Another Person 2 Person Payments (e.g., PayPal, Dwolla) network: PopMoney

[Stephen Gornick]

According to the site, 165 banks are launching "email and mobile payments" through PopMoney  

PopMoney ("Pay Other People") is similar to PayPal and Dwolla  in that you can make a payment transfer to someone else and they receive an email or SMS text with a link to the site allowing the recipient to register and claim the funds.  PopMoney appears to be an ACH-only payment network, similar to Dwolla.  

I wonder if PopMoney might have the benefit, since it is being offered through the bank, that the funding method when sending money is drawn from your balance in your bank account, and thus it clears instantly.  [Update: nope, funds are available to the recipient after the normal 3 or so business days.]   This would compare favorable versus Dwolla which requires that you add money before making a payment or when you make a payment with insufficient balance it takes two to three business days for the transaction's ACH transaction to be settled before your payment is sent.  Sending money with PayPal is instantly available to the recipient, but PayPal floats the funds to the sender until the ACH settlement clears and insures against insufficient funds by way of a credit card backup funding method.
[edited]

Payments made with Bitcoin, of course, can only be made with funds available in the wallet and are "settled" as far as the recipient is concered nearly instantly (6 confirmations is the default for the Bitcoin client).

http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/articles.php?art_id=3329&opg=1

[1714987535]

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[1714987535]

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[Stephen Gornick]

PopMoney ("Pay Other People") is similar to PayPal and Dwolla  in that you can make a payment transfer to someone else and they receive an email or SMS text with a link to the site allowing the recipient to register and claim the funds.  PopMoney appears to be an ACH-only payment network, similar to Dwolla.  

Announced yesterday was:

CashEdge, Visa partner to extend Popmoney P2P service to debit/credit cards

The capability is expected to become available in the summer of 2011.

enable US consumers to use their eligible Visa credit, debit and prepaid accounts to send and receive P2P payments domestically and internationally via the Popmoney service.

http://www.thepaypers.com/news/online-payments/cashedge-visa-partner-to-extend-popmoney-p2p-service-to-debit-credit-cards/743749-3

The capability is expected to become available in the summer of 2011.

[Stephen Gornick]

enable US consumers to use their eligible Visa credit, debit and prepaid accounts to send and receive P2P payments domestically and internationally via the Popmoney service.

MSN Money covered this today:

If Visa's P2P service is similar to PayClick, a model it rolled out in Australia in 2010, the money will have to be spent through Visa credit, debit or reloadable prepaid cards.

Send funds directly from their bank account to a recipient's Visa account [after entering the recipient's 16-digit Visa account, e-mail address or mobile phone number.

The banking partners that VISA is using for this capability is CashEdge's PopMoney and also ZashPay.  Transactions with ZashPay cost $0.75 each.

The P2P pie is huge, and growing quickly.

  http://money.msn.com/credit-cards/article.aspx?post=d2fe0f3f-bf92-4ee8-86d9-a9a82f49aa98

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Keefe on #Bitcoin-otc used popmoney to send me some money and it worked great. Would recommend

[orcy]

I think that having the P2P in VISA can boost the bitcoin dramatically. A card to card services already available in some countries for VISA and Mastercard, so a service can be created that will make it possible for people to exchange their VISA dollars to bitcoins and vise versa in a clearcoin manner.

[Stephen Gornick]

This space is getting a little crowded.

Today American Express announced Serve, a Person to Person payment network quite similar to PayPal:

- Add funds via ACH, credit or debit card, or from another Serve user (P2P).
- Withdraw funds via direct deposit (ACH) , check, ATM, or point of sale including cash back
- Pay any other Serve user (P2P)

  http://www.serve.com
  http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/4165831078/amex-p2p-serve-launch

[dacoinminster]

According to the site, 165 banks are launching "email and mobile payments" through PopMoney  

PopMoney ("Pay Other People") is similar to PayPal and Dwolla  in that you can make a payment transfer to someone else and they receive an email or SMS text with a link to the site allowing the recipient to register and claim the funds.  PopMoney appears to be an ACH-only payment network, similar to Dwolla.  

I wonder if PopMoney might have the benefit, since it is being offered through the bank, that the funding method when sending money is drawn from your balance in your bank account, and thus it clears instantly.  This would compare favorable versus Dwolla which requires that you add money before making a payment or when you make a payment with insufficient balance it takes two to three business days for the transaction's ACH transaction to be settled before your payment is sent.  Sending money with PayPal is instantly available to the recipient, but PayPal is floats the funds to the sender until the ACH settlement clears and insures against insufficient funds by way of a credit card backup funding method.
[edited]

Payments made with Bitcoin, of course, can only be made with funds available in the wallet and are "settled" as far as the recipient is concered nearly instantly (6 confirmations is the default for the Bitcoin client).

http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/articles.php?art_id=3329&opg=1

I just noticed my bank offers PopMoney. I'm willing to buy/sell small amounts of bitcoins if anybody wants to experiment (Price would be the MtGox spot price, shifted a bit in my favor - make me an offer by PM). PopMoney claims they have no fees at this time.

[SgtSpike]

The P2P pie is growing ever large, which means the portion of untaxed "income" is growing larger as well.  Who wants to take bets on how long it'll take the government to start automatically including some sort of tax on transactions made with these services?

[error]

3 business days for PopMoney. No thanks.

[Stephen Gornick]

UK gets a similar type of service: Pingit from Barclays

Apparently if you aren't a Barclays customer, you can register and link your own UK bank account and at least be able to receive funds from another user ("from friends and family") who does bank with Barclays.

Transfers are free though, apparently.

- http://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/02/16/uk-bank-barclays-targets-paypal-with-new-mobile-number-money-transfer-service-pingit
- http://barclays.co.uk/PersonalBanking/P1242603570446?WT.mc_id=301RDpingit

[gusti]

If it can be reversed, poopmoney is risky as paypal.

[Stephen Gornick]

If it can be reversed, poopmoney is risky as paypal.

Not quite the same. 

ACH reversals are generally only done so when the payment wasn't authorized in the first place (e.g., identity theft occurred).  Credit card chargebacks, on the other hand, can be as simple as "item not as described".

Here's a guide that ranks levels of risk:

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods

[Stephen Gornick]

Interesting ... will be able to send internationally using PopMoney to MoneyGram service:
 - http://www.mobilepaymentstoday.com/article/191874/MoneyGram-and-Fiserv-hook-up-on-mobile-P2P-payments

[marked]

Interesting ... will be able to send internationally using PopMoney to MoneyGram service:

a slight aside, have you seen currencycloud.com where it appears to be business to business market matching bypassing banking mechanisms. Techcrunch mentioned them last week.

Not sure what KYC mechanisms there are, or if sufficiently high volume private users can join in.

marked

[Stephen Gornick]

a slight aside, have you seen currencycloud.com where it appears to be business to business market matching bypassing banking mechanisms. Techcrunch mentioned them last week.

Not sure what KYC mechanisms there are, or if sufficiently high volume private users can join in.

There are some competitors for smaller sized operators:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1459.0;all (CurrencyFair)
 - http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/7259588518 (CurrencyFair and TransferWise).

With bitcoin being a non-reversible payment system whichever of these services starts to accept Bitcoin as a funding method and/or exchange will find a new growth engine.

[finway]

Is p2p person-to-person
versus
account_NO-to-account_NO

?

[EuSouBitcoin]

What have been your experiences with PopMoney? With the problems that Dwolla's been having, see
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76571.0
I'd like to see another inexpensive way to transfer USD from my checking account to bitcoin exchanges. Because ACH is involved the transfers will be relatively slow. I was hoping to see one of these Person 2 Person payment services catch on but so far, one hasn't. First, there are relatively low limits on the transfers (e.g. $1,000 for PopMoney). Second, they may entail opening another bank account. Third, it's not clear if they would be bitcoin tolerant (like Dwolla) or officially anti-bitcoin (a la PayPal) or they could fall somewhere along a bitcoin-friendly continuum. When I look through this list
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods
I see many potential successors to Dwolla, but when will one catch on? Ones I have hopes for along with comments are:
Bank ACH - not offered to consumer bank accounts AFAIK
PopMoney - since a PopMoney account is a separate account (like PayPal and Dwolla) and perhaps since there are a large group of financial institutions involved this service might fit better with bitcoin
ING Direct's Person 2 Person - I used it with ExchB.com successfully but haven't used it since ExchB.com closed its site. $5,000 limit on payments, but payments can only be sent from an ING Direct account
Chase QuickPay - having some problems, see
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=11494.0
but although 1 of the accounts (sender or receiver) must be a Chase account, money can be sent from a non-Chase account (a plus compared to PopMoney and ING Direct)
I like Dwolla and I hope they can successfully combat fraud. But for the bitcoin community's sake, a good alternative sure would be nice to have.

Eu Sou Bitcoin

[realnowhereman]

Is anyone else struck by how badly these compare to bitcoin?

Three day clearing periods?  Account-to-account transfer?  Presumably they only work within one bank; and worse within one country?

This is what they think is innovation?

[EuSouBitcoin]

Another reason these services may not be a good fit for bitcoin exchanges is that these services are designed to be Person-to-Person services and not Person-to-Business services.

[Stephen Gornick]

The list of banks which work with PopMoney (which is required in order to initiate / send money) is fairly limited.

Because ACH is involved the transfers will be relatively slow.

Yup, three days for the transaction to clear for spending by the recipient.  

PopMoney - since a PopMoney account is a separate account (like PayPal and Dwolla) and perhaps since there are a large group of financial institutions

But it does not work as an account, like PayPal or Dwolla.  The funds only go to the recipient's bank, not to an account with Popmoney, so if there is a further transfer (e.g., to PayPal or Dwolla, etc.) there are three more days in that process.)  For the sender, the payment is pulled instantly from the sender's bank account.

The same problem with Dwolla, Chase P2P, ING, etc., is that if there is a claim of fraud, the funds will be clawed back.  PopMoney gets a "5" on the hardness scale here:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods