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Author Topic: indian exchanges , overly complex and unfunctional ?  (Read 789 times)
btc_enigma
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November 01, 2013, 08:08:05 AM
 #1

Hi,

I have reviewed almost all the indian exchanges, inrbtc.com, buysellbitco.in to name a few.
  • Most of these sites requires around 8 step for me to even do something, I might as well make my own exchange in  8 steps
  • The time period from most faq looks like from 1 - 4 days,  
  • Whatever happened to showing volumes and taking buy/sell orders ?
  • No good indian exchange is showing up its graph in bitcoincharts.com , we have 12 US exchanges and 3 chinese ones. How does anybody know the volume of indian currency being traded in bitcoins ?

To see what I am talking about see fybsg.com, or any other good international exchange . Here are the basic stuff needed :
  • Show and keep  a local balance of rupees in the user account, no need for user to continuously transfer funds to buy/sell new coins
  • Show volumes and integrate with bitcoincharts.com
  • Allow user to specify buy/sell orders instead of giving them bitcoins at fixed price
  • 2FA, not necessary to would be good
  • Automated trading api

I am unsure of what are the legal aspects of an exchange in India. I am willing to help technically to make a better bitcoin exchange. Lets have a discussion on  what are logistics in getting this done. Lets not be stuck in mediocrity

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buysellbitcoin
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November 01, 2013, 09:02:15 AM
 #2

Hi,

I have reviewed almost all the indian exchanges, inrbtc.com, buysellbitco.in to name a few.
  • Most of these sites requires around 8 step for me to even do something, I might as well make my own exchange in  8 steps
  • The time period from most faq looks like from 1 - 4 days, 
  • Whatever happened to showing volumes and taking buy/sell orders ?
  • No good indian exchange is showing up its graph in bitcoincharts.com , we have 12 US exchanges and 3 chinese ones. How does anybody know the volume of indian currency being traded in bitcoins ?

To see what I am talking about see fybsg.com, or any other good international exchange . Here are the basic stuff needed :
  • Show and keep  a local balance of rupees in the user account, no need for user to continuously transfer funds to buy/sell new coins
  • Show volumes and integrate with bitcoincharts.com
  • Allow user to specify buy/sell orders instead of giving them bitcoins at fixed price
  • 2FA, not necessary to would be good
  • Automated trading api

I am unsure of what are the legal aspects of an exchange in India. I am willing to help technically to make a better bitcoin exchange. Lets have a discussion on  what are logistics in getting this done. Lets not be stuck in mediocrity


Hi,

Thanks for review Smiley

first thing, BuysellBitco.in is not an exchange and we do not wish to be one. We are over the counter trader for bitcoins and we buy and sell bitcoin from our stock only.

Money sector is very tightly regulated in India and if we talk licensing it requires too many to say as still there is no clear indication on what Bitcoin will be classified into.

As far as wait time concerns, you can buy or sell bitcoin in less than 10 minutes on buysellbitco.in, we can have many users from this forum only vouch for the same. The verification process one time effort and it is mandatory and it normally takes 10-15 minutes to get verified ( we though mention it may take 1 to 3 business days ).

We are working on lot more features and our new portal should be released in late December.

Regards


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inrbtcad
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November 01, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
 #3

      I am sure you want to put India on bitcoin exchanges Map  Let me take a go on a few of your statements.  These answers are specific to INRBTC only.

      INRBTC is not a traditional bitcoin exchange, it is a decentralised bitcoin exchange. It is a combination of localbitcoins and ordermatching.  This exchange is actually a bit ahead of curve because unlike Mt.Gox or other well known exchanges, any govt organisation cannot seize either bitcoins for funds from this exchange. There is no central repository.


      Infact INRBTC is an awkward answer to this question on redditt.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1aw9sp/is_anyone_developing_a_p2p_bitcoin_exchange/



    • Most of these sites requires around 8 step for me to even do something, I might as well make my own exchange in  8 steps

    Eventhough on INRBTC both for Buying and Selling bitcoins the number of steps mentioned are 9, the actual actions required from the user is only 3

    1) Place an Order
    2) Send deposit to confirm the order
    3) If Buyer -  Deposit amount directly into seller's account
    3) If Seller -  Deposit Bitcoins to a specific address



    • The time period from most faq looks like from 1 - 4 days,  
    At INRBTC the theoretical limit for closing a trade is 36 hours ( Especially for buyers holding HDFC Bank as it takes 24 hours for adding a beneficiary )

    but we have customers who can vouch for 30 mins as their max time for closing a transaction.

    The least time it took to close a trade was 3 minutes ( The buyer already had the seller bank account added as a beneficiary )





    • Whatever happened to showing volumes and taking buy/sell orders ?
    INRBTC does show the volume along with Buy Sell prices along with order volume and trade volume.

    We are not showing the complete order book and trade book because there is not much of a depth.

    Pretty soon we will show the complete order book and the complete trade book.




    • No good indian exchange is showing up its graph in bitcoincharts.com , we have 12 US exchanges and 3 chinese ones. How does anybody know the volume of indian currency being traded in bitcoins ?

    The volume at INRBTC is low, it is not more than 5 bitcoins per day.

    The volume is low either because INRBTC is not able to do a good job or there is really no volume in India. I really doubt the latter. So I will go with the assumption that we are not doing a good job marketing our exchange.




    To see what I am talking about see fybsg.com, or any other good international exchange . Here are the basic stuff needed :
    • Show and keep  a local balance of rupees in the user account, no need for user to continuously transfer funds to buy/sell new coins

    This has been deliberately avoided. We consider it a feature. Your funds are always safe in your bank account rather than ours.

    • Show volumes and integrate with bitcoincharts.com

    When the volume goes up to more than 50 bitcoins per day, INRBTC will integrate with bitcoincharts.com

    • Allow user to specify buy/sell orders instead of giving them bitcoins at fixed price

    Already exists at INRBTC

    • 2FA, not necessary to would be good
    Again this is a feature at INRBTC, you can transact once or 100 times, you do not need a user id and password to trade here.  Again no one steal the customer funds or the bitcoins if they even hack our server.

    • Automated trading api
    This can be provided but at 5 bitcoins volumes per day, I did not imagine, anyway requires it. Let me know, we can provide with one.



    [/list][/list]

    Buy and Sell Bitcoins in Indian currency using INRBTC Trading Platform  INRBTC

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    subvolatil
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    November 01, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
     #4

    Hi,

    I have reviewed almost all the indian exchanges, inrbtc.com, buysellbitco.in to name a few.
    • Most of these sites requires around 8 step for me to even do something, I might as well make my own exchange in  8 steps
    • The time period from most faq looks like from 1 - 4 days,  
    • Whatever happened to showing volumes and taking buy/sell orders ?
    • No good indian exchange is showing up its graph in bitcoincharts.com , we have 12 US exchanges and 3 chinese ones. How does anybody know the volume of indian currency being traded in bitcoins ?

    To see what I am talking about see fybsg.com, or any other good international exchange . Here are the basic stuff needed :
    • Show and keep  a local balance of rupees in the user account, no need for user to continuously transfer funds to buy/sell new coins
    • Show volumes and integrate with bitcoincharts.com
    • Allow user to specify buy/sell orders instead of giving them bitcoins at fixed price
    • 2FA, not necessary to would be good
    • Automated trading api

    I am unsure of what are the legal aspects of an exchange in India. I am willing to help technically to make a better bitcoin exchange. Lets have a discussion on  what are logistics in getting this done. Lets not be stuck in mediocrity



    btc_enigma , you are  correct.  the  problem  is that india   does not  have  a  proper   bitcoin exchange  market. the  companies  that do  exists  in  India  are only a   currency  exchange companies.  (p.s - BuysellBitco.in you are  a  exchange  company  ,  you are  not  a  Exchange  market )

    The  main  problem   starting  up  a  exchange  market  is  that  a  company  cannot  take in money  deposit  from  individuals, if they  do  they  would  need  a  lot  of   licence  requirements  from the RBI. Technically  for the  RBI  if  you   accept  deposits  you are  considered  a   banking and  financial institution.  and in india  the Licence Raj  is  still in  existence.  The  government  makes  it   very  hard  to operate  such  a  business.  There are too many  regulation and  hoops  you need to jump through to  even   operate  a  business in  India.

    Creating  an exchange that  does  what  all  the major  international  bitcoin exchange does is not  a   huge  hurdle, it  is  the  Business  regulation and   government  interference that breaks  a  common mans  back.    

    Edit :
    Regarding  Volumes. there is no  actual volumes in  india,  there  are  very  few  people   that  uses  bitcoin,  There  is  barely  any  bitcoin  meetups that  happen  in india.  The  one  i  have  been to in Banglore  is  more   structured  to be  call an  investment  group .  Rather  than  a  meetup.

    Bitcoin India  IRC  Channel  is   empty  with  no  users    even  loging in .  which  means   no one  is  ready  to participate  in  contribution  to  bitcoin.

    Most  of the  users   here are only here  to make money. (Nothing  wrong  with that)

    I  have  not  see  a   passionate  member  who  believes  in  the  decentralized  power  of  bitcoin, and  want to   make  it   successful  and  not   bring  profits  ahead  of  contribution. 

    Grassroots initiatives are  verry rare.   

    The  most  Biggest  problem in my opinion is that bitcoin is  to expensive  for  people to  really   be involved in, espically  in  india.


    btc_enigma
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    November 02, 2013, 01:14:51 PM
     #5

    Few things about INRBTC, I understand now what you are trying to do, you are trying to be a distributed exchange

    • I was hoping to try it but then it asked me to deposit 0.1BTC before even doing anything ,  I gave up
    • Decentralization is good , surely Ripple can help
    • Are you doing an escrow , to make sure the trade happens fairly ?
    • Most people are worried that their money will just disappear, when they transfer it you. That is also the reason showing charts/activity helps. It helps to build some trust
    Quote
    The  main  problem   starting  up  a  exchange  market  is  that  a  company  cannot  take in money  deposit  from  individuals, if they  do  they  would  need  a  lot  of   licence  requirements  from the RBI. Technically  for the  RBI  if  you   accept  deposits  you are  considered  a   banking and  financial institution.  and in india  the Licence Raj  is  still in  existence.  The  government  makes  it   very  hard  to operate  such  a  business.  There are too many  regulation and  hoops  you need to jump through to  even   operate  a  business in  India.

    Creating  an exchange that  does  what  all  the major  international  bitcoin exchange does is not  a   huge  hurdle, it  is  the  Business  regulation and   government  interference that breaks  a  common mans  back.    

    I want to discuss this. What is stopping us from treating bitcoin as a commodity ? I guess thatz what BuysellBitco are doing. Until RBI comes up  with a statement saying this is money, isn't it till a commodity? Is using the word "exchange" for your website creating problems or its much deeper than that. Can someone elaborate on this ?

    Quote
    The  most  Biggest  problem in my opinion is that bitcoin is  to expensive  for  people to  really   be involved in, espically  in  india. Regarding  Volumes. there is no  actual volumes in  india,  there  are  very  few  people   that  uses  bitcoin,  There  is  barely  any  bitcoin  meetups that  happen  in india.  The  one  i  have  been to in Banglore  is  more   structured  to be  call an  investment  group .  Rather  than  a  meetup.

    Seeing how INR is hugely inflated and counting the number of bozos in our government,  I don't see widescale bitcoin adoption in India very far away.  subvolatil , there is a conference happening in bangalore in November. You should join and meet more of these investors

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    November 02, 2013, 02:04:58 PM
     #6

    Few things about INRBTC, I understand now what you are trying to do, you are trying to be a distributed exchange

    I was hoping to try it but then it asked me to deposit 0.1BTC before even doing anything ,  I gave up

    At INRBTC whenever a order is placed, the user will be asked to deposit 10% of the order value to confirm the order.

    In your case, you might have placed a order for buying/selling 1 BTC.  Hence the request to deposit 0.1 BTC
    I will be able to give you more specific details after looking at your order details.

    Why we take a deposit ?

    1) Deposit ensures that only serious buyers/sellers place an order, thereby eliminating spam orders and distorting order book.
    2) Deposit ensures that once a trade is executed, both the buyer and seller honor the trade, incase they do not they risk losing the 10% deposit.




    Are you doing an escrow , to make sure the trade happens fairly ?

    A trade happens when the Buyer price and Seller price matches.  After a trade is executed, the seller will be sent the BTC Address to deposit bitcoins. ( This address is held by INRBTC ). The Buyer will be sent the Bank Details of the seller along with the information of the BTC Address sent to the Seller. The buyer deposits the amount only after the BTC is transferred.  
    After the Seller confirms the Bank deposit, we release the BTC to the Buyer.


    Now the facts

    a) out of 185 Trades executed on our exchange since Sep 10th , all have been honored.
    b) A few instances when the bitcoin value was hugely volatile on Bitstamp and Mt. Gox even then trades executed on our exchange have been honored by the Buyer and the Seller.

    Most people are worried that their money will just disappear, when they transfer it you. That is also the reason showing charts/activity helps. It helps to build some trust

    I will agree that providing charts/activity will help a user evaluate a exchange better but as per Trust is concerned, it has to be earned everytime, Day in and Day out.

    Given the fact that till now no user/customer has a registered a complaint or worry about our service either on this forum or anywhere else, we do believe that we are earning the trust from the customers.

    We do have some good feedback from our users  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231585.0

    I also wish that more users who have utilized our services post their reviews or feedback


    Finally I would like to Thank you for raising these issues. It definitely helps to know the perspective from others.
    Do let me know how we can earn your trust.


    Buy and Sell Bitcoins in Indian currency using INRBTC Trading Platform  INRBTC

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    Benson Samuel
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    November 02, 2013, 04:19:37 PM
     #7

    Few things about INRBTC, I understand now what you are trying to do, you are trying to be a distributed exchange

    • I was hoping to try it but then it asked me to deposit 0.1BTC before even doing anything ,  I gave up
    • Decentralization is good , surely Ripple can help
    • Are you doing an escrow , to make sure the trade happens fairly ?
    • Most people are worried that their money will just disappear, when they transfer it you. That is also the reason showing charts/activity helps. It helps to build some trust
    Quote
    The  main  problem   starting  up  a  exchange  market  is  that  a  company  cannot  take in money  deposit  from  individuals, if they  do  they  would  need  a  lot  of   licence  requirements  from the RBI. Technically  for the  RBI  if  you   accept  deposits  you are  considered  a   banking and  financial institution.  and in india  the Licence Raj  is  still in  existence.  The  government  makes  it   very  hard  to operate  such  a  business.  There are too many  regulation and  hoops  you need to jump through to  even   operate  a  business in  India.

    Creating  an exchange that  does  what  all  the major  international  bitcoin exchange does is not  a   huge  hurdle, it  is  the  Business  regulation and   government  interference that breaks  a  common mans  back.    

    I want to discuss this. What is stopping us from treating bitcoin as a commodity ? I guess thatz what BuysellBitco are doing. Until RBI comes up  with a statement saying this is money, isn't it till a commodity? Is using the word "exchange" for your website creating problems or its much deeper than that. Can someone elaborate on this ?

    Quote
    The  most  Biggest  problem in my opinion is that bitcoin is  to expensive  for  people to  really   be involved in, espically  in  india. Regarding  Volumes. there is no  actual volumes in  india,  there  are  very  few  people   that  uses  bitcoin,  There  is  barely  any  bitcoin  meetups that  happen  in india.  The  one  i  have  been to in Banglore  is  more   structured  to be  call an  investment  group .  Rather  than  a  meetup.

    Seeing how INR is hugely inflated and counting the number of bozos in our government,  I don't see widescale bitcoin adoption in India very far away.  subvolatil , there is a conference happening in bangalore in November. You should join and meet more of these investors


    The problem with running an exchange lies in the INR deposit. Non banking entities cannot collect user deposits and store for over 7 days without reporting.

    You are absolutely correct in identifying that using the word 'exchange' can cause some problems. But the main issue is with customer deposits. Fix that problem and we should have some more traction on the 'exchange' front.

    As far as I can see buysellbitco.in and inrbtc are playing in the safest possible space and that does offer protection to their customers as well.

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