Where are the coins for Winkelvoss Trust & 2nd Market Bitcoin Investment Fund?

[darkmule]

Also if a bitcoin participant understands so little as to be unable to do basic transactions and cold storage it's pretty clear they can't possibly be an informed "investor" in bitcoin.  Do you disagree?

Yes.  All an investor generally has to know when arranging a portfolio is how assets have performed in the past and how they can be expected to perform in the future, especially in relation to other assets.  Especially when a portfolio is diverse, a certain number of mistakes is tolerable, especially when someone has a small position in something volatile or as a hedge, because say, gold performs well when stocks perform poorly. 

I think that an investor who simply decided BTC is likely to increase in value in the long term while experiencing a lot of short-term volatility, who knew nothing else about it, and invested some portion of a portfolio in it based solely on that assumption, would probably do just fine.

By comparison, someone who wanted to invest more substantially, or to do things like day trading BTC, would be foolish not to know more than that.

[User705]

That's like advocating people invest in Ponzi schemes since past returns were so great and there's no need to explore any further.  One is bound to get lucky once in a while and sell before the collapse.  I bet you'd jump on anyone calling bitcoin a Ponzi but it's ok for them to "invest" in Bitcoin with no idea about it?

[darkmule]

That's like advocating people invest in Ponzi schemes since past returns were so great and there's no need to explore any further.  One is bound to get lucky once in a while and sell before the collapse.  I bet you'd jump on anyone calling bitcoin a Ponzi but it's ok for them to "invest" in Bitcoin with no idea about it?

I'm not the one claiming investing in Bitcoin is like investing in a Ponzi.  That would be you.

Many if not most investors invest in at least some of the assets they own, directly or indirectly, with less than perfect knowledge of the asset.  Is everyone with stock in an automobile company an expert in automotive engineering who could invent a car top to bottom?  Is everyone who invests in Google or Apple an expert in search engines or computers? 

Anyone who invests in a mutual fund is invested in dozens if not hundreds of different assets, and often as not, don't know much more than the general composition of the fund, much less are experts in every aspect of the business of every single stock they own.  To claim that they have to be is ludicrous on its face.

[User705]

Getting off-topic.  Certainly one can understand a bitcoin ETF.  It should have bitcoins.  Where are they?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Getting off-topic.  Certainly one can understand a bitcoin ETF.  It should have bitcoins.  Where are they?

The fund doesn't exist yet.  The funds doesn't own any Bitcoins. 

[User705]

Both of them?

[windjc]

Both of them?

Dude get over it. Seriously. Let it go.

[windjc]

This entire thread about funds existing is retarded.

[wildbud]

IRA investing seems to be a good point for tax mitigation if you are ok with exposing your bitcoin ownership.  Options couldn't hurt either.  But wouldn't you want you know where these coins are or no?

An ability to invest in bitcoin through your IRA is a HUGE bonus

[User705]

This entire thread about funds existing is retarded.

If the funds already have the coins then the new investors that perhaps would have bought btc directly will not and all other things equal the exchange rate will not increase or perhaps even decrease.  If the funds don't have the coins then they have to acquire them on the open market after they launch.