[PPC] The Future of Peercoin - Sunny King

[mhps]

I think in reality if PPC is to become a real currency people use to pay daily expenses, then [EDIT] in a percentage sense [/EDIT] not only the rich will get richer and poorer get poorer, but also that determined people who own most PPC will own most of the PPC in the world. I explained it here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg4987#msg4987 and here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg5106#msg5106.  I update it here again:

Given that
1) POS is generated only by stakes -- the ppercoins in a wallet that haven't moved in 30 days. If we consider compound interest, the POS income rate is slightly higher than 1% per year.
2) PPC are mostly minted by POW today but the goal is that eventually most of peercoins in the world are generated by POS.
3) There is no cap of the total amount of PPC, therefore, there is no limit in how many new POS peercoins will be created.
4) If PPC is to become a real currency which people use their PPC to pay daily expenses, the poorer people tend to have most of their PPCs in curculation, and the richer people can afford to side aside more PPCs as POS generating stakes. Just look around, the poorer poeple have less in their saving account.

We get:
1) Most of the peercoins in the world will go to the POS stake owners.
2) Those who are determined not to spend their PPC will not only receive most of new peercoin in the furture, they will eventually own most of PPC in the future (certainly more than 51%).
3) Those who spend the coins will own less and less percentage of the PPC money in the world. They may or may not be poor in term of purchase power, depending on how well the economy does. But in term how much PPC they own, those who have to spend will loose out slowly but surely. In this sense one can say the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer.

I agree that the POS miners should be compensated for keeping the network secure. But should they autmatically own the world eventually,  at not cost and no risk? This is a social question.

Then many have the question who are these poeple who could own the PPC economy? Will they be a few people that could be a weak link in the security of network? The answer appears to be no after some research. Since mint rate of POW is still about 40 times higher than POS now ( http://cryptometer.org/ppcoin_104_week_charts.html ), we are still quite some time away from the point when the POS money supply overwhelms POW money supply. Currenly the total POW minted coins is 2500 times more than that from POS. So there appears enough opportunity to allow spreaded ownership of PPC. Concentration of PPC ownership is probably no worse than POW coins. What I originally said in the last paragraph here was wrong.

I proposed a solution to this eventual problem here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg5106#msg5106 , basically by eliminating the 30-day waiting period for discussion.

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[jackyrozario]

PUMAgXmBCYX553JU1JRSYco5vSy4krxEjs


                  I Agree.

[claycoins]

good for early miners - week 33 - 17.8mil ppc.  week 59 - 20.4 mil ppc.

[TrippyPippy]

Agreed
PHrGAwGF2BYchTnNLTG3agBeMaxUj6Qh2K

[000518]

Agreed
PULeTevbE9EdtBm4PG5eu5ed4WEuMEfUeD

[maka]

Doesn't the same logic also apply to banking?  Rich people can save more money in banks so they got steady increase on their assets while poor people use up most of their money with little savings to generate new money.  Yet the bank system has been running for centuries.

I think in reality if PPC is to become a real currency people use to pay daily expenses, then [EDIT] in a percentage sense [/EDIT] not only the rich will get richer and poorer get poorer, but also that determined people who own most PPC will own most of the PPC in the world. I explained it here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg4987#msg4987 and here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg5106#msg5106.  I update it here again:

Given that
1) POS is generated only by stakes -- the ppercoins in a wallet that haven't moved in 30 days. If we consider compound interest, the POS income rate is slightly higher than 1% per year.
2) PPC are mostly minted by POW today but the goal is that eventually most of peercoins in the world are generated by POS.
3) There is no cap of the total amount of PPC, therefore, there is no limit in how many new POS peercoins will be created.
4) If PPC is to become a real currency which people use their PPC to pay daily expenses, the poorer people tend to have most of their PPCs in curculation, and the richer people can afford to side aside more PPCs as POS generating stakes. Just look around, the poorer poeple have less in their saving account.

We get:
1) Most of the peercoins in the world will go to the POS stake owners.
2) Those who are determined not to spend their PPC will not only receive most of new peercoin in the furture, they will eventually own most of PPC in the future (certainly more than 51%).
3) Those who spend the coins will own less and less percentage of the PPC money in the world. They may or may not be poor in term of purchase power, depending on how well the economy does. But in term how much PPC they own, those who have to spend will loose out slowly but surely. In this sense one can say the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer.

I agree that the POS miners should be compensated for keeping the network secure. But should they autmatically own the world eventually,  at not cost and no risk? This is a social question.

Then many have the question who are these poeple who could own the PPC economy? Will they be a few people that could be a weak link in the security of network? The answer appears to be no after some research. Since mint rate of POW is still about 40 times higher than POS now ( http://cryptometer.org/ppcoin_104_week_charts.html ), we are still quite some time away from the point when the POS money supply overwhelms POW money supply. Currenly the total POW minted coins is 2500 times more than that from POS. So there appears enough opportunity to allow spreaded ownership of PPC. Concentration of PPC ownership is probably no worse than POW coins. What I originally said in the last paragraph here was wrong.

I proposed a solution to this eventual problem here http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=152.msg5106#msg5106 , basically by eliminating the 30-day waiting period for discussion.

[mhps]

Doesn't the same logic also apply to banking?  Rich people can save more money in banks so they got steady increase on their assets while poor people use up most of their money with little savings to generate new money.  Yet the bank system has been running for centuries.

I am not saying it won't run, or necessaily wrong. I am saying POS, as it is implemented now, does not distribute POS reward evenly.

[Eli0t]

the rich miners with more equipment would get more PoS if they held but they tend to sell asap. most of the time PoS isnt worth anything to them but people who support the coin or cant mine much would tend to hold longer and get a nice PoS bonus for their dedication

PPi6JbX56uaPjUFgtmo4ZgGSkTjhZ7fUdM

[og kush420]

i am convinced peercoin should and will replace litecoin as the second most valuable crypto coin pretty soon. it is the only altcoin to offer anything signifigantly new or original... even primecoin isn't extremely original, and it is controlled by botnets so it isn't likely to face anything but a decrease in value

peercoin, or perhaps another proof of stake coin, (or even some other original and different coin) will replace litecoin in less than a year, maybe even early 2014. thats my hope, anyway, since i would hate to see bitcoin clones worth more than improved, original currencies.

[claycoins]

i am convinced peercoin should and will replace litecoin as the second most valuable crypto coin pretty soon. it is the only altcoin to offer anything signifigantly new or original... even primecoin isn't extremely original, and it is controlled by botnets so it isn't likely to face anything but a decrease in value

peercoin, or perhaps another proof of stake coin, (or even some other original and different coin) will replace litecoin in less than a year, maybe even early 2014. thats my hope, anyway, since i would hate to see bitcoin clones worth more than improved, original currencies.

it depends if you believe that POS is an improvement, sure it adds something different, but is it better?

[wonglinux]

Agree and thanks for the free coins

PRUeaVvLJVKkKSie8ZjPvkbdTyaXq4Vsdb

[teddyb797]

i am convinced peercoin should and will replace litecoin as the second most valuable crypto coin pretty soon. it is the only altcoin to offer anything signifigantly new or original... even primecoin isn't extremely original, and it is controlled by botnets so it isn't likely to face anything but a decrease in value

peercoin, or perhaps another proof of stake coin, (or even some other original and different coin) will replace litecoin in less than a year, maybe even early 2014. thats my hope, anyway, since i would hate to see bitcoin clones worth more than improved, original currencies.

it depends if you believe that POS is an improvement, sure it adds something different, but is it better?

It Is

pos can be use as security feature for starter.
with enough demand (we need very huge demand for this to happen) of ppc, it can go pure pos. fraction of the cost of bitcoin to maintain the network, and keep it alive.

i also believe that ppc will soon take the second spot.

[og kush420]

i am convinced peercoin should and will replace litecoin as the second most valuable crypto coin pretty soon. it is the only altcoin to offer anything signifigantly new or original... even primecoin isn't extremely original, and it is controlled by botnets so it isn't likely to face anything but a decrease in value

peercoin, or perhaps another proof of stake coin, (or even some other original and different coin) will replace litecoin in less than a year, maybe even early 2014. thats my hope, anyway, since i would hate to see bitcoin clones worth more than improved, original currencies.

it depends if you believe that POS is an improvement, sure it adds something different, but is it better?

even if its not... at least it is original and different, i would prefer a coin that worked very badly that had a new original idea, over a generic clone that has no unique properties

also... its hard to define improvement... its a relative term.. perhaps it was not a good choice of words

but in one way, at least, it is definitely better: the environment. not wasting as much electricity as POS. there may be other improvements, but like i said, there are too many generic c+p alt coins, we need something new and original and peercoin is the lead contender IMO. if something better comes out, i will support it more. but for now, i see no alt-coins as original in design.

[umairsaleem]

PHmT171bXpHsrUcEUKoxmp65S6giUsZxXy

agree and thanks

[PeercoinEnthusiast]

Discussion Question 2:

"About how many more weeks until PPC v0.4 comes out? What will be the new features? (Alertness)"


Sunny's Answer:

"Merge with bitcoin v0.8 is more work then I thought. Meanwhile I am evaluating whether to provide the cold-locked transaction feature in v0.4, as it has become a higher priority item. But v0.4 would get most bitcoin v0.8 features for sure. I think it's at least still several weeks away. "

What features would you like to see in an upcoming release of Peercoin?

First 5 people to most a meaningful response gets 1 PPC.

SENT

1. Snail21
2. Jimmy
3. mhps
4. galbros
5. 5Dzz

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Discussion Question 1:

SENT

1. Viscera
2. belltown
3. wachtwoord
4. hellscabane
5. pmconrad
6. Digicoiner
7. cc5alive
8. KrLos
9. flound1129
10. artiface
11. snail21
12. Lederstrumf
13. Eliot
14. mhps
15. *

[Snail21]

As zerocoin is still in alpha maybe some I2P or tor functions would be useful.

PT6fFzE265RbpszmxDVekqVgDd82AfUVCr

Edit:

PPC is actually a pretty good coin, so I can't see too much room for improvements at its current use. Maybe some preparation for the future could be nice, e.g. implementing colored coins and mastercoin like features for creating a lower, medium and higher value - like PPC-gold, PPC-silver and PPC-copper - coin family on the same blockchain... plus a distributed exchange for exchanging all of these coins.

Edit 2: Oh yes... and services, more services and further services .

[more]

PPiWH7eNszwPT3QwhchQ4hwPUSSqT9kzk6

Thanks

[PeercoinEnthusiast]

PPiWH7eNszwPT3QwhchQ4hwPUSSqT9kzk6

Thanks

Please read first post.

[Jimmy2011]

Stratum support is a must in V0.4. As more and more people come into ppc, and more and more retired ASIC equipment come into here and have a try this "new" "innovative" coin, stratum support is in the top priority so the miners can mine it and more pools can be built. More pools is beneficial for the promoting peercoin.

In addition, a detailed peercoin specification is necessary. So many people can't fully understand its virtue, so it should be explained carefully and the wiki should be done.

[mhps]

I would like to have coin control -- being able to control which coins to send, and to get coinage information.
I hope "merge with btc v0.8" means that v0.4 have all the features that the latest btc wallet v0.8 has.