Any penalty for selling merit? Still need a statement.

[mdayonliner]

Asking for merit  receiving negative feedback
Giving merits to alt accounts receives negative feedback if discovered

What about on selling merits? It only says: disallowed but no clue about the penalty.

Any suggestions or update?
From common sense I am considering the penalty provably will be is  receiving  negative feedback. But I am not yet someone here to decide/assume, it will be an insult to all these people who are here from years with deep understanding of possible issues.

I have a thread where I am policing merit farmers/abusers and with evidence I am leaving them red trust following the forum rules. I need to be fair on my judgement.

One of them accepted that he/she sold merits. Although I left them a red trust but I think according to the rules I am wrong.
Should I remove the red trust knowing the person sold the merits?

Thanks

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[hilariousetc]

There isn't really any rule against it per se and it's not really enforced at an admin or staff level, so it's more of a community issue right now much like scams and other such shady behaviour. As far as I'm aware the only thing that is currently prohibited is merit sources selling their merit though I'm not sure what the punishment for that would be other than them being removed as merit source.

[jackg]

Merit sources aren't allowed to sell merit as previously stated. If they do, I think they'd probably get removed as a merit source and a 7 day temp ban. If a mod breaks the rules of that I assume they'll be demodded if they do it multiple times as they can't really ban an active mod.

If anyone else sells merit, I assume a member like Vod or Lauda (or anyone else on DT) will happily red them if they find all accounts involved as negging a throwaway doesn't really do much.

[jerry29@]

It is not necessary because no one is bearing our appeal what we have said . The things which are going on, will be continued. I wonder having too much proof of selling merits what is going in moderators mind. Who cares? We will be always there where we are right now. And the merit seller will get more high profiles as much as they can.

[mdayonliner]

If anyone else sells merit, I assume a member like Vod or Lauda (or anyone else on DT) will happily red them if they find all accounts involved as negging a throwaway doesn't really do much.

Assume you are saying giving red trust to the guy SparkyU was not any injustice from my side.

[greeklogos]

I guess selling of merit is happening out of the forum or through PM, so such cases are going to be hard to prove ones. But in the case if such deals will be uncovered I believe those users will get negative trust as well.

[jackg]

If anyone else sells merit, I assume a member like Vod or Lauda (or anyone else on DT) will happily red them if they find all accounts involved as negging a throwaway doesn't really do much.

Assume you are saying giving red trust to the guy SparkyU was not any injustice from my side.

If they sold merit thein their red trust is deservant.

You might want to post a summary of your thread or a link to your thread here if you haven't already done so just to ensure everything is in a centralised list.

Though you have to take trust as something that's a bit useless sometimes unless it is considerably valid. Take a look at my negative ratings to show you an example (my favourite is the final negative rating I got on here - I got a negative for not reading someone's username and analysing it before I made a post rediculous huh?).

[MainIbem]

How much do you sell 1 merit?  How many merits are there for sell?

How many persons will you contact before you get enough merits to rank up?

I think some of these threads are posts out of imagination. The only possible rank up from such practice is junior member to member. You possibly will have to approach not less than 5 senior members to sell their merits to you. It is not as easy as you possibly have imagined. I keep saying that the team that did the job of merit score did a great job.

[SparkyU]

If anyone else sells merit, I assume a member like Vod or Lauda (or anyone else on DT) will happily red them if they find all accounts involved as negging a throwaway doesn't really do much.

Assume you are saying giving red trust to the guy SparkyU was not any injustice from my side.

If they sold merit thein their red trust is deservant.

You might want to post a summary of your thread or a link to your thread here if you haven't already done so just to ensure everything is in a centralised list.

Though you have to take trust as something that's a bit useless sometimes unless it is considerably valid. Take a look at my negative ratings to show you an example (my favourite is the final negative rating I got on here - I got a negative for not reading someone's username and analysing it before I made a post rediculous huh?).

I actually explained myself on his thread of why it WASN'T deserving, but he was unwilling to accept my explanation and simply resorted to dismissing me and name calling. The whole merit system is new, still heavily flawed with some rules not even clearly explained, and obsessing about it like some people are is frankly a bit ridiculous.  I mean look at this mdayonline guy, why are so many of his posts about merits?  This is a crypto forum, people should discussing more important things than going round and round about some minor rules.  If you want to solve the spam/low quality posts problem then getting more mods or having the mods ban more people who are clearly getting away with murder would be WAY more effective.  This is one of the most lax moderation forums I've ever been on, also one of the worst in terms of spam.

[jackg]

If anyone else sells merit, I assume a member like Vod or Lauda (or anyone else on DT) will happily red them if they find all accounts involved as negging a throwaway doesn't really do much.

Assume you are saying giving red trust to the guy SparkyU was not any injustice from my side.

If they sold merit thein their red trust is deservant.

You might want to post a summary of your thread or a link to your thread here if you haven't already done so just to ensure everything is in a centralised list.

Though you have to take trust as something that's a bit useless sometimes unless it is considerably valid. Take a look at my negative ratings to show you an example (my favourite is the final negative rating I got on here - I got a negative for not reading someone's username and analysing it before I made a post rediculous huh?).

I actually explained myself on his thread of why it WASN'T deserving, but he was unwilling to accept my explanation and simply resorted to dismissing me and name calling. The whole merit system is new, still heavily flawed with some rules not even clearly explained, and obsessing about it like some people are is frankly a bit ridiculous.  I mean look at this mdayonline guy, why are so many of his posts about merits?  This is a crypto forum, people should discussing more important things than going round and round about some little rules.  If you want to solve the spam/low quality posts problem then getting more mods or having the mods ban more people who are clearly getting away with murder would be WAY more effective.

Well yes you did explain yourslef and it is against the rules to sell merit as a merit source. I would question why OP ever brought this to this thread as it just serves the hijack it and is a little off topic (hence why I tried to diffuse it - arguably unsuccessful) @OP keep stuff to one thread, don't duplicate.

The entire merit system is flawed, it was a good idea however it was executed in the wrong way I think (though Theymos did try at getting rid of spammers and it did sort of work).

And based on your post on that thread, yes you would lose it (apparenlty) anyway but using it up on a user is buys it makes it much less valuable than awarding it to someone because they made a post that you strongly agree with or believe is of good quality enough to earn those merits.

[SparkyU]

Well yes you did explain yourslef and it is against the rules to sell merit as a merit source. I would question why OP ever brought this to this thread as it just serves the hijack it and is a little off topic (hence why I tried to diffuse it - arguably unsuccessful) @OP keep stuff to one thread, don't duplicate.

The entire merit system is flawed, it was a good idea however it was executed in the wrong way I think (though Theymos did try at getting rid of spammers and it did sort of work).

And based on your post on that thread, yes you would lose it (apparenlty) anyway but using it up on a user is buys it makes it much less valuable than awarding it to someone because they made a post that you strongly agree with or believe is of good quality enough to earn those merits.

Well thanks for the first level headed reply, everyone else seemed out for blood regardless of what I said or how I said it.  "rules rules, nothing else matters muh rules1111!!"  Also I'm not a merit source, I think that means someone who generates it constantly if I'm remembering it right?  I just wanted to offload the merit I initially received when the system was activated because I had no idea when it even expired, that wasn't stated anywhere I saw.  I wasn't a fan of it and wanted to get rid of it, going 1 by 1 would've taken forever as I did receive a fair amount initially.  But yes I understand your point about how it should ideally work in regards to handing it out to deserving posts.  I didn't look over the rules indepth too much at first and just assumed they were given to each us and we could use them however we saw fit.  I honestly didn't think it would cause such a fuss with what I did, lesson learned.  Some of you guys take these internet points very seriously.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Should I remove the red trust knowing the person sold the merits?

No, you should not.  Not even if they send you a message telling you their kids will starve to death because of your feedback (because that's a lie, as is any idiotic plea like that).

I've started tagging obvious merit abusers, because after thinking about this whole issue ever since the inception of the merit system, I've decided that abusing it is exactly what I was trying to fight when it got created--the ability of shitposters to participate in campaigns and thereby spread their Engrish manure all over the forum. 

It's so obvious, it's derp.  When these people get merits they don't deserve, they're going to rank up, earn more money in campaigns, and have incentive to keep doing this shit.  So I'm negging them, and I hope DT members keep doing it as well, AND I hope that the sig campaigns keep not accepting users with DT negatives. 

[SparkyU]

Should I remove the red trust knowing the person sold the merits?

No, you should not.  Not even if they send you a message telling you their kids will starve to death because of your feedback (because that's a lie, as is any idiotic plea like that).

I've started tagging obvious merit abusers, because after thinking about this whole issue ever since the inception of the merit system, I've decided that abusing it is exactly what I was trying to fight when it got created--the ability of shitposters to participate in campaigns and thereby spread their Engrish manure all over the forum. 

It's so obvious, it's derp.  When these people get merits they don't deserve, they're going to rank up, earn more money in campaigns, and have incentive to keep doing this shit.  So I'm negging them, and I hope DT members keep doing it as well, AND I hope that the sig campaigns keep not accepting users with DT negatives. 

This guy is obviously going to listen to you because he seems to have an extreme hard on for following any rule regardless of circumstance.  Everyone is automatically guilty.  Nevermind that it was an honest mistake that I admitted.  Nevermind that the rules had poor implementation and explanation.  Nevermind anything else, RULES must follow rules at all costs!!11! no wiggle room for anything else!

I mean seriously, where is the understanding in some people.  The admins out of the blue created a bunch of new rules out of nowhere and gave everyone some points.  I don't even recall a description of how it all worked being mandatory.  Why isn't there a description somewhere each time you use them or a PM/email that was sent to everyone?  You know like in red letters saying something to the effect of "careful using merit points, misuse will drive people crazy and swarm on you like a hive of bees falling into your lap!"  If that happened I don't even remember it.  So I explained in detail how it went down and basically said whoops my bad guys, won't happen again.  Can you be a bit understanding about the whole thing?  NOPE, fuck you Sparky you're a piece of shit die slow and here is your negative trust.  No messages, no warnings, just bam here you go.  I just can't be ok with something like that.

[sitnikov]

I guess selling of merit is happening out of the forum or through PM, so such cases are going to be hard to prove ones. But in the case if such deals will be uncovered I believe those users will get negative trust as well.

Deals happening outside forum: If these are happening in online marketplaces, it can still be traced. It will require a lot of work on the part of staff though and I do not think they have that much free time. If you notice such a thing on any marketplace like Freelancer, you can bring it to the attention of mods.

Deals through PMS: Why are these hard to catch for the moderators ? Can't they check the pm of other members ? This is done on other forums I am part of .

[hilariousetc]

I guess selling of merit is happening out of the forum or through PM, so such cases are going to be hard to prove ones. But in the case if such deals will be uncovered I believe those users will get negative trust as well.

Deals happening outside forum: If these are happening in online marketplaces, it can still be traced. It will require a lot of work on the part of staff though and I do not think they have that much free time. If you notice such a thing on any marketplace like Freelancer, you can bring it to the attention of mods.

Deals through PMS: Why are these hard to catch for the moderators ? Can't they check the pm of other members ? This is done on other forums I am part of .

This isn't going to happen. Only Admins (and the NSA  ) can read people's private messages and they're not going to invade peoples privacy just to see if people are trading merit. Admins don't get involved in this stuff and is usually left up to the community to police or enforce certain standards.

[jackg]

I guess selling of merit is happening out of the forum or through PM, so such cases are going to be hard to prove ones. But in the case if such deals will be uncovered I believe those users will get negative trust as well.

Deals happening outside forum: If these are happening in online marketplaces, it can still be traced. It will require a lot of work on the part of staff though and I do not think they have that much free time. If you notice such a thing on any marketplace like Freelancer, you can bring it to the attention of mods.

Deals through PMS: Why are these hard to catch for the moderators ? Can't they check the pm of other members ? This is done on other forums I am part of .

This isn't going to happen. Only Admins (and the NSA  ) can read people's private messages and they're not going to invade peoples privacy just to see if people are trading merit. Admins don't get involved in this stuff and is usually left up to the community to police or enforce certain standards.

As hilarious states only admins have access to PMs but they're extremely busy with other stuff to start wanting to police merit.

Also, since we're a forum based on cryptographic currencies, someone might encrypt their messages for the receiver to get with hashing algorithms.

[greeklogos]

I guess selling of merit is happening out of the forum or through PM, so such cases are going to be hard to prove ones. But in the case if such deals will be uncovered I believe those users will get negative trust as well.

Deals happening outside forum: If these are happening in online marketplaces, it can still be traced. It will require a lot of work on the part of staff though and I do not think they have that much free time. If you notice such a thing on any marketplace like Freelancer, you can bring it to the attention of mods.

Deals through PMS: Why are these hard to catch for the moderators ? Can't they check the pm of other members ? This is done on other forums I am part of .

This isn't going to happen. Only Admins (and the NSA  ) can read people's private messages and they're not going to invade peoples privacy just to see if people are trading merit. Admins don't get involved in this stuff and is usually left up to the community to police or enforce certain standards.

You forgot about KGB 
I think even if moderators or managers have opportunity to read other users' PMs they can't to track each case, it is obvious that they have many other forum's work besides that.

[audaciousbeing]

The origin of the problem of any society is people failing to live up to ideals and expectation of the community. I can't imagine that some people are bent on frustrating this merit system to make it ineffective despite the amount of thought that have been put into bringing it into reality. I agree that it's not perfect but if everyone can just play their part and focus on doing the right thing rather than cutting corners, it would have been the best upgrade the forum would witness because whether we acknowledge it or not, its surely working.

For those selling merit as ordinary members, its a matter of time for it to get exhausted and nothing can be done about that. But for the sources of merit members, this should be frown at seriously by anyone who wants the best for the forum because to be regarded as a source of merit means some level of trust has been deposited into you which by selling merits, you have betrayed that trust and such individual should not be welcomed in the community. My opinion...

[Lehbane]

As far as I can read, they have red mark on their accounts, especially when they looked that their wallets had been linked together, and having red mark from D2 is hard to join in any bounty.

[tranthidung]

I agree users who are selling sMerits, exchanging their sMerits should be wipen out of the forum through permanent bans.

However, there is no official rules about banning due to selling sMerits (should call exactly as sMerits, not merits). Therefore, I think that Theymos should add new point of rules (#34) to avoid any serious arguments about permanenent bans due to merit exchanging.
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