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Author Topic: Dwolla reversing transactions?  (Read 4727 times)
oneforall
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July 25, 2011, 11:47:22 PM
 #1

Does anyone know any more details of this? i just heard about it from 'K' in the onlyonetv thread(http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5952.160), apparently wagner is interviewing TH right now about it, but it is too choppy for me so i cant watch.. anyone know who they screwed by reversing transactions? did they do it once or a bunch? there is no mention of it on tradehills blog..

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July 25, 2011, 11:54:19 PM
 #2

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.
Keyur @ Camp BX
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July 26, 2011, 12:10:05 AM
 #3

Dwolla scandal update: Camp BX is not affected by this, and every dollar is accounted for.

Hoping the same for other Bitcoin sites!

Thank you,
     Keyur


Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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July 26, 2011, 12:32:11 AM
 #4

To clarify the name shown on that onlyonetv.com  video was a confirmed scammer by Dwolla.
We haven't released anyone else's information.


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Donald_Norman
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July 26, 2011, 12:35:17 AM
 #5

Intersango.us the USD site which is the free exchange accepting Dwolla (run by the same guys as the long time no problems website Britcoin) has not been affected by this and all the money is there.
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July 26, 2011, 12:36:57 AM
 #6

Jared, some screening must be put in place to try to prevent this from happening in the future, and whoever effectively reverses transaction put on a blacklist and shared among other exchanges. then people think twice before trying to pull these scams
bbit
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July 26, 2011, 12:37:43 AM
 #7

Thanks CampBX & intersango for the update to of the exchanges I'm going with Smiley
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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July 26, 2011, 12:41:18 AM
 #8

Jared, some screening must be put in place to try to prevent this from happening in the future, and whoever effectively reverses transaction put on a blacklist and shared among other exchanges. then people think twice before trying to pull these scams

We have and we've almost eliminated it completely.
We're willing to work with the other exchanges on this.

Jered

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elements
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July 26, 2011, 12:42:40 AM
 #9

Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").

(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)

Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.

»A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.« - Douglas Adams
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Trader Steve
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July 26, 2011, 12:49:29 AM
 #10

Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").

(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)

Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.

The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger.

Use services like:

http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.com
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July 26, 2011, 12:51:17 AM
 #11

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.

"reversed" by who and why?  Dwolla or a hacker or a customer?

"they" meaning who?
Trader Steve
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July 26, 2011, 12:51:56 AM
 #12

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.

"reversed" by who and why?  Dwolla or a hacker or a customer?

"they" meaning who?

dwolla is reversing transactions
cypherdoc
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July 26, 2011, 12:52:29 AM
 #13

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.

"reversed" by who and why?  Dwolla or a hacker or a customer?

"they" meaning who?

dwolla is reversing transactions


why are they doing that?
netrin
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July 26, 2011, 12:53:30 AM
 #14

Hi Jered, As a TradeHill customer I have generally appreciated your openness in the past. As for what ever is going on regarding Dwolla, I'm not cool with your stance to let Bruce Wagner speak on your behalf (whether you are on the show or not). I believe we deserve clear, immediate information in writing on your site from the horses mouth. I hope you will agree.

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July 26, 2011, 12:54:22 AM
 #15

Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").

(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)

Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.

The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger.

Use services like:

http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.com


This might be partly true - but only for small amounts.

I most certainly will not meet with someone in a cafe or MacDonalds (WiFi) carrying a suitcase full of money (not that this an issue at the moment but still...)

The most volume will be exchanged on the big exchanges at least for the foreseeable future.
So I am still pro red phone!

»A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.« - Douglas Adams
Use the trusted German Bitcoin exchange: https://www.bitcoin.de/de/r/5wcwts
Tips & donations: BTC : 1MAQYNLp2VJ9wWhPYg5BnrbUGzdhGXopZw | CGB: 5bgQivyHJcSWTgvLfVW87Zj23M7mcFCVBF
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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July 26, 2011, 12:54:59 AM
 #16

Hi Jered, As a TradeHill customer I have generally appreciated your openness in the past. As for what ever is going on regarding Dwolla, I'm not cool with your stance to let Bruce Wagner speak on your behalf (whether you are on the show or not). I believe we deserve clear, immediate information in writing on your site from the horses mouth. I hope you will agree.

Working on a blog post right now.
I agree and thank you for your comment.

moneyandtech.com
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Trader Steve
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July 26, 2011, 12:56:31 AM
 #17

Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").

(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)

Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.

The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger.

Use services like:

http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.com


This might be partly true - but only for small amounts.

I most certainly will not meet with someone in a cafe or MacDonalds (WiFi) carrying a suitcase full of money (not that this an issue at the moment but still...)

The most volume will be exchanged on the big exchanges at least for the foreseeable future.
So I am still pro red phone!

As mentioned on a previous chat, bullion dealers and pawn shops would be ideal businesses to offer this service. Bitcoin exchanges work like gold - which is something they understand - and these types of business already have all the security measures in place. Pawn shops and bullion dealers are you listening? Here is a great opportunity for you!
Trader Steve
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July 26, 2011, 12:59:37 AM
 #18

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.

"reversed" by who and why?  Dwolla or a hacker or a customer?

"they" meaning who?

dwolla is reversing transactions


why are they doing that?

Their business model does not allow for irreversible transactions - they are tied to the banks and are subject to "clawback" provisions of fraudulent transactions. It looks like cash and wire transfer are the most reliable types of transactions. The other problem is that Dwolla has been mis-representing (perhaps unintentionally?) themselves on this issue. There are likely strong legal claims that can be brought against dwolla by merchants and the exchanges who suffer losses.
Trader Steve
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July 26, 2011, 01:00:56 AM
 #19

copying post from the Bitcoin show thread

hopefully have my facts straight:

tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.

"reversed" by who and why?  Dwolla or a hacker or a customer?

"they" meaning who?

dwolla is reversing transactions


why are they doing that?

Their business model does not allow for irreversible transactions - they are tied to the banks and are subject to "clawback" provisions of fraudulent transactions. It looks like cash and wire transfer are the most reliable types of transactions. The other problem is that Dwolla has been mis-representing themselves on this issue. There are likely strong legal claims that can be brought against dwolla by merchants and the exchanges who suffer losses.


Also, of important note, it would be wise to pull your money out of dwolla as they might be subject to, not only legal claims, but a run on their bank account. If they do not have "dollar for dollar" backing of their accounts then you could be in for a big surprise.
elements
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July 26, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
 #20

Hi Jered, As a TradeHill customer I have generally appreciated your openness in the past. As for what ever is going on regarding Dwolla, I'm not cool with your stance to let Bruce Wagner speak on your behalf (whether you are on the show or not). I believe we deserve clear, immediate information in writing on your site from the horses mouth. I hope you will agree.

I agree with you in so far as they should inform all their customers in writing (which I am sure they will do asap).


BUT since this incident affects the whole Bitcoin economy not only TradeHill it was absolutely right from an economical point of view to go on air and inform everyone at the same time.

Since The Bitcoin Show is like THE Bitcoin News at the moment the medium was well chosen!

TradeHill gained a significant amount of points in my cool book!

»A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.« - Douglas Adams
Use the trusted German Bitcoin exchange: https://www.bitcoin.de/de/r/5wcwts
Tips & donations: BTC : 1MAQYNLp2VJ9wWhPYg5BnrbUGzdhGXopZw | CGB: 5bgQivyHJcSWTgvLfVW87Zj23M7mcFCVBF
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