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Poll
Question: Will you reverse your Dwolla transactions?
Yes (free money!) - 18 (17.5%)
No (I'm ethical) - 72 (69.9%)
No (I think I'd get in trouble) - 9 (8.7%)
No (Cause I already did it) - 1 (1%)
Maybe (I'll see what happens to other people) - 3 (2.9%)
Total Voters: 102

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Author Topic: [POLL] Will you reverse your Dwolla transactions?  (Read 2677 times)
dacoinminster
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July 27, 2011, 05:00:21 PM
 #1

You learn Dwolla transactions ARE reversible. You call your bank.

You: What's this "Duh-wah-luh" thing in my account history?
Bank: Some kind of payment thing like paypal
You: I didn't authorize that
Bank: They deposited in your account to confirm it was yours
You: I didn't see that. I'VE BEEN HAXORED!!!
Bank: We'll take care of it.

Bank to Dwolla: We'll take that money back.
Dwolla to the exchanges: We'll take that money back.
Exchange to users: Um, everything is fine. Don't look behind the curtain

I haven't done this, nor do I plan to, but I'm wondering, will anyone here admit they have done this or plan to?

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dacoinminster
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July 27, 2011, 05:19:22 PM
 #2

So far we are very ethical. Hmmm. Maybe it is no surprise that unethical people lie about being unethical Smiley

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July 27, 2011, 05:20:10 PM
 #3

I'm actually fairly shocked at the poll results after I voted, given the type of people I've seen posting here in the past...
GeniuSxBoY
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July 27, 2011, 05:30:48 PM
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I'm actually fairly shocked at the poll results after I voted, given the type of people I've seen posting here in the past...


There's a big difference between thinking of it versus doing it.
Bitcoin Swami
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July 27, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
 #5

I wasn't but now that you showed me how easy it is, why not.

Thanks

dacoinminster
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July 27, 2011, 05:59:32 PM
 #6

I wasn't but now that you showed me how easy it is, why not.

Thanks

Just don't blame me if you go to jail!

If I were running an exchange, I would disconnect my bank account from Dwolla ASAP! Let them sleep in the bed they made.

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July 27, 2011, 06:09:06 PM
 #7

Just keep in mind those voting yes... pretty sure doing this would be considered fraud.  If Tradehill and/or Dwolla and/or your bank can prove that you were intentionally defrauding them, you could go to jail, have felony(s) on your record, have large fines levied against you, etc.

If you're not an ethical person, fine.  But don't be surprised when the law comes back to bite you.
dacoinminster
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July 27, 2011, 06:13:11 PM
 #8

Just keep in mind those voting yes... pretty sure doing this would be considered fraud.  If Tradehill and/or Dwolla and/or your bank can prove that you were intentionally defrauding them, you could go to jail, have felony(s) on your record, have large fines levied against you, etc.

If you're not an ethical person, fine.  But don't be surprised when the law comes back to bite you.

I'd love to be a fly on the courtroom wall when the plaintiffs try to explain bitcoin to the judge. Of course the defendant would claim they had no idea what bitcoin is.

Bitcoin Swami
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July 27, 2011, 06:31:15 PM
 #9

I wasn't but now that you showed me how easy it is, why not.

Thanks

Just don't blame me if you go to jail!

If I were running an exchange, I would disconnect my bank account from Dwolla ASAP! Let them sleep in the bed they made.

I was being sarcastic.  Although i dont see how putting a step by step on how to do it, is very helpful.  I would never do something like that.
dacoinminster
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July 27, 2011, 06:55:10 PM
 #10

I was being sarcastic.  Although i dont see how putting a step by step on how to do it, is very helpful.  I would never do something like that.

Point taken, although the steps aren't exactly hard to figure out. I've been baffled by how Dwolla planned to handle this scenario ever since I first heard of them. I even spoke to one of their reps on the phone asking how their system could possibly be non-reversible in the case of fraud. He didn't know the answer, and it turns out they don't have one.

I posted the steps somewhat tongue-in-cheek because I don't think people realize how big of a problem this could be.

Scammers have already thought of this. Ethical people need to know what is happening and what could happen.

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July 28, 2011, 01:26:01 AM
 #11

There's nothing fundamentally different about this from any other form of fraud. You make fraudulent statement, and then profit from it.

Frankly I found this question insulting. It's like going up to a random stranger on the street and asking them "Will you steal cars?".
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July 28, 2011, 01:43:37 AM
 #12

There's nothing fundamentally different about this from any other form of fraud. You make fraudulent statement, and then profit from it.

Frankly I found this question insulting. It's like going up to a random stranger on the street and asking them "Will you steal cars?".

I WOULD say the same thing, except, looking at the poll results, 17% of people are willing to steal and ripoff a company just because they can.  Looks like the OP pegged the people here for exactly who they are.  Liars, thieves, and the scum of the earth.  Only on 4chan would you find a higher percentage of people with reckless abandon for other peoples' well-being.
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July 28, 2011, 09:04:31 AM
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Just keep in mind those voting yes... pretty sure doing this would be considered fraud.  If Tradehill and/or Dwolla and/or your bank can prove that you were intentionally defrauding them, you could go to jail, have felony(s) on your record, have large fines levied against you, etc.

If you're not an ethical person, fine.  But don't be surprised when the law comes back to bite you.

I'd love to be a fly on the courtroom wall when the plaintiffs try to explain bitcoin to the judge. Of course the defendant would claim they had no idea what bitcoin is.

I'm assuming Dwolla has actually researched the case, otherwise they're fucking bitches (as in they're someone's bitch)



It'd be insanely easy to get evidence against someone "Hmm... right here in your browsers history I see MtGox, a bitcoin trading website, bitcoin.org, the website for the bitcoin client and a forum for bitcoin users, mtgox live, a monitoring site for the mtgox trading website, and BTCGuild, a ... ok I have no idea how to explain mining in generic terms
dacoinminster
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July 28, 2011, 02:12:53 PM
 #14

There's nothing fundamentally different about this from any other form of fraud. You make fraudulent statement, and then profit from it.

Frankly I found this question insulting. It's like going up to a random stranger on the street and asking them "Will you steal cars?".

I WOULD say the same thing, except, looking at the poll results, 17% of people are willing to steal and ripoff a company just because they can.  Looks like the OP pegged the people here for exactly who they are.  Liars, thieves, and the scum of the earth.  Only on 4chan would you find a higher percentage of people with reckless abandon for other peoples' well-being.

I know there are both honest people here and evil scammers. I was just wondering, in what proportion?

It'd be insanely easy to get evidence against someone "Hmm... right here in your browsers history I see MtGox, a bitcoin trading website, bitcoin.org, the website for the bitcoin client and a forum for bitcoin users, mtgox live, a monitoring site for the mtgox trading website, and BTCGuild, a ... ok I have no idea how to explain mining in generic terms

A smart scammer would disassociate themselves with bitcoin in every traceable way, but some of them very well could be that dumb.

Xephan
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July 28, 2011, 02:39:40 PM
 #15

I'm actually fairly shocked at the poll results after I voted, given the type of people I've seen posting here in the past...

I'm quite surprised too, was expecting higher percentages voting yes. After all, there are no rules on Dwolla (in fact no TOS I could find) that says users cannot change their mind and ask their bank to reverse a transaction. Any rational person looking towards their best interest would then conduct as many such transactions as they can. Wink

186q9YUW3x8TVHC5aYBEqgZZYMxft8Cw9f
SgtSpike
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July 28, 2011, 03:28:47 PM
 #16

I'm actually fairly shocked at the poll results after I voted, given the type of people I've seen posting here in the past...

I'm quite surprised too, was expecting higher percentages voting yes. After all, there are no rules on Dwolla (in fact no TOS I could find) that says users cannot change their mind and ask their bank to reverse a transaction. Any rational person looking towards their best interest would then conduct as many such transactions as they can. Wink

It doesn't matter whether it is in the TOS or not, it's still fraud, and anyone who reverses their transactions could still be prosecuted for defrauding dwolla/tradehill.
Xephan
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July 28, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
 #17

It doesn't matter whether it is in the TOS or not, it's still fraud, and anyone who reverses their transactions could still be prosecuted for defrauding dwolla/tradehill.

But but but if it's not in the TOS, it means Dwolla is implicitly allowing and agreeing to people doing it Wink

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SgtSpike
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July 28, 2011, 05:18:26 PM
 #18

It doesn't matter whether it is in the TOS or not, it's still fraud, and anyone who reverses their transactions could still be prosecuted for defrauding dwolla/tradehill.

But but but if it's not in the TOS, it means Dwolla is implicitly allowing and agreeing to people doing it Wink
Derp.   Tongue
iamzill
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July 28, 2011, 06:10:00 PM
 #19

I'm actually fairly shocked at the poll results after I voted, given the type of people I've seen posting here in the past...

I'm quite surprised too, was expecting higher percentages voting yes. After all, there are no rules on Dwolla (in fact no TOS I could find) that says users cannot change their mind and ask their bank to reverse a transaction. Any rational person looking towards their best interest would then conduct as many such transactions as they can. Wink


The convenience store down the street does not prohibit counterfeit bills in their TOS. In fact, they do not even have a TOS. Does that mean I can pay them with fake bills?

Making false statements with a fraudulent intent is a criminal act and will be prosecuted in criminal courts. TOS is a contract and any dispute will be settled in civil courts. Don't confuse the two.
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July 28, 2011, 06:19:10 PM
 #20

*wonders if the number of people who are lying when they say 'No' outweighs the number of people who are saying 'Yes' just to troll...*
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