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Author Topic: [NEW FEATURE] Live Chat for users  (Read 284 times)
vlad230
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March 30, 2018, 01:05:05 PM
Last edit: April 02, 2018, 01:54:37 PM by vlad230
 #1

I would like to propose the addition of a new feature for users: Live Chat Smiley

With the PM system it's a bit hard to have a conversation since it's not keeping the same conversation in a thread (or some other way of organizing that makes sense).
It would be really nice to have a place where everyone can chat live and not be required to always switch to skype or other apps.

I had this simple machines forum (same as BCT) installed on my web server about 10 years ago and had added in the option for live chat that even included a bot Smiley
I don't think the same software would work for everybody today because it was flash based (at that time flash was really cool and new) but nowadays since the switch to html5, it's not supported anymore.

I found some possible candidates here:
https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=search;basic_search=chat
https://www.arrowchat.com/smf-chat/
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=475150.0

What do you think would work best for this forum?

UPDATE:
As a lot of people did not read the posts after this OP, here are some things that were discussed:

1. This will be a personalized chat (similar to FB messenger - only 2 people will talk in a chat) not a main chat where everybody would join and talk nonsense.

2. There are a number of limitations that can be implemented into it (most likely they already exist) like:
  • Number of active chats at one time could be limited based on rank
  • Access to it could also be limited based on rank
  • Limit of instant messages (IMs) that can be sent out on an hourly basis to different users based on rank
  • A button to "mute/block" a user

3. Advantages:
  • Communication would be faster
  • Easy to use when you have to send multiple replies, unlike the current PM system, but not a replacement of it
  • Not using 3rd party apps like skype, icq or other live chat apps that can be vulnerable to social engineering that leads to hacking your account here, e-mail, wallets etc.

It would be nice to test it out in this forum and see what the users think of it, since it won't be too much work to integrate it. If it catches on, maybe it could be added to epochtalk as well.

No system/feature will ever be perfect. We can integrate it, see how it works for a few weeks and tweak it along the way.

I would appreciate constructive posts on this. "Naysayers" that do not care to bring valid arguments to this can post somewhere else.
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March 30, 2018, 03:57:30 PM
 #2

It would be really nice to have a place where everyone can chat live and not be required to always switch to skype or other apps.
Refer to this thread: I Suggest in Forum Chat Box and Simple Games Section.
- On top of those: Implementing something like this, defeats the purpose of "PM limits".

best for this forum?
Since the proposal directly relates to this forum, you should move it to "Meta" instead.

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March 30, 2018, 07:31:10 PM
 #3

Refer to this thread: I Suggest in Forum Chat Box and Simple Games Section.
- On top of those: Implementing something like this, defeats the purpose of "PM limits".

I am aware of that thread from almost 3 years ago, it's the first thing that comes up when you search for "live chat"...   Roll Eyes I didn't want to mention it here.
What was the conclusion on that thread? Does it do any good to quote it here? No need to revive it.

Of course there are a number of limitations that can implemented into it (most likely they already exist) like:
  • Number of active chats at one time
  • Access to it based on a certain rank
  • Limit of IMs that can be sent out on an hourly basis
  • etc

Also, it does not necessarily need to be a general chat. It can be the same way as PMs: you can open a chat and talk to the user you want but now  you're using instant messaging.

Of course anything can be abused (even the current PM infrastructure), there's no perfect system but that doesn't mean we can't try, right? Smiley

Since the proposal directly relates to this forum, you should move it to "Meta" instead.

Indeed, it can be moved anywhere if the mods think it is more relevant, but anything you post in Meta will be buried by the "merit talk" posts....

I'm not sure what's the status of epochtalk since it has been in development for a few years. I have added this new feature here in case it can be included in epochtalk as well, and as an intermediary phase we can make a small customization on this forum software as well.

I would appreciate it if you could be more positive in the posts you do, rather than taking a "naysayer" stand.  Undecided That's easy to do.
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March 31, 2018, 04:53:52 AM
 #4

I am aware of that thread from almost 3 years ago, it's the first thing that comes up when you search for "live chat"...   Roll Eyes I didn't want to mention it here.
Then what's the point in making a similar (almost) suggestion?

What was the conclusion on that thread?
Most were against it.

Does it do any good to quote it here? No need to revive it.
Yes, in order for you to know what type of responses you'll be receiving.

Also, it does not necessarily need to be a general chat. It can be the same way as PMs: you can open a chat and talk to the user you want but now  you're using instant messaging.
I support this but again, there's the issue regarding the purpose of having a "PM limit" in place:

Implementing something like this, defeats the purpose of "PM limits".

If you're going to limit it in terms of that, then it will be quite similar to the normal way of sending a PM (shouldn't be counted as "live chat" anymore).
  • Limit of IMs that can be sent out on an hourly basis

Indeed, it can be moved anywhere if the mods think it is more relevant, but anything you post in Meta will be buried by the "merit talk" posts....
Fair point (unfortunately). You can always bump it (once in 24 hrs) but since you added the following, then no need to move it:

I have added this new feature here in case it can be included in epochtalk as well,
You should add it to the "OP" as well.

I'm not sure what's the status of epochtalk since it has been in development for a few years.
This:

Yeah, it's long overdue but it is being worked on constantly as we speak.
You can follow its development here: https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk

I would appreciate it if you could be more positive in the posts you do, rather than taking a "naysayer" stand.  Undecided That's easy to do.
I'm trying to be realistic. Also, I'm not completely against it.

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March 31, 2018, 08:52:20 AM
 #5

Then what's the point in making a similar (almost) suggestion?
Most were against it.
Yes, in order for you to know what type of responses you'll be receiving.

The point is that you can create a demand for the chat and maybe new people on this forum (I bet a lot of users joined in 3 years) may also want it.


I support this but again, there's the issue regarding the purpose of having a "PM limit" in place:

Ok, it's good that we agree on something  Roll Eyes Sort of anyway...


If you're going to limit it in terms of that, then it will be quite similar to the normal way of sending a PM (shouldn't be counted as "live chat" anymore).

I think I was a bit sketchy on this - I meant limit the number of IMs you can send per hour to different users not to the same user.
The same user thing can be solved by having some sort of a "mute/block" button on the chat.


Fair point (unfortunately). You can always bump it (once in 24 hrs) but since you added the following, then no need to move it:
You should add it to the "OP" as well.

Yes, you're right, could of been more clear on this. I though it was implied that if you request a feature in the current forum system it will be needed in the new software as well. But then that's why I posted in this section in the first place.


I would appreciate it if you could be more positive in the posts you do, rather than taking a "naysayer" stand.  Undecided That's easy to do.
I'm trying to be realistic. Also, I'm not completely against it.

It's good that you are trying to be realistic but you need to lighten up a bit man, I mean we're talking about an internet forum not heart surgery Smiley What's wrong in making our interaction/communication here easier?

It's good that you're not against it, I think I might have also replied to a few of the points you listed on the old thread, here.

Like I said earlier, no system/feature will ever be perfect. We can just start working on it, see how it works for a few weeks and tweak it along the way.
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March 31, 2018, 01:26:40 PM
 #6

I don't think theymos would have time to implement something like this that it's not "important" and which discussion did not lead to anything.

Btw, I believe the "New forum software" board is related to the new forum software that is being developed (epochtalk), so your links are useless. If you want theymos to implement this live chat in the current forum (SMF), this should be in the "Meta" board. The epochtalk dev would probably need to code the live chat from the scratch.

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March 31, 2018, 07:24:13 PM
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 #7

I don't think theymos would have time to implement something like this that it's not "important" and which discussion did not lead to anything.
That's the whole point, he doesn't need to implement it Smiley It's already done and it only needs to be integrated in this SMF software. That's extremely easy to do. If this live chat feature doesn't catch on, then there's no need to integrate it in epochtalk. Although, I strongly believe that it will be very useful to have in the future epochtalk as well.

The epochtalk dev would probably need to code the live chat from the scratch.
Why do you think a chat feature needs to be created from scratch? There are a lot of chat systems out there that are open source. Although, I doubt acquiring a license would be a problem from BCT.

You guys still don't get it... What would be wrong with new features added to the forum?  Shocked

If you don't want to use the live chat feature you are welcome to avoid it, but others will like it Smiley
I would prefer to use it instead of giving my skype, icq or other live chat contacts to unknown people on this forum that can social engineer the shit out of them and hack my BCT account, e-mail accounts or wallets. You have no idea how easy is this to do.
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April 01, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Last edit: April 01, 2018, 11:09:59 AM by SFR10
 #8

That's the whole point, he doesn't need to implement it Smiley It's already done and it only needs to be integrated in this SMF software. That's extremely easy to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the case (for this forum).

Why do you think a chat feature needs to be created from scratch?
The answer to that, it's similar to why we're still using an outdated version of SMF (1.1.19), instead of having the "latest version":
- This forum has been modified in a massive scale (for something to work, more modifications are needed and that's one of the issues).

More information:

RFC: new forum software specifications
Looking for someone to create/modify software for this forum [5500+ BTC]

Update:
When I talk with you guys I feel like I'm at work and I'm trying to convince product owners that have no idea on how this can be done or what it implies.
I'm not a coder but hoping that what you said, it's correct (without adding a possibility for security threats).

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April 01, 2018, 09:22:50 AM
 #9

Unfortunately, that's not the case (for this forum).
Huh

The answer to that, it's similar to why we're still using an outdated version of SMF (1.1.19), instead of having the "latest version":
- This forum has been modified in a massive scale (for something to work, more modifications are needed and that's one of the issues).

More information:

RFC: new forum software specifications
Looking for someone to create/modify software for this forum [5500+ BTC]

The chat thing is an external piece of software, it has nothing to do with the customizations that were done for SMF or moving to another SMF version.
When I did it about 10 years ago, I only had to modify the page where the "home", "help", "donate" etc. buttons are displayed and include a new button called "chat". You clicked on it and it would use the same authentication token as the forum uses.

When I talk with you guys I feel like I'm at work and I'm trying to convince product owners that have no idea on how this can be done or what it implies. It's increasingly funny.  Cheesy
I'm getting some popcorn.
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April 01, 2018, 02:17:14 PM
 #10

I do really agree with this. It was so funny reading your conversation. Like now your having a conversation it will be  faster if there is a live chat here.

Unfortunately, that's not the case (for this forum).
Huh

The answer to that, it's similar to why we're still using an outdated version of SMF (1.1.19), instead of having the "latest version":
- This forum has been modified in a massive scale (for something to work, more modifications are needed and that's one of the issues).

More information:

RFC: new forum software specifications
Looking for someone to create/modify software for this forum [5500+ BTC]

The chat thing is an external piece of software, it has nothing to do with the customizations that were done for SMF or moving to another SMF version.
When I did it about 10 years ago, I only had to modify the page where the "home", "help", "donate" etc. buttons are displayed and include a new button called "chat". You clicked on it and it would use the same authentication token as the forum uses.

When I talk with you guys I feel like I'm at work and I'm trying to convince product owners that have no idea on how this can be done or what it implies. It's increasingly funny.  Cheesy
I'm getting some popcorn.
That's the whole point, he doesn't need to implement it Smiley It's already done and it only needs to be integrated in this SMF software. That's extremely easy to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the case (for this forum).

Why do you think a chat feature needs to be created from scratch?
The answer to that, it's similar to why we're still using an outdated version of SMF (1.1.19), instead of having the "latest version":
- This forum has been modified in a massive scale (for something to work, more modifications are needed and that's one of the issues).

More information:

RFC: new forum software specifications
Looking for someone to create/modify software for this forum [5500+ BTC]

Update:
When I talk with you guys I feel like I'm at work and I'm trying to convince product owners that have no idea on how this can be done or what it implies.
I'm not a coder but hoping that what you said, it's correct (without adding a possibility for security threats).

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April 01, 2018, 09:10:34 PM
 #11

I do really agree with this. It was so funny reading your conversation. Like now your having a conversation it will be  faster if there is a live chat here.
Yes, it was funny for me too  Grin

Putting all things aside, hopefully something good will come out of it and we'll be able to chat more easily.
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April 01, 2018, 10:57:12 PM
 #12

Costly feature. easy to DOS.
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April 02, 2018, 01:10:10 AM
Merited by bill gator (1)
 #13

How the chat will look like :
300,000 users online.
User1: knock knock, how to rank up?
User2: red tagged by Lauda (or pharma or...etc) why tagged they do me i no do nothing bad (<3 Google translate)
User3: noob read sticky at meta...
User4: whine away noob and stop scamming people
User5: https://bitcointalk.org/...
User6: lauda (or pharma or anyone from team1) Is... (bad boy and the song about being alt will start again- singed by team2)
User7: indeed user6, they are alt in addition to nullius
User8 (team1): you got negative trust because you asking for 500 BTC without collateral!
User9 (team2): team1 should be banned!
...

Now, this is why I prefer to not having a chat at all, or maybe a personalised chat? But this will consume too much data...
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April 02, 2018, 04:40:06 AM
 #14

How the chat will look like :
300,000 users online.
User1: knock knock, how to rank up?
User2: red tagged by Lauda (or pharma or...etc) why tagged they do me i no do nothing bad (<3 Google translate)
User3: noob read sticky at meta...
User4: whine away noob and stop scamming people
User5: https://bitcointalk.org/...
User6: lauda (or pharma or anyone from team1) Is... (bad boy and the song about being alt will start again- singed by team2)
User7: indeed user6, they are alt in addition to nullius
User8 (team1): you got negative trust because you asking for 500 BTC without collateral!
User9 (team2): team1 should be banned!
...

Now, this is why I prefer to not having a chat at all, or maybe a personalised chat? But this will consume too much data...

Lol! You get it quite right. Only old members who does have real knowledge and information regarding Cryptocurrencies or Bitcoin in general will be active once they decided to add up this chat feature. Another thing that I don't like about the idea is neglecting the continuous conversation among threads within the forum.

A personalised chat is similar to PM (Private Message) so there's no sense of implementing such one. And I also sense that high rank members will be spammed by newbies inquiries were they will ask common or basic questions.

The site is still good as it is and I see a lot of improvement since the merit implementation. Let the admins do their work as they might have a better idea rather than this chat thingy.
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April 02, 2018, 09:23:33 AM
 #15

How the chat will look like :
300,000 users online.
User1: knock knock, how to rank up?
User2: red tagged by Lauda (or pharma or...etc) why tagged they do me i no do nothing bad (<3 Google translate)
User3: noob read sticky at meta...
User4: whine away noob and stop scamming people
User5: https://bitcointalk.org/...
User6: lauda (or pharma or anyone from team1) Is... (bad boy and the song about being alt will start again- singed by team2)
User7: indeed user6, they are alt in addition to nullius
User8 (team1): you got negative trust because you asking for 500 BTC without collateral!
User9 (team2): team1 should be banned!
...

Now, this is why I prefer to not having a chat at all, or maybe a personalised chat? But this will consume too much data...

It seems like you only read the OP when you post. That's a shame, I was expecting more from legendary members  Undecided

....
A personalised chat is similar to PM (Private Message) so there's no sense of implementing such one. And I also sense that high rank members will be spammed by newbies inquiries were they will ask common or basic questions.
...
I think you got it all wrong. The live chat would be similar to the PM system in the sense that you talk with one guy (similar to FB messenger for example) but you can have multiple chats open.
Rather than going back and forth with PMs that are not in a thread view and are disorganized (not to mention that you need to keep refreshing to see if you got a PM), you could use the chat feature and talk easier.

This approach would be fast, easy to use and will not require any 3rd party apps like skype to be used.

....
And I also sense that high rank members will be spammed by newbies inquiries were they will ask common or basic questions.
...
Isn't this the same problem as we have with PMs? Of course there can be "mute/ignore" buttons for it to avoid abuse.

I will update the OP posts with more info since nobody reads the posts in between...
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April 02, 2018, 01:43:06 PM
 #16

How the chat will look like :
300,000 users online.
User1: knock knock, how to rank up?
User2: red tagged by Lauda (or pharma or...etc) why tagged they do me i no do nothing bad (<3 Google translate)
User3: noob read sticky at meta...
User4: whine away noob and stop scamming people
User5: https://bitcointalk.org/...
User6: lauda (or pharma or anyone from team1) Is... (bad boy and the song about being alt will start again- singed by team2)
User7: indeed user6, they are alt in addition to nullius
User8 (team1): you got negative trust because you asking for 500 BTC without collateral!
User9 (team2): team1 should be banned!
...

Now, this is why I prefer to not having a chat at all, or maybe a personalised chat? But this will consume too much data...

It seems like you only read the OP when you post. That's a shame, I was expecting more from legendary members  Undecided

No, he explains it very well.
That's the reality of what it will be.

Another thing is that, live chat will cause lag to those people who using PC without a good quality.

Another perfect way to explain it: join a bounty chat in the telegram with the forum number members or even less lets say 20,000 members and take a look how people will flood the chat with nonsense things.

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April 02, 2018, 01:53:27 PM
 #17

No, he explains it very well.
That's the reality of what it will be.

Another thing is that, live chat will cause lag to those people who using PC without a good quality.

Another perfect way to explain it: join a bounty chat in the telegram with the forum number members or even less lets say 20,000 members and take a look how people will flood the chat with nonsense things.

1. This will be a personalized chat (similar to FB messenger) not a main chat where everybody would join and talk nonsense.

I don't know what to do to make people read...  Roll Eyes

I have tried everything but it seems it is hopeless...
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April 02, 2018, 02:48:27 PM
 #18

I don't know what to do to make people read...  Roll Eyes

I have tried everything but it seems it is hopeless...

I already gave you an explanation why this will not happens, you only need to focus in what i wrote.
Having 1 chat for all is useless since it will be flooded with no sense.
Having a personalised chat for 2 persons as you stated or even for a small group will not happens because it needs too much data. A forums where the members lists, general statistics in profile, who is online data...etc are all disabled to reduce data consumption, will not support your in-forum idea.
Am I wrong?
Anyway good luck.
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April 02, 2018, 03:11:59 PM
 #19

About a year ago, I had a teamspeak channel. This was provided free by one of my hosting companies. I have been in discussions with a couple of senior members here with a view of opening this for private invitation only conversations. It would need to be invitation only, as general access would render it useless because of the spammers. Unfortunately, I hadn't used this channel for several months, and the hosting company decided to close the server following substantial increases in the licence fees. I have a VPS server that I'm not using, and I may use this to provide an equivalent service, but it won't be for a few months.

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