A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue (In the USA)

[Wilikon]

And I though that crazy idea was for our Euro friends only 


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-roads-black-boxes-20131027,0,6090226.story#axzz2iwNczDu0

The devices would track every mile you drive —possibly including your location — and the government would use the data to draw up a tax bill.

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

The usually dull arena of highway planning has suddenly spawned intense debate and colorful alliances. Libertarians have joined environmental groups in lobbying to allow government to use the little boxes to keep track of the miles you drive, and possibly where you drive them — then use the information to draw up a tax bill.

The tea party is aghast. The American Civil Liberties Union is deeply concerned, too, raising a variety of privacy issues.

And while Congress can't agree on whether to proceed, several states are not waiting. They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over. Thousands of motorists have already taken the black boxes, some of which have GPS monitoring, for a test drive.

"This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do," said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. "There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it."

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No wonder Elon Musk's concept of the Hyperloop, although open source and cheaper than anything else being built right now, is not going to fly. Government needs its taxes!

http://youtu.be/I8sOxSa3j3g

[pedrog]

That's the "user pays" approach, widely used in bridges and highways, but how they want to enforce in this particular case it raises many privacy concerns, and everyone should be against this, and I hope other countries don't follow.

There are many other ways for taxing drivers, I pay a tax every year for owning a car and there are taxes on gasoline, no need for a black box in my car...

[Wilikon]

That's the "user pays" approach, widely used in bridges and highways, but how they want to enforce in this particular case it raises many privacy concerns, and everyone should be against this, and I hope other countries don't follow.

There are many other ways for taxing drivers, I pay a tax every year for owning a car and there are taxes on gasoline, no need for a black box in my car...

Is this going include taxi cab and car rental businesses? How about people in rural communities who need their car all the time? So if you are loaded you can take your private plane and that is fine. I wish I had a private plane like Al Gore. But if you are barely doing OK and you only have your Ford 150 for everything from business for the farm to carry the groom to the wedding, somehow you need to pay more the more you use it?

[kokojie]

Um that's dumb, why not just tax gasoline like almost every other country? surely the more gasoline you purchase,
the more miles you have driven.

[mb300sd]

One more reason I'm sticking with my 1980s classic. I wrote every line of code, and designed every board with a cpu in it, and it's completely drivable without them, albeit with reduced performance.

[pedrog]

Um that's dumb, why not just tax gasoline like almost every other country? surely the more gasoline you purchase,
the more miles you have driven.

Yap, there may be a hidden agenda here...

[Wilikon]

Um that's dumb, why not just tax gasoline like almost every other country? surely the more gasoline you purchase,
the more miles you have driven.

Yap, there may be a hidden agenda here...

... And this hidden agenda is in plain sight:

http://www.nacdl.org/reports/thirdpartyrecords/

In February, 2012 NACDL’s Board of Directors adopted a white paper report on Law Enforcement Access to Third Party Records. Federal laws protecting individual privacy rights in electronic communications have not been meaningfully updated in over 25 years, even though many of today’s technologies were not even conceived of when Congress considered the legislation and when the Supreme Court created the “Third Party Doctrine.” Because of society’s reliance on third party carriers, such as Internet service providers, cellular phone service providers, and “cloud” computing services, to communicate, work and socialize, privacy laws need to be updated to keep pace with today’s evolving technologies. This white paper discusses the current status of the law, including federal laws such as the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, and Supreme Court precedent, including United States v. Jones, and concludes with recommendations for reform, such as a recommendation that law enforcement officers should be required to obtain a warrant based on probable cause before they can access the content of electronic communications or geolocation information.

[Spendulus]

Um that's dumb, why not just tax gasoline like almost every other country? surely the more gasoline you purchase,
the more miles you have driven.

There has been a federal gasoline tax for decades, seems like it is $ 0.21 per gallon.  So there is enough money generated by that to maintain the roads and bridges - but remember, the revenue all goes into the general fund, then Congress spends it.

One argument is that smaller and fuel efficient cars use less gas and thus revenue is down, but this isn't true. 

More likely it's that they want data on everywhere everyone goes.  That'd be a goldmine by some peoples' twisted values.

[Elwar]

Heh...such an intrusion into our privacy could one day become the first step toward privatization of the roads.

[Spendulus]

Heh...such an intrusion into our privacy could one day become the first step toward privatization of the roads.

Here's a thought.  Since bitcoin enables semi-anonymous transactions, micropayments for road usage are in fact possible without tracing the car or driver and without any government database.

All drivers need bitcoin.

A driver would set out on a section of road, placing a square bar code on his dash.  The system camera reads it and has authority to charge small amounts.  Then as he passes checkpoints the system docks the public key by incremental amounts, say 0.50 USD in bitcoin.  At the end of his drive, he's been billed say 3.50 in a half dozen transactions.

The way to sell this to the government agency would be to emphasize that their profit would be higher and their costs lower.

For discussion purposes let's say no license plate scanning is done except if the square bar code is not there or is not readable or does not have money.  In these cases the plate is scanned so a bill can be sent in the mail.

[randomcloud]

Isn't this what conspiracy theorists were saying was gonna happen ten years ago?

Either way I'm totally against anything that involves the government tracking stuff a person does. This is really, really draconian.

[Magazine]

I had one of these when I first started driving l0l.

My insurance was cheaper, I only did it to get a no claims for a year then get normal insurance.

I always got warnings for doing more miles than I said I was going to do lol.

[dank]

That's when it's time to get a bike.

[Wilikon]

That's when it's time to get a bike.

You mean just like one of those authorized citi bikes?
Don't forget to use your Citibank card and save!

http://etravelproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/photo-5.jpg

[Mike Christ]

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Taxman!

No but really, next they'll try to put that box in my shoes and charge me for the privilege.

[Wilikon]

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Taxman!

No but really, next they'll try to put that box in my shoes and charge me for the privilege.

"Sidewalks don't fix themselves! Shoe makers need a bail out!"

[dank]

That's when it's time to get a bike.

You mean just like one of those authorized citi bikes?
Don't forget to use your Citibank card and save!

http://etravelproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/photo-5.jpg

Na, something like this:>

http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/IMG_0070.jpg

[Schleicher]

More like this if you want to transport something:

[trilightzone.org]

Heh...such an intrusion into our privacy could one day become the first step toward privatization of the roads.

That's already happening up to some height by having corporations "invest" in infrastructure like tunnels, highways in exchange they are allowed to ask for a fee before one can make use of them.

The funny thing which seem to always sell people on privacy invading devices / services etc;

- brings safety
- brings comfort
- brings profit

Until policies, management, governments (etc) change and use it for something else if it wasn't done already in the first place.

[rampalija]

not such a  bad idea