Why bitcoin isn't currency.

[mrhelpful]

Are you serious? lolol.

[benjamindees]

No, a commodity is a unit.  Currency is current value.

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is money. It is not physical but it is still tangible.

The three functions of money is

Facilitate indirect exchange: (Money that has this function is sometimes called currency). Bitcoin has this function, but in no geographic area is bitcoin the main currency for the time being. It is used in non-geographic areas like internet gambling and internet trade.

Saving: Here bitcoin is perfect.

Unit of account: Not usable for now. So what? It will be used for this also later.

[shawshankinmate37927]

First, I dont want this to be true but it is.

Currency is a unit.

It is a unit in the system of measurement of value. Just like an inch is a unit in the system of measurement for length.

Units (and there have been thousands of different ones) all have 2 things in common.

1- They are not real. They are all made up, everyone of them is just an opinion. Inch, pound, meter, cat 5, g force,currency --- not real.
the are all just an opinion that we chose to share. We all share the opinion that an inch is so long, if we all shared the opinion that an inch was a foot then it would be.

2- All units are equal to a constant.

Bitcoin is not a currency because it is not a unit. It has to be definable it has to be equal to something.  An inch is not real but it is definable.

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of units of currency as being similar to points in a football game.  The points allow relative value to be assigned to touchdowns, field goals, safeties, etc.  The points don't have to be definable or equal to anything.  One of the purposes of currency (or money) is to be a measure of value and allow the market to assign relative value to goods, services, labor, etc. as well as to other currencies.

[johnyj]

I think the volatility will always be part of bitcoin's nature, even when all the coins are mined and one coin worth millions of dollars

But that volatility is a healthy indication of the periodical variations in supply of goods/services and demand for saving. When economy is good, people might spend more and lower the bitcoin's exchange value, and when economy is bad, people might save more and raise bitcoin's exchange value

On the other hand, fiat money always try to maintain a fixed exchange value, which is impossible to achieve without a constant inflation and manually intervention of the money supply, that in turn re-allocate wealth to money creators and the people around them

So the cost of having a constant measurement of value is slavery, you chose

[leannemckim46]

Because no charge back and no bank want to accept it

[sublime5447]

Besides that BTC is clearly defined as 100000000 satoshis

No, you can't define units like this. You need to define satoshi first. A meter is not defined as 1000 millimeters. Since 1983, a meter has been defined

as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second."

Neither bitcoin nor USD are units. And this is bad.

You dont know how happy it makes me to see people getting it. 

I am not saying that it cant be currency but it will have to be defined. Currency is a unit and units are objectively definable. We measure things that dont exist like value and data in terms of things that do! 

A unit of data is equal to a byte a byte is equal to a charged particle.    1 satoshi = 1 byte = 1 charged partical. Now it can work. You cant have measurement without a UNIT.

The world has been living with a system of measurement that doesnt have a unit. This has happened before. An inch used to be measured by human thumbs. That is the state of currency today a unit of measurement that changes properties. The governments of the world have passed out a ruler for measuring value that doesn't have any lines on it.     

[sublime5447]

I think the volatility will always be part of bitcoin's nature, even when all the coins are mined and one coin worth millions of dollars

But that volatility is a healthy indication of the periodical variations in supply of goods/services and demand for saving. When economy is good, people might spend more and lower the bitcoin's exchange value, and when economy is bad, people might save more and raise bitcoin's exchange value

On the other hand, fiat money always try to maintain a fixed exchange value, which is impossible to achieve without a constant inflation and manually intervention of the money supply, that in turn re-allocate wealth to money creators and the people around them

So the cost of having a constant measurement of value is slavery, you chose

That is why digital currency is so important. The problem isnt that they create currency out of thin air. Units are created out of thin air, they are just representations. We dont limit the number of inchs or pounds and we shouldn't limit the amount of currency. What should be done is to keep the unit true and to do that as you point out, it is not the value that changes but the quantity.  

Ben bernakie actually had a good idea.. (this shit is was hard for me to swallow) when he suggested tossing currency from helicopters. The issue with an elastic currency supply is the distribution it is that banks and wall street get the money first. Digital currency can change that. Instead of the value changing it is the quantity that need to change. It could be set up that when demand for bitcoin goes up and more people want to transact in it that the block reward changes and coins are randomly distributed not to miners but to active wallets?

The real reason that this problem wont be fixed is that it will remove the financial gain. This community is built on speculation. If bitcoin were to be defined. No one would be getting rich off of hording it.    

[sublime5447]

First, I dont want this to be true but it is.

Currency is a unit.

It is a unit in the system of measurement of value. Just like an inch is a unit in the system of measurement for length.

Units (and there have been thousands of different ones) all have 2 things in common.

1- They are not real. They are all made up, everyone of them is just an opinion. Inch, pound, meter, cat 5, g force,currency --- not real.
the are all just an opinion that we chose to share. We all share the opinion that an inch is so long, if we all shared the opinion that an inch was a foot then it would be.

2- All units are equal to a constant.

The US Dollar is not a currency because it is not a unit. It has to be definable it has to be equal to something.  An inch is not real but it is definable. 

Exactly!

You get it!

[sublime5447]

Bitcoin is money. It is not physical but it is still tangible.

The three functions of money is

Facilitate indirect exchange: (Money that has this function is sometimes called currency). Bitcoin has this function, but in no geographic area is bitcoin the main currency for the time being. It is used in non-geographic areas like internet gambling and internet trade.

Saving: Here bitcoin is perfect.

Unit of account: Not usable for now. So what? It will be used for this also later.

Do you not get that you just admitted it is not money. Bitcoin doesn't meet that definition. It is not a unit.  You are saying that it will become a unit, but it is not one now.

Until it is a unit it is not currency.

This is a problem of measurement guys. It requires a unit.   

[sublime5447]

Why not? Go ahead, take a shovel, throw it on the fan.

     back to the drawing board.

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is money. It is not physical but it is still tangible.

The three functions of money is

Facilitate indirect exchange: (Money that has this function is sometimes called currency). Bitcoin has this function, but in no geographic area is bitcoin the main currency for the time being. It is used in non-geographic areas like internet gambling and internet trade.

Saving: Here bitcoin is perfect.

Unit of account: Not usable for now. So what? It will be used for this also later.

Do you not get that you just admitted it is not money. Bitcoin doesn't meet that definition. It is not a unit.  You are saying that it will become a unit, but it is not one now.

Until it is a unit it is not currency.

This is a problem of measurement guys. It requires a unit.   

Whatever. I never liked the "currency" word anyway.

[sublime5447]

Bitcoin is money. It is not physical but it is still tangible.

The three functions of money is

Facilitate indirect exchange: (Money that has this function is sometimes called currency). Bitcoin has this function, but in no geographic area is bitcoin the main currency for the time being. It is used in non-geographic areas like internet gambling and internet trade.

Saving: Here bitcoin is perfect.

Unit of account: Not usable for now. So what? It will be used for this also later.

Do you not get that you just admitted it is not money. Bitcoin doesn't meet that definition. It is not a unit.  You are saying that it will become a unit, but it is not one now.

Until it is a unit it is not currency.

This is a problem of measurement guys. It requires a unit.   

Whatever. I never liked the "currency" word anyway.

It is fine as long as people see it for what it is. You can still transact value with them and they do still have value (as long as we agree they have value). They transact value in the way that trading cards do, not the way currency does.

The point for me is that they cant replace the dollar and it cant take the control of the money supply away from the banks and government special interest groups.

It isnt a threat to the existing power structure.

My motivation is to make the world a more fair place and to help close the gap in income inequality. My goal is for 1 income to be sufficient to raise a family on, like it used to be. We are capable of producing so much more wealth with so much less labor. The work week should me getting shorter one income should be more than enough if it was enough in the past. 1 percent of the population owns 46 percent of the wealth of the world something is not right about that and this is the mechanism that creates that scenario.   


I dont think that most of the people involved in this tech realize the radical transformation it is capable of bringing about. I want to see that transformation in my life time.

So stop dicking around with digital collectibles and someone make digital currency!   

My suggestion for units--
1 satoshi  = 1 joule of work
1 satoshi = 1 kilowatt
1  satoshi = 1 byte.   

[sublime5447]

cur·ren·cy

noun \ˈkər-ən(t)-sē, ˈkə-rən(t)-\

: the money that a country uses : a specific kind of money

: something that is used as money

: the quality or state of being used or accepted by many people

plural cur·ren·cies

Full Definition of CURRENCY

1
  a :  circulation as a medium of exchange
  b :  general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency>
  c :  the quality or state of being current :  currentness
2
  a :  something (as coins, treasury notes, and banknotes) that is in circulation as a medium of exchange
  b :  paper money in circulation
  c :  a common article for bartering
  d :  a medium of verbal or intellectual expression

So currency is money.

Very good now we have to define money.   

Money = The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value

So money is a unit. Now we need to define unit.

u·nit
ˈyo͞onit/Submit
noun
1.
an individual thing or person regarded as single and complete but which can also form an individual component of a larger or more complex whole.
"the family unit"
synonyms:   component, element, building block, constituent; More
a device that has a specified function, esp. one forming part of a complex mechanism.
"the gearbox and transmission unit"
a piece of furniture or equipment for fitting with others like it or made of complementary parts.
"a sink unit"
a self-contained section of accommodations in a larger building or group of buildings.
"one- and two-bedroom units"
a part of an institution such as a hospital having a special function.
"the intensive care unit"
a subdivision of a larger military grouping.
"he returned to Germany with his unit"
synonyms:   detachment, contingent, division, company, squadron, corps, regiment, brigade, platoon, battalion; More
an amount of educational instruction, typically determined by the number of hours spent in class.
"students take three compulsory core units"
an item manufactured.
"unit cost"
a police car.
"he eased into his unit and flicked the siren on"
2.
a quantity chosen as a standard in terms of which other quantities may be expressed.
"a unit of measurement"
synonyms:   quantity, measure, denomination More
3.
the number one.
the digit before the decimal point in decimal notation, representing an integer less than ten.
Origin

More
late 16th cent. (as a mathematical term): from Latin unus, probably suggested by digit.
Translate unit to
Use over time for: unit

[Jumpy]

How about moving the argument to the realm of function? Currency is to function as a medium of exchange, which I would say that Bitcoin qualifies as. However, it doesn't behave the same way as fiat currency because it is almost always tied to its exchange rate, vis a vis the US Dollar.

I know this won't fit the narrow semantics that some of you are using, but I enjoy what Elon Musk said about bitcoin, calling it an "API for micropayments."

See more: http://bitcoinbabble.com/?p=103

[ekiro]

lol. that's how i felt.

bitcoin is in circulation. ergo it's a currency.

[thefunkybits]

Lol what a fucking pointless argument

[Tirapon]

First, I dont want this to be true but it is.

Currency is a unit.

It is a unit in the system of measurement of value. Just like an inch is a unit in the system of measurement for length.

Units (and there have been thousands of different ones) all have 2 things in common.

1- They are not real. They are all made up, everyone of them is just an opinion. Inch, pound, meter, cat 5, g force,currency --- not real.
the are all just an opinion that we chose to share. We all share the opinion that an inch is so long, if we all shared the opinion that an inch was a foot then it would be.

2- All units are equal to a constant.

Bitcoin is not a currency because it is not a unit. It has to be definable it has to be equal to something.  An inch is not real but it is definable. 

Hello!

I think you might find it interesting to look into the history of measurements. We have had all kinds of units over the millennia, and our system of units is constantly evolving. Even the SI units which are now used as the common standard in scientific measurements are subject to change.

So you may find that some of the things we currently rely on as 'units' don't actually fit your definition of 'unit'.

Value is probably one of the more complicated things to assign a fixed unit to, because it is so subjective. But I think you're wrong about Bitcoin not being a unit. We have a fixed supply of 21 million Bitcoins. 1 Bitcoin remains constant (i.e. 1 BTC will always = 1 BTC) - its up to us to decide how much we value it.

[GimpyPrime]

Even if true it wouldn't be any different from fluctuating fiat currencies. They will all go digital as seen in Canada with MintChip. Even a currency backed by gold that has a supposed "intrinsic value" still doesn't have a fixed value. If the number of gold discoveries go down or new uses for gold are found the value of the currency will change. Furthermore currency is intended as a medium of exchange, and Bitcoin fulfills this purpose.




 

[sublime5447]

Even if true it wouldn't be any different from fluctuating fiat currencies. They will all go digital as seen in Canada with MintChip. Even a currency backed by gold that has a supposed "intrinsic value" still doesn't have a fixed value. If the number of gold discoveries go down or new uses for gold are found the value of the currency will change. Furthermore currency is intended as a medium of exchange, and Bitcoin fulfills this purpose.

It is fixed a unit.  Gold is always gold. It is human perspective that changes.

But yes you are right, the value changes with human perspective. Price is the representation of the change in perspective. It is like this.

Imagine that we measure the weight of a bowling ball here or earth and it weighs 10 pounds. Then we measure the same bowling ball on the surface of the moon and it now weighs 2 pounds. The value changes but the unit stays the same. A pound is a pound. It is human perspective that changes.

The representation of the change in human perspective is price.

The unit is the constant. The value is what changes with perspective (i.e  a unit of gold might be worth a 100 gallons of water next to a lake, but only worth 1 gallon of water in the desert)... Do you see how the number changes with human perspective but the unit stays the same?



I never said it wasnt a medium of exchange.. it is. So is a baseball card.