Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust on Bloomberg

[CryptoMinter]

Gee I really want to invest in this shady market, but it's not really shady, it just looks shady so could you go bust some guys doing bad things with it?

[adamstgBit]

Gee I really want to invest in this shady market, but it's not really shady, it just looks shady so could you go bust some guys doing bad things with it?

bitcoin is used for shady deals, it will continue to be used for that, because it works.

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZfg1Gtcg08

[User705]

...

next step?  what are you talking about?  you act like there's some grand plan that is being executed to rob ppl of their BTC.  and who exactly is behind this?  the Winklevii in cahoots with the gubmint?  ridiculous.

if this ETF gets approved, it's to the moon.  it's too late to prevent private ownership of Bitcoin.  ask the Chinese.

There is no grand plan.  Government could care less about a few billion in total bitcoins.  But you think that bitcoin can reach a few trillion without more regulation from the government?  Bitcoin is unregulateable but so are drugs and that hasn't stopped most governments from trying.

[windjc]

...

next step?  what are you talking about?  you act like there's some grand plan that is being executed to rob ppl of their BTC.  and who exactly is behind this?  the Winklevii in cahoots with the gubmint?  ridiculous.

if this ETF gets approved, it's to the moon.  it's too late to prevent private ownership of Bitcoin.  ask the Chinese.

There is no grand plan.  Government could care less about a few billion in total bitcoins.  But you think that bitcoin can reach a few trillion without more regulation from the government?  Bitcoin is unregulateable but so are drugs and that hasn't stopped most governments from trying.

Regulation is exactly what Bitcoin needs if its going to grow fast. All the major players are begging for regulation and rulings.

[cypherdoc]

...

next step?  what are you talking about?  you act like there's some grand plan that is being executed to rob ppl of their BTC.  and who exactly is behind this?  the Winklevii in cahoots with the gubmint?  ridiculous.

if this ETF gets approved, it's to the moon.  it's too late to prevent private ownership of Bitcoin.  ask the Chinese.

There is no grand plan.  Government could care less about a few billion in total bitcoins.  But you think that bitcoin can reach a few trillion without more regulation from the government?  Bitcoin is unregulateable but so are drugs and that hasn't stopped most governments from trying.

Regulation is exactly what Bitcoin needs if its going to grow fast. All the major players are begging for regulation and rulings.

the problem with this is that regulators have this bad habit of moving the goalposts to protect their own private interests. 

Bitcoin was designed to circumvent this which is why so many businesses that you refer to are having a hard time.  ex:  Bitinstant

[adamstgBit]

...

next step?  what are you talking about?  you act like there's some grand plan that is being executed to rob ppl of their BTC.  and who exactly is behind this?  the Winklevii in cahoots with the gubmint?  ridiculous.

if this ETF gets approved, it's to the moon.  it's too late to prevent private ownership of Bitcoin.  ask the Chinese.

There is no grand plan.  Government could care less about a few billion in total bitcoins.  But you think that bitcoin can reach a few trillion without more regulation from the government?  Bitcoin is unregulateable but so are drugs and that hasn't stopped most governments from trying.

Regulation is exactly what Bitcoin needs if its going to grow fast. All the major players are begging for regulation and rulings.

the problem with this is that regulators have this bad habit of moving the goalposts to protect their own private interests. 

Bitcoin was designed to circumvent this which is why so many businesses that you refer to are having a hard time.  ex:  Bitinstant

give them some coins, problem solved.

[wachtwoord]

Did anyone read the SEC filing? Check the prospectus summary. The sponsor of the trust is a company founded in May 2013 that is wholly owned by the Winkeloss twins. Funny how this works, you need a sponsor to start a trust but you can just start another company to do the sponsoring. Seem really useful ...

[darkmule]

Did anyone read the SEC filing? Check the prospectus summary. The sponsor of the trust is a company founded in May 2013 that is wholly owned by the Winkeloss twins. Funny how this works, you need a sponsor to start a trust but you can just start another company to do the sponsoring. Seem really useful ...

One of the primary purposes of a corporation is to have a separate legal personality, so a corporation, even one you control, has a separate legal existence.  Do the paperwork right and it can even take the fall for you in times of legal or financial trouble.

[HashFast_CL]

I think they are saying the Wrinklevoss are pumping the price up so they can sell. those who buy into the trust.. well, too bad

If this were the case, it would have been dumb of Winklevoss to announce that they have a 1% stake in Bitcoin.

I saw the twins speak at the San Jose conference.  

They get it.  They grok Bitcoin, from its reasons for existing to the massive implications its existence entails.

They didn't need to be there talking to a room of pimply crypto-uber-nerds, but they are true believers and did so anyway.

They are with us, not against us.  Remember, these two Harvard grads are very smart, and rich, and invented Facebook.

They could have been in Aspen or Gstaad instead, enjoying their massive wealth.  Instead, they chose to join the revolution.

I respect that.

[FNG]

They could have been in Aspen or Gstaad instead, enjoying their massive wealth.  Instead, they chose to join the revolution.

I respect that.

They're trying to become Billionaires

They'll make many of us wealthy in the process if the ETF gets approved

[wachtwoord]

Did anyone read the SEC filing? Check the prospectus summary. The sponsor of the trust is a company founded in May 2013 that is wholly owned by the Winkeloss twins. Funny how this works, you need a sponsor to start a trust but you can just start another company to do the sponsoring. Seem really useful ...

One of the primary purposes of a corporation is to have a separate legal personality, so a corporation, even one you control, has a separate legal existence.  Do the paperwork right and it can even take the fall for you in times of legal or financial trouble.

Yup.

For ownership I know that.

What's the use for a sponsor though? From the wording I assumed a sponsor was required to show you could find another entity which backs you up.

[darkmule]

What's the use for a sponsor though? From the wording I assumed a sponsor was required to show you could find another entity which backs you up.

Usually, having a "good" sponsor is important because most ETF sponsors are experienced in the field.  This new sponsor entity has never done this kind of work, so to the extent that's a plus for an EFT, this entity lacks it.  However, even entities experienced in this kind of instrument have never done a Bitcoin EFT, so the whole project is terra incognita, even to the "Big Boys." 

I think it can and should be treated (at least by the stodgy fund guys) as what it is, a high-risk, high-yield investment opportunity, and given the proper place in a portfolio based on that.  The fund is higher risk than BTC itself, IMO, because of the not insubstantial risk of the Winklevoss twins or their people themselves somehow screwing up, losing the keys, or getting hacked, because their trove of coin is going to be a fat, juicy target.

[kokojie]

What's the use for a sponsor though? From the wording I assumed a sponsor was required to show you could find another entity which backs you up.

Usually, having a "good" sponsor is important because most ETF sponsors are experienced in the field.  This new sponsor entity has never done this kind of work, so to the extent that's a plus for an EFT, this entity lacks it.  However, even entities experienced in this kind of instrument have never done a Bitcoin EFT, so the whole project is terra incognita, even to the "Big Boys." 

I think it can and should be treated (at least by the stodgy fund guys) as what it is, a high-risk, high-yield investment opportunity, and given the proper place in a portfolio based on that.  The fund is higher risk than BTC itself, IMO, because of the not insubstantial risk of the Winklevoss twins or their people themselves somehow screwing up, losing the keys, or getting hacked, because their trove of coin is going to be a fat, juicy target.

The twins has owned 1% of Bitcoin for years, without screwing up. I don't think they'll start now

[prophetx]

I think they are saying the Wrinklevoss are pumping the price up so they can sell. those who buy into the trust.. well, too bad

If this were the case, it would have been dumb of Winklevoss to announce that they have a 1% stake in Bitcoin.

it is in the regulatory filing, they don't exactly have a choice...

[darkmule]

The twins has owned 1% of Bitcoin for years, without screwing up. I don't think they'll start now

They're likely to end up having more than they have now.  That might be the number one target in the world for an electronic heist, especially considering the potential for actually getting away with it.

[mgio]

This ETF, if approved, will be the thing that takes bitcoin to the next level.

It's amazing how many people here don't get that. They don't like the Winklevoss twins because they saw that movie and think they are money-grubbing assholes. But they Winklevoss twins are smart and they get it.

This ETF will take bitcoin's value from the hundreds to the thousands overnight. Possibly even tens of thousands.

For most of us, buying the real thing directly is better that buying shares in an ETF.

But this opens up bitcoin to everyone who isn't sophisticated enough or doesn't have the time to go through all the steps to open up an account on a exchange, wire money to a foreign country, and manage their own wallet.

This lets your grandmother invest in bitcoin.

My mother has been reading about bitcoin in the news and she has repeatedly asked how she can buy some. I basically just tell her that I will sell her some when I see her at Thanksgiving. Her friends have been e-mailing me too, asking if they should invest in bitcoin and how they can buy them.

This ETF would let them invest much more easily than it is now and even more importantly it would allow the trillions in retirement fund accounts to invest in bitcoin!

As someone said earlier, most American families do not have the liquid cash to go out and buy bitcoins. But many of them do have 401ks and IRAs which could invest in this ETF.

The price should also stabilize a bit as the size of the market grows a couple of orders of magnitude. Bitcoin will also be finally seen as legitimate to institutional investors and that should help it stabilize too.

This ETF is a wonderful thing for bitcoin.

[David Rabahy]

There's no need to wait; SecondMarket can get IRA into Bitcoin through partners now.

[cypherdoc]

There's no need to wait; SecondMarket can get IRA into Bitcoin through partners now.

really?  link?

[wachtwoord]

There's no need to wait; SecondMarket can get IRA into Bitcoin through partners now.

Only if your net worth is quite high.

[Minor Miner]

The ETF will add liquidity and will allow people to invest the capital necessary to get things like migrant worker payment systems in place and hopefully a true merchant processing competitor.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting.  When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial.   Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie.   If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing.   If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver.   This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.     
Now think this about this.   If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins.   What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin?  Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size.   But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there.   Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.