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Author Topic: SAFE idea to sell BTC via PayPal w. GUARANTEE of making txn NON reversible!!  (Read 518 times)
lenkug
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October 29, 2013, 07:05:04 AM
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Looking for opinions on this: Do you think it's safe for a seller to sell BTCs for PayPal if PayPal buyer provides signed document which shows his wallet address to confirm wether or not the transfer was made in case of dispute. That way you have digital proof you funded their wallet.

What do you guys think?
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BitcoinWalker
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October 29, 2013, 07:13:04 AM
 #2

A signed document is one of the things you can use to defend yourself in the event of a chargeback. It's not a chargeback proof. Paypal is notorious for freezing people's accounts if they detect a very slim sign that people are doing a risky business with their accounts. Even if you manage to keep the chargeback rate low, you may still face possible problems with Paypal.

lenkug
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October 29, 2013, 07:18:33 AM
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...if they detect a very slim sign that people are doing a risky business with their accounts. Even if you manage to keep the chargeback rate low, you may still face possible problems with Paypal.

Do you think the buyer would put my account at risk if I do a smooth transaction and have an insurance policy that will make me win the dispute if he were to file.
I just don't see any benefit for the buyer to start a dispute knowing they will lose.
BitcoinWalker
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October 29, 2013, 07:34:02 AM
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There are two types of chargeback.

1) Fraudulent chargeback: People use THEIR accounts to initiate a transaction. They then want to walk away with your money by filing a fraudulent dispute after the transaction is completed.
2) Genuine chargeback: Their accounts were hacked and the charge on their accounts happened without their permission/authorization.

As a merchant it's YOUR responsibility to differentiate who is who and what is what. You are most likely to lose money for type 2 chargeback. But again, it may be mainly about you and Paypal. If Paypal agrees with what you are doing then you could succeed. If they say no, then there is not much you can do to sound convincing to their ears.

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October 29, 2013, 07:54:53 AM
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Safest way to sell BTC via PayPal is to not sell them via PayPal.

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keatonatron
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October 29, 2013, 08:02:39 AM
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I haven't researched it myself, but people have said selling Bitcoin is against Paypal's terms of service.

It would be like showing a police officer a receipt for the large bag of illegal narcotics you are holding to prove you didn't steal them.

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rauderce
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October 29, 2013, 08:17:00 AM
 #7

Any transaction that has to do with BTC on paypal is 100% unsafe.
Even if you got the seller to 'send' you a donation it could easily be charged-back.


Paypal recognizes that the deal is not completed if there is an issue with the delivery process (which BTC sellers have a huge problem verifying in a way that the paypal people can understand), they do not recognize issues with the actual product, in our case the BTC.
turbobitcoin
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October 29, 2013, 09:04:50 AM
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A signed document is one of the things you can use to defend yourself in the event of a chargeback. It's not a chargeback proof. Paypal is notorious for freezing people's accounts if they detect a very slim sign that people are doing a risky business with their accounts. Even if you manage to keep the chargeback rate low, you may still face possible problems with Paypal.

I think he/she is right concerning the issue. However, I must repeat paypal is very risky. Having too much chargebacks may lead to paypal account suspension.

I would not do it.

I recommend prepaid western union or money gram for a flat rate found at many general good stores. I believe those would be the best alternatives.
fxkevin
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October 29, 2013, 09:10:03 AM
 #9

It is against paypal's TOS to do any type of money transmission or currency exchange service.

They can easily tie BTC into any of several clauses they have within their TOS.

There is no recourse here, as even if there isn't a chargeback initiated paypal can and will likely reverse the transaction at some point and or freeze both accounts indefinitely.

Cheers...
greyhawk
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October 29, 2013, 09:27:37 AM
 #10

The more problematic rub is this: Paypals protection policies only apply to real world, tangible goods. They do not apply to virtual goods.

So if Thiefy McScammerton decides to charge back after he got your BTC or if GabeN decides to steal all your Steam games, you're shit out of luck.
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October 29, 2013, 09:31:56 AM
 #11

I only do Paypal trading as a seller with people I trust. There will never be a safe way of trading Bitcoin with Paypal as they are against Bitcoin.

Here's my bag so you don't ask : Bitcoin, tenX, iexec, byteball and pepecash
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