Where are the new Custom Hardware vendors?

[reactor]

Call me curious, but where are new vendors?  BFL is still in wtf territory, people are trying to recoup from their Avalon investments, Bitfury is raging but not really profitable, KNC is fixing their issues but proved very sloppy in their roll out, and a few other are close to shipping but sans hardware in hands for verification, but if you looked around here a few months back it seemed like there was a new ASIC vendor popping up every other week.  Even AM has fallen out of the spotlight and is more of a footnote in mining (or a joke on the group buy section).

We've seen the "must happen" rise in price to make people feel better about their hardware, but what we're not seeing is what comes next.  If it takes 3-6 months from design to implementation and delivery, nobody is talking about the February-May time-frame next year whatsoever other than current companies who will be selling the same exact machines at a lower profit margin.

Since I haven't been around since the days of CPU mining being viable, what do the old-timers think about this?  Is this about what it was like in the GPU era, a slew of excitement followed by a long, dark path where nobody knows what comes next because nothing really pans out value-wise?

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[xstr8guy]

Preorder money dried up because of market over-saturation and spiking difficulty.  It's probably not possible to raise enough preorder funds to cover NRE costs.

I suspect we'll even see some of the current ASIC vendors close shop in the next couple of months and some preorders may just fizzle out before they can come to market.  It will make the bASIC fiasco look like a picnic.  Prepare for the coming bloodbath.

[BBQKorv]

Yep, buy only what they can ship immediately. With the current and coming difficulty levels you can't afford a delay with unfinished pre-order product.

Profitability is going down even more, just because more people are dividing that 25BTC per block with all their shiny new ASICs.

[Inaba]

People are finding out it's not as easy to create a brand new product as they would have you believe, that's what's happening.  Even the people using others IP can't bring products to market (Look at Bicknellski's failed ventures) with all of the parts already laid out for them, much less create anything from scratch.

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

[donch]

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

[mrb]

We, TAV, are one of the "new" vendors!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303376.0

[xzempt]

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

BFL  dont stir the pot please.... you are the last person that should be casting stones...

[Inaba]

Oh really?  As one of the few shipping ASIC vendors, I think that makes me qualified to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have you done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

[donch]

Oh really?  As one of the few shipping ASIC vendors, I think that makes me qualified to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have you done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

Someone's wearing big boy pants today.

[klondike_bar]

People are finding out it's not as easy to create a brand new product as they would have you believe, that's what's happening.  Even the people using others IP can't bring products to market (Look at Bicknellski's failed ventures) with all of the parts already laid out for them, much less create anything from scratch.

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

1) create product [check]
2) bring to market [....uh....check?]
3) fulfill all pre-orders and sell from in-hand stock [i guess in two weeks...right now you are shipping preorders 2-4months later than initially 'promised'/suggested]
4) take preorders on next-gen product that is rediculously overpriced by today's standards, and promise to deliver it before the 110nm preorders are filled

[Vagnavs]

Oh really?  As one of the few shipping ASIC vendors, I think that makes me qualified to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have you done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

yes, but if you create products that have negative ROI. What good are your products? It shouldn't take a year or so for people to get what they pay for. Anyhow, we won't go there. There is a thread called "BFL fucks everyone over" where your fan base is.

[Inaba]

People are finding out it's not as easy to create a brand new product as they would have you believe, that's what's happening.  Even the people using others IP can't bring products to market (Look at Bicknellski's failed ventures) with all of the parts already laid out for them, much less create anything from scratch.

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

1) create product [check]
2) bring to market [....uh....check?]
3) fulfill all pre-orders and sell from in-hand stock [i guess in two weeks...right now you are shipping preorders 2-4months later than initially 'promised'/suggested]
4) take preorders on next-gen product that is rediculously overpriced by today's standards, and promise to deliver it before the 110nm preorders are filled

Can you point to a vendor that's doing number 3 now?  Are you seriously complaining that because demand is exceeding supply, it is somehow the vendors fault?

As for 4, I have no idea what you are talking about. BFL doesn't have any 110nm products and again, are you seriously complaining about the fact that people are paying money for a given product and the vendor charges what people will pay... but it's "overpriced" even though people are paying it?  If it was overpriced, people wouldn't buy it - that is simple economics.  If you think it's over priced, don't buy it.  The majority of the market disagrees with you, so that makes you the one that is incorrect. 

So basically points 3 and 4 are invalid and you have proven my point.

[shapemaker]

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

That explains then why BFL is the laughing stock of the ASIC market

How's the PayPal refunds going btw?

[klondike_bar]

People are finding out it's not as easy to create a brand new product as they would have you believe, that's what's happening.  Even the people using others IP can't bring products to market (Look at Bicknellski's failed ventures) with all of the parts already laid out for them, much less create anything from scratch.

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

1) create product [check]
2) bring to market [....uh....check?]
3) fulfill all pre-orders and sell from in-hand stock [i guess in two weeks...right now you are shipping preorders 2-4months later than initially 'promised'/suggested]
4) take preorders on next-gen product that is rediculously overpriced by today's standards, and promise to deliver it before the 110nm preorders are filled

Can you point to a vendor that's doing number 3 now?  Are you seriously complaining that because demand is exceeding supply, it is somehow the vendors fault?

As for 4, I have no idea what you are talking about. BFL doesn't have any 110nm products and again, are you seriously complaining about the fact that people are paying money for a given product and the vendor charges what people will pay... but it's "overpriced" even though people are paying it?  If it was overpriced, people wouldn't buy it - that is simple economics.  If you think it's over priced, don't buy it.  The majority of the market disagrees with you, so that makes you the one that is incorrect. 

So basically points 3 and 4 are invalid and you have proven my point.

you cant be serious? asicminer, bitfury, and avalon are all selling units that are available immediately.

[donch]

If it was overpriced (ed: the Monarch), people wouldn't buy it - that is simple economics.  If you think it's over priced, don't buy it.  The majority of the market disagrees with you, so that makes you the one that is incorrect. 

The majority of the market is buying the Monarch? Interesting. Having another spreadsheet moment, Josh? Maths, words, difficulty. I know. It's ok, you make us all laugh and entertain us. We love you for it.

[Bitsaurus]

Oh really?  As one of the few shipping ASIC vendors, I think that makes me qualified to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have you done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

How loose your definitions are.   By shipping, do you mean shipping stuff today for items that were ordered almost a year ago?  Shipping items in variations much different than what was ordered?  Shipping out hardware that mines for 2 days and then dies and have to wait 8 days for someday just to issue an RMA even after requesting in email, forums, shoutbox, etc?

Let me fix that for you:

Oh really?  As one of the ASIC vendors shipping few devices, I think that makes me INABAble to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have I done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

[Inaba]

People are finding out it's not as easy to create a brand new product as they would have you believe, that's what's happening.  Even the people using others IP can't bring products to market (Look at Bicknellski's failed ventures) with all of the parts already laid out for them, much less create anything from scratch.

Surprise!  It actually requires skill, commitment and dedication to create a new product and bring it to market.

1) create product [check]
2) bring to market [....uh....check?]
3) fulfill all pre-orders and sell from in-hand stock [i guess in two weeks...right now you are shipping preorders 2-4months later than initially 'promised'/suggested]
4) take preorders on next-gen product that is rediculously overpriced by today's standards, and promise to deliver it before the 110nm preorders are filled

Can you point to a vendor that's doing number 3 now?  Are you seriously complaining that because demand is exceeding supply, it is somehow the vendors fault?

As for 4, I have no idea what you are talking about. BFL doesn't have any 110nm products and again, are you seriously complaining about the fact that people are paying money for a given product and the vendor charges what people will pay... but it's "overpriced" even though people are paying it?  If it was overpriced, people wouldn't buy it - that is simple economics.  If you think it's over priced, don't buy it.  The majority of the market disagrees with you, so that makes you the one that is incorrect.  

So basically points 3 and 4 are invalid and you have proven my point.

you cant be serious? asicminer, bitfury, and avalon are all selling units that are available immediately.

Huh, Avalon, really?  Last I checked, they had imploded.  Bitfury shows out of stock on all products.  ASICminer was order and wait last time I looked, but perhaps that's changed, I don't keep up with them much.  Please provide links otherwise?

Oh really?  As one of the few shipping ASIC vendors, I think that makes me qualified to speak on the subject, unlike you.  What have you done to bring a new product to the market from scratch?  Oh that's right... nothing at all.

How loose your definitions are.  By shipping, do you mean shipping stuff today for items that were ordered almost a year ago?  Shipping items in variations much different than what was ordered?  Shipping out hardware that mines for 2 days and then dies and have to wait 8 days for someday just to issue an RMA even after requesting in email, forums, shoutbox, etc?

There are no orders being shipped that were ordered a year ago, please stop spreading false information.  Our failure rate on hardware is less than 1%, much better than industry average, so again, your argument is invalid.  

Sorry, but if you consider 400 - 1000+ units shipped per day in this industry to be "few devices" you need to have your head examined.

[donch]

There are no orders being shipped that were ordered a year ago, please stop spreading false information.  Our failure rate on hardware is less than 1%, much better than industry average, so again, your argument is invalid.  

You shipped October and November 2012 orders in September 2013. Well done. One month short of a year. Stop playing with verb tenses to try and win arguments. You are such a giant bullshitter. Please stop spreading false information.

P.S. http://avalon-asics.com/product/avalon-mini-60ghs/ Prices reduced due to difficulty. In stock.

[Bitsaurus]

There are no orders being shipped that were ordered a year ago, please stop spreading false information.  Our failure rate on hardware is less than 1%, much better than industry average, so again, your argument is invalid.  

Sorry, but if you consider 400 - 1000+ units shipped per day in this industry to be "few devices" you need to have your head examined.

For somebody who purports to ignore the prattle on bitcointalk you responded very quickly.  Please read carefully.  I said almost a year, not over 1 year.  If you're going to nitpick (which you do play semantics all the time) get it right.  My order was shipped with over a 1 year delay BTW.  I ordered in June 2012 and it shipped a few days short of 13 months.  Minirig owners did not see their full purchased hashing power for almost 14 months.

I doubt your failure rate is less than 1%.  Most computer hardware has rates exceeding that failure rate and admittedly no ASIC vendor would make such ridiculous claims.  I'm sure those ASICminer USB sticks are close to 2-3% and BFL is probably closer to 5% judging by what is said on the forums.  I can't fault the company or it's employees for having something break since we are human and the devices were assembled by human hands.  I can justly rail all I want for not getting a reply for 8 days for my RMA - the downtime cost me over 10BTC which is roughly $2k right now.  That is inexcusable.

I did choose to purchase from BFL willingly - it was my choice.  I choose to stick with the company and by the time I decided to ask for a refund your company redacted their refund offering.  I do like your product, but I have lost quite a bit of BTC (I paid in BTC) by buying it seeing as how I was suckered in believing the devices would ship sometime in October.....2012.   I believe you are currently the face of the company - if you can sleep with that at night...

[Syke]

Huh, Avalon, really?  Last I checked, they had imploded.

They've been selling by auction at https://tradehill.com/auctions.

 Bitfury shows out of stock on all products.

Available for Oct delivery at https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53.

ASICminer was order and wait last time I looked, but perhaps that's changed, I don't keep up with them much.  Please provide links otherwise?

Readily available at https://www.btcguild.com//index.php?page=store and other resellers.

Sorry, but if you consider 400 - 1000+ units shipped per day in this industry to be "few devices" you need to have your head examined.

First it was 20,000 devices. How do you ship 400-1000 a day for 6 months and only ship 20k units?