

Next time just change your address and your ID before printing it. This verification is the  most stupid verification ever.

It is a perfect example how retarded the whole process is. It serves nothing, helps no one. Only thing accomplished by this song and dance is putting us all in possible harms way - identity deft.

I really hope they reconsider and update this idiotic "identification" process circus to something more reliable.

[pinger]

Just to update everyone, I sent in a pdf of my electricity bill. I downloaded it from my account online, so technically I didn't scan it, but it was exactly how their paper bill looks like. In other words, it wasn't like some bill designed to be displayed in a browser or online only or anything, it was my bill. When they mail paper bills, I'm sure they just print that pdf and put it in the mail.

Anyway, I sent in this electronic pdf of my paper bill along with a scan of my drivers license. Bitstamp denied my verification request on the grounds that I wasn't allowed to send in an electronic bill, as I feared they might.

So I took that same pdf, printed it out, scanned it, and saved it as a jpg. The jpg was high quality and looked almost indistinguishable from the pdf, besides file format. I then submitted this jpg along with my drivers license.

This time they accepted my verification request. Thanks for making me waste some time/paper/ink for your nonsensical verification requirements, bitstamp!

I wonder if I could have just screenshotted the pdf and saved the screenshot as a jpg...

Next time just change your address and your ID before printing it. This verification is the  most stupid verification ever.

It is a perfect example how retarded the whole process is. It serves nothing, helps no one. Only thing accomplished by this song and dance is putting us all in possible harms way - identity deft.

I really hope they reconsider and update this idiotic "identification" process circus to something more reliable.

After they reject my identification after sending all the documentation, I just close my account, I don't want to deal with retarded company's, I have enough with retarded governments.

[ajw7989]

I am quite sure you can demand a physical bill as well, however most of them try to do it electronically only to avoid both postage and attention - it seems people skim over their emails much easier than their physical mail.

In mosts cases, in companies with electronical bill, they make you pay if you ask for a physical one.

a lot of people print the .pdf of their electronic bill print it then scan it and send them that. It works but hey I know not very convienent