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Author Topic: ASIC Manufacturers, one hit wonders?  (Read 777 times)
xstr8guy (OP)
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October 24, 2013, 08:23:17 AM
 #1

It seems like we're seeing a trend now that we've had several successful launches with Avalon, ASICMiner, Bitfury and KNC.  The first batch of devices are released, early delivery buyers are happy, difficulty rises sharply, later delivery buyers are pissed and everyone threatens to never buy from them again.

Not that I feel sorry for the ASIC makers, they've all profited handsomely in a very short time.  But I don't think any of them will survive long enough to successfully release a second generation.  The next company in the release schedule simply replaces them until they themselves are replaced by the next... HashFast, Cointerra, etc.
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October 24, 2013, 08:38:33 AM
 #2

There isnt going to be a next round after HF, CT, and all the other 28nm asics. Whats coming to the market over the next weeks/months is about as good as its going to get for the foreseeable future, at least for many years. Prices will drop obviously, and sales may continue for a long time at lower prices, but there is not going to be another performance or efficiency leap and its probably too late for any new player to step in now.
xstr8guy (OP)
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October 24, 2013, 09:56:15 AM
 #3

I don't think what just happened has really sunk in with a lot of pre-order folks yet.  You've seen a few people running for the exit in the case of KnC late October and November, some people starting to perk up their refund radar around Hashfast's delay, but mostly, still waiting.  What can they do?

This isn't a bloodbath, this is mass miner genocide we've just witnessed.  KnC delivered more hashrate than most, if not all, outsiders expected with batch 1.  They (Sam) gave an estimate to CoinDesk in late June of 450 TH/s.  It's looking easily like 2 PH/s+ just like the others.  The closed order book probably caused even some experienced miners to underestimate the delivery.  I personally had it pegged for 1.6 PH/s.

Hashfast delivers -sometime- in November.  No unit will ROI in 90 days.  If they are solvent, they bump basically every BJ order to 2 TH/s.  This changes their batch 1 2.2 PH/s delivery into a 11.4 PH/s delivery.  Cointerra delivers 2.4 PH/s.  Your 1 TH/s + mining farm, Sierra, whatever is now making zero point oh naught BTC per day.  Plus KnC November, if there are still people trapped and/or waiting it out (there are, I guarantee it.)  Maybe BFL even delivers their Cointerra Monarch early next year, who knows.  Hasfast and Cointerra have second batches as well.

Even at sub $1/GH/s pricing, if even possible, Bitcoin prices are going to need to rally hard core to get more new money in mining rigs.   Tenths of a Bitcoin per month will need to pay for mining gear.  This is at least a 20 PH/s network without mass refunding/lawsuits/insolvency/violence in the meantime.  These companies are not likely to go out of business right away; they didn't risk their own money in most cases - look at how well BFL has held on.  They are going to deliver your miners and you are going to eat it.  The network will be more secure.  We (mostly) will all be more poor.  ASIC companies will weather the storm sitting on fat stacks of cash, or simply cash out, having fleeced enough already.  Bitcoin will rise, new money will come, and the cycle will repeat, in a milder fashion.

Here's my back of the napkin KnC Saturn ROI calcs for those who need to further counteract any anti-depressants they might be taking.

I had personally hoped, as I watched the HF order book build, that I had grossly overestimated KnC batch 1 hashrate.  The results are in, and mining has turned into one UGLY game nearly overnight.  Keep calm and carry on, as they say.

Nice post.

I'm a hobbyist miner and I personally don't find the situation all that tragic.  Of course I didn't invest as much in mining gear as many others have.  I bought my first ASIC gear with dollars and continued to buy more gear with BTC that I earned.  Of course I'd have more BTC saved if I hadn't reinvested it.

But with BTC price rising now, I'm quite happy.  And no, I don't buy into the whole "you'd be better off buying BTC instead of mining" theory.  I tried that for a while and found it horribly boring.  I'm not a 'buy-and-hold' kind of guy.  I was more of a 'buy high, sell low' kind of guy, lol.

Anyways, I'm sitting out the next couple of rounds of this ASIC madness.  I've had my rush of excitement and I'm now content to watch my BTC balance grow slowly and wait for my next poorly planned purchase to (hopefully) arrive... BFL (Cointerra?) Monarch.  It was a 65nm trade-up for a late April order so I just traded one worthless order for another.  Oh well, I'm not losing any sleep.

Btw, is the Monarch really going to be powered by a Cointerra chip or is that just a guess?
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October 24, 2013, 08:11:59 PM
 #4

Not really, but at the end of the day only one or two will prevail and the rest will go under.   This is a cut throat industry and at 2014 we will have the bitcoin equivalents of AMD/nVidia or AMD/Intel remaining, with the rest driving their families into bankruptcy.

At the moment it looks like KnC and Bitfury (if the latter shrinks to 28 nm it will wreck KnC in efficiency), but who knows?

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October 24, 2013, 09:15:14 PM
 #5

Just as with GPUs...the race moves towards fpgas utilizing scrypt however there needs to be a magnitude of 3-5X of a GPU for an FPGA scrypt miner to be efficient something along the lines of 2000 KH or more for a few grand. just a Grand.  also the power requirements will have to also match the efficiency curve too in order for the premium in cost to be worthwhile.  I could easily buy 600 KHs 7950s for a couple hundred each.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127737

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