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Poll
Question: Would you actually use it?
Yes. Definably would ship my parts out today! - 1 (7.7%)
Yes. Would purchase a few rigs to be setup. - 1 (7.7%)
Maybe, if some people give good reviews of the service. - 5 (38.5%)
No. The prices are too high. - 2 (15.4%)
No. Other reason [Please post] - 3 (23.1%)
Other [Please post] - 1 (7.7%)
Total Voters: 13

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Mining Center  (Read 1595 times)
bluefirecorp
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July 28, 2011, 02:01:31 AM
 #1

Hello,

I saw another thread like this --I had the idea ages ago and would like to know a bit more information.

Pretty much, the other user seemed a bit 'incompetent', networking wise [no offense to him].

Some background information:

Name: Gene
Age: 18
Experience: I hold my CCNA. None in the workforce, I went to a technical school for 2 years for training in computer networks and computer repair.
Accomplishments: I took 9th in the Nation for network administration (Business  Professionals of America), 4th in the State of Ohio (Business Professionals of America), and 3rd in the State of Ohio (Skills USA).
---------------------------

What the setup would be:

A warehouse with industrial sized AC, keeping the place below 70 degrees F. During winter, fans would be blowing in the cold air, keeping it below 30 degrees F (dehumidifiers running as well).


---------------------------

What the cost would be:

Depending on the service you choose in my setup form, depends on the costs. In general, if you are a tech savy user, you'd probably be paying less than 50 dollars for keeping your computer running there.
kWatt/hour price: Probably around 6 cents.
Monthly storage price: Maybe around 30 dollars for your first rig, 20 dollars any rig after that.

---------------------------

The network:

Each customer will be put on their own VLAN [Virtual Network, network separated logically, but physically on the same lines]. Each VLAN is routed to the internet. The VLANs can NOT communicate with each other via Access Control Lists. The computers will be connected to a 10/100 megabit switch (48 port probably). The connection to the Internet will probably be on a business line from Time Warner (15 megabit down, 2 megabit up), plenty of space to mine with. If we are noticing major slow downs in the line, we can upgrade that as well.

--------------------------

How it works:

In the form, you fill out how you want me to mine. If you do send in your own machine, I can use preset options already installed. If you don't have a machine, the form will explain your options.
YOU WILL NOT GET REMOTE ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINES!
I'm sorry, but all it'd take is one person trying to tunnel their way out -- and doing illegal stuff to get the entire warehouse seized and shutdown. Meaning EVERYONE would lose their machines, which I wouldn't want to happen.

More information about the form is here, I will probably re-type it for my needs later:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31761.msg402942#msg402942

-------------------------

Where is this 'form':

I am still designing the layout for easy to use, but with more advanced fields and options for those tech competent users.

--------------------------

Why do I even bother:

Just like you all, mining in an apartment/small house is a pain to say the least. Hard to keep the house cool, constantly blowing circuits. My electric company offers discounts on electricity for commercial lots -- the more you use, the cheaper it is. The fact of the matter is, my location is safe, reliable, and has a very very low natural disaster rate as well as crime rate. Let's just say, the last murder was 4 years ago or so, and the murder before that was...like 60 some years before. The population isn't tiny, but it's not that large compared to some towns.

-------------------------


This post is mainly for my ideas, and gathering data. It'd be pointless to even consider setting up a bitcoin mining center if no one else uses it. My rigs wouldn't even cover the expenses.


Anyways, thanks for reading,

~bluefirecorp


P.S. If you find any grammar/spelling mistakes, toss me a PM or post here. Thanks.

P.P.S: For making it to the bottom of the thread -- here you go, have a picture of one of my bunnies Smiley
Code:
http://i.imgur.com/Ugy0E.jpg
(It's a big picture)

P.P.P.S: X-post from: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=32441.0

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Yuusha
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July 28, 2011, 02:19:37 AM
 #2

Would use it if I didn't get free electricity and the service had been running for a few months reliably.
bluefirecorp
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July 28, 2011, 02:28:03 AM
 #3

Would use it if I didn't get free electricity and the service had been running for a few months reliably.

If you didn't get free electricity?

The cost of electricity is 6 cents per kilowatt hour. (Or so)

EDIT: OH! You already get free electricity (mom's basement?)

Maybe you want to expand? Tongue

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July 28, 2011, 03:17:56 AM
 #4

Haha, mom's basement is actually pretty accurate. I don't want to expand. But I think there could definitely be some interest in a service like this, considering the cheap electricity and not having to take care of the rig yourself.

Things that will hold people back are:

1. The risk. You could just run off with the machines at any time.
2. The shipping costs. Anyone who would need cheaper electricity is not likely to live in the United States, as the US has generally cheap electricity (at least from what I've heard from users here) while electricity in for example Australia can cost $0.30 - $0.40 kw/h, and here in Sweden common prices are $0.18 - $0.25.

Other than that, it's a good, desirable service.
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July 28, 2011, 03:38:59 AM
 #5

Haha, mom's basement is actually pretty accurate. I don't want to expand. But I think there could definitely be some interest in a service like this, considering the cheap electricity and not having to take care of the rig yourself.

Things that will hold people back are:

1. The risk. You could just run off with the machines at any time.
2. The shipping costs. Anyone who would need cheaper electricity is not likely to live in the United States, as the US has generally cheap electricity (at least from what I've heard from users here) while electricity in for example Australia can cost $0.30 - $0.40 kw/h, and here in Sweden common prices are $0.18 - $0.25.

Other than that, it's a good, desirable service.

1. Is covered by the fact that you'd have my shipping address, knowing where you can find me.

2. The shipping costs can be countered by just sending me the money to order the rigs themselves. This way, the shipping cost is pretty low (I do have Amazon Prime), and we can get a good price per megahash. The form I'll be setting up will have a lot of data to fill-in. It'll probably take a good 10-15 minutes to fill out.

~bluefirecorp

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July 28, 2011, 05:01:03 AM
 #6

If we know your address, a criminal mind would as well.  What say you get robbed?

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July 28, 2011, 08:03:53 AM
 #7

If we know your address, a criminal mind would as well.  What say you get robbed?

Low crime rate in this town -- as well as security on the warehouse. I was planning on having an alarm system as well as camera system.

Pretty much, with a face, you can identify the person pretty easily.

Also -- I may have it shipped to my house instead of directly to the warehouse. The planned location is only a couple miles away from here (easily 2-3 min drive for me).

~bluefirecorp

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July 28, 2011, 09:46:27 AM
 #8

I think you underestimate the cost.

* Forget the cooling installed. Unless you area toy operation, it WILL NOT BE ENOUGH. We plan a rack to have 64 ampere 230vols -2x32. 8 cases with 1-2 computers, every computer 2x1250 watt. No normal warehouse will hav ecooling you dont overload the moment you get sizable. And forget AC - what you need is not AC, but blowout fans, Take the hot air, get rid of it. A LOT more efficient than AC.
* The installation will cost. YOu need more on power and ain cost to get back the installation. Just an idea - WE (my data center) has to pull acable 25 meters for main power. Problem is - the main power of the building is not where I want to waste the space for a distribution, and the small side room that is good for it... needs some meters. THe bad: ONE METER (!) cable is about 100 UD. We tlak of 5 wires of 120 suqare milimeter EACH , qualified for 500 ampere power per phase, 3 phases. THis is a lot of money you need to put in.
* Racks cost moeny too, and the power distribution costs too. I am not sure why you guys all here talk of 20A fuses - I have a problem with 2x32A being "a little low" for a half-rack (i.e. 8 computers). Possiblybecause I plan loaing 6 cards into one computer Wink

Just to give you an idea . 6 racks are 128 ampere per phase, posibly use around 90. Going lower densigty may make sense - hardly a building is prepared to handle that power density. And you and me are too small to do anything usefull with the heat. Sadly. Could be a niceheating for a sauna Wink

* Remember redundant internet lines, remember UPS for local management (not miners).
* Security. YOu wll have a lot of value there. Not small stuff. So, sorry, acces cards and low crime rate will NOT cut it.
* What about people on site? ;)Not exactly cheap to have skilled people there in the middle of the night Wink

But seriously, you totally underestaimte the investments on the power side. You will need to add 050% to 100% to your power costs to recover them in a sensible timeframe, and dit yourself wont work the moment you hit higher power densities Wink
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July 28, 2011, 07:27:41 PM
 #9

I think you underestimate the cost.

* Forget the cooling installed. Unless you area toy operation, it WILL NOT BE ENOUGH. We plan a rack to have 64 ampere 230vols -2x32. 8 cases with 1-2 computers, every computer 2x1250 watt. No normal warehouse will hav ecooling you dont overload the moment you get sizable. And forget AC - what you need is not AC, but blowout fans, Take the hot air, get rid of it. A LOT more efficient than AC.
* The installation will cost. YOu need more on power and ain cost to get back the installation. Just an idea - WE (my data center) has to pull acable 25 meters for main power. Problem is - the main power of the building is not where I want to waste the space for a distribution, and the small side room that is good for it... needs some meters. THe bad: ONE METER (!) cable is about 100 UD. We tlak of 5 wires of 120 suqare milimeter EACH , qualified for 500 ampere power per phase, 3 phases. THis is a lot of money you need to put in.
* Racks cost moeny too, and the power distribution costs too. I am not sure why you guys all here talk of 20A fuses - I have a problem with 2x32A being "a little low" for a half-rack (i.e. 8 computers). Possiblybecause I plan loaing 6 cards into one computer Wink

Just to give you an idea . 6 racks are 128 ampere per phase, posibly use around 90. Going lower densigty may make sense - hardly a building is prepared to handle that power density. And you and me are too small to do anything usefull with the heat. Sadly. Could be a niceheating for a sauna Wink

* Remember redundant internet lines, remember UPS for local management (not miners).
* Security. YOu wll have a lot of value there. Not small stuff. So, sorry, acces cards and low crime rate will NOT cut it.
* What about people on site? ;)Not exactly cheap to have skilled people there in the middle of the night Wink

But seriously, you totally underestaimte the investments on the power side. You will need to add 050% to 100% to your power costs to recover them in a sensible timeframe, and dit yourself wont work the moment you hit higher power densities Wink

I've already added up the extra powercosts. The 6 cents per kWh is almost DOUBLE the price I'd pay.

Also, all those fees were right there on the electric companies website. As long as I'm not drawing 50 kWh at once, I'm good.
The industrial sized AC is for cold air to be coming in, obviously, I'll have huge blowout fans. You are under-estimating me.

Size isn't really a problem -- the warehouse will have a very very low density for computer rigs. Very low.

Initial investment will be made back after 2 months I figured. It's about the same thing as mining.

By the way, average police time to respond would be less than 5 minutes. Normally a cop would be sitting down the street at a gas station, (literally a mile away). Also, I don't need to be on site 24/7. I'm about 5 minutes away as well.

Internet lines will need redundancies. I don't see the need for a UPS. The only need for a UPS will be for the security back-end of the network.

Thanks for the info, I do appreciate it. I will take all your information into consideration, and re-look at my plan some more Smiley

~bluefirecorp

EDIT: In my town -- if something happens (like a break-in), the response time of the police is a lot faster than most places, just because the fact NOTHING else happens. Sure, they are out patrolling for basic traffic violations, and there may be a domestic dispute somewhere, but other than that, the other 15 or so cops are just cruising around. (Yes, there's only 20 cops in my entire town >.>)

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July 28, 2011, 07:50:52 PM
 #10

As long as I'm not drawing 50 kWh at once, I'm good.

Ah - you plan to have no servers?

Seriously. 1 half rack of my machines draws 12kw. 50kw at once is not even a notch in my space. This is about 32 machines. Not a center - more a wasteland.

Plan for more. We start with 345kw installation, contract guarantees us avilability of 500kw. 50kw is a HOUSEHOLD installation.
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July 28, 2011, 08:37:50 PM
 #11

Quote
YOU WILL NOT GET REMOTE ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINES!
So you are going to fix my machine when it breaks? Or I will need to drive to the undisclosed location? Or you will ship it back to me for repair and then I ship back?

Also, you haven't mentioned anything about fire suppression.  Would suck for one poorly built system to literally burn up all the others...

Insurance... Are you insuring my machines will be safe in your facility?  You could end up being on the hook for 10's or even 100's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.


I think you have a good idea, but you will need a large amount of capital and a sound plan to get this going.

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July 28, 2011, 09:11:17 PM
 #12

As long as I'm not drawing 50 kWh at once, I'm good.

Ah - you plan to have no servers?

Seriously. 1 half rack of my machines draws 12kw. 50kw at once is not even a notch in my space. This is about 32 machines. Not a center - more a wasteland.

Plan for more. We start with 345kw installation, contract guarantees us avilability of 500kw. 50kw is a HOUSEHOLD installation.
50kWh being used isn't household. House hold is closer to 5 kWh being used at once. And 50 kWh was a starting point. I don't want my initial investment to have more than that draw on the town's power supply. I can obviously get more power if need be.

Quote
YOU WILL NOT GET REMOTE ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINES!
So you are going to fix my machine when it breaks? Or I will need to drive to the undisclosed location? Or you will ship it back to me for repair and then I ship back?

Also, you haven't mentioned anything about fire suppression.  Would suck for one poorly built system to literally burn up all the others...

Insurance... Are you insuring my machines will be safe in your facility?  You could end up being on the hook for 10's or even 100's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.


I think you have a good idea, but you will need a large amount of capital and a sound plan to get this going.


It's up to you. I can do a diagnosis to figure out what is wrong and order new parts, I can ship it back to you for repair, or if you can figure out another solution, we can do that.
Because the machines are separated, if one machine did manage to catch fire, then it'd actually just burn it's self out. Obviously proper fire exhaustion techniques would be used in the case of a fire.

The entire place WILL be insured, however the data will not be (who can put the price on a family photo ?). So please, when you do send your machines, back up anything you want to keep as a keep sake. Honestly, you shouldn't have any data that is valuable to you.

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July 28, 2011, 09:23:41 PM
 #13

I'm sorry for being ageist but there is no way in hell I would take an 18 year old kid serious enough to house my rigs.
When I was 19 I tried multiple times to setup my own business with rented facilities and every landlord laughed me out of the door because of my age.
Wait until you are in your mid twenties before anyone will take you seriously.

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July 28, 2011, 10:35:40 PM
 #14

I'm sorry for being ageist but there is no way in hell I would take an 18 year old kid serious enough to house my rigs.
When I was 19 I tried multiple times to setup my own business with rented facilities and every landlord laughed me out of the door because of my age.
Wait until you are in your mid twenties before anyone will take you seriously.
Age means nothing. I'm a lot more responsible than kids my age.

I've been living on my own for the last 6 months. No help from family or friends (money wise). I do currently run a small home business which provides support for the bills.

MiningBuddy, let me ask you this -- if you could have leased these places, would you have actually been able to do what you wanted with them? Or were they un-realistic dreams?

~bluefirecorp

EDIT: Also another neat little thing. I have 0 debt. None. I always pay my bills on time and even have savings incase I can't make the bills on time.

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July 29, 2011, 05:45:37 AM
 #15

50kWh being used isn't household. House hold is closer to 5 kWh being used at once. And 50 kWh was a starting point. I don't want my initial investment to have more than that draw on the town's power supply. I can obviously get more power if need be.
keep as a keep sake. Honestly, you shouldn't have any data that is valuable to you.

Bullshit. Seriously.

I ngermany every appartement is wired for 65kw.

5kw is household? Maybe people in the US are too poor to run a modern household.

Here is something for you: 5kw does NOT COVER AN ELECTRICAL OVEN. And I dont mean a hugh one.

The circuit for an oven alone is 40 amperes at 230 volt to be safe - some are quite big. 6500 Watt around is normal (more than your 5kw). Add to that a large fridge, freezer, a running wasching machine and a running drier and you are over it. If you then add an electric water heater for a post installed shower.... though that is not the norm.

Many households regularly break the 12kw barrier - not for long times, but it is possible. 5kw is a third world level - even in former soviet countries 12kw is standard and people here know it sucks (I live in one).
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July 29, 2011, 06:56:42 AM
 #16

Where to start?

Quote from: bluefirecorp
Age means nothing. I'm a lot more responsible than kids my age.

Spoken like an 18 year old. The reason you think age means nothing is because you don't have the perspective that comes with it. You are a kid, just like the kids your age (as you refer to them). The difference might be that you don't see that. A man's biggest weakness is the inability to see his own weakness. You'll learn that with age.

Quote from: bluefirecorp
I've been living on my own for the last 6 months. No help from family or friends (money wise). I do currently run a small home business which provides support for the bills.

Care to share your Schedule C or Form 1120? If people are going to put assets in your hands we'd like to see that you are a responsible business person and able to perform. Also, I'd hate to have any type of tax liens ending up on my assets because they weren't properly accounted for and you forgot to pay a quarterly. You have a tax accountant right? Which law firm reviews your contracts, while we're at it?

Quote from: bluefirecorp
EDIT: Also another neat little thing. I have 0 debt. None. I always pay my bills on time and even have savings incase I can't make the bills on time.

So, you are just now old enough to secure your own credit and you haven't yet gotten into debt. This is a little like a 15 year old saying they've never got a speeding ticket. Do you plan to self-finance this whole operation? Or will you be seeking investors or debt-financing? Do you have operating capital to ensure my asset doesn't end up locked in your landlord's property? Will you be operating as an LLC, C-Corp, S-Corp, Sole Prop? What do you have of value that I can sue you for in the event that you lose or damage my asset or impact my revenue? What are the details of your E&O coverage? General liability? What insurance company has agreed to insure you or your business? At 18 you can't assume that you will just call up and get coverage... at least not at a rate you can afford.

Quote from: bluefirecorp
The connection to the Internet will probably be on a business line from Time Warner (15 megabit down, 2 megabit up), plenty of space to mine with.

What kind of SLA do you have with Time Warner? What kind of SLA will you offer your customers? 3 9's? Are you confident that Time Warner will provide you less than 8.76 hours of downtime per YEAR on a "business" line? Do you have savings to cover an SLA payout for, let's say, 12 hours?

Look, I'm being a hard-ass on you for a reason. You seem like a bright kid, and you probably have a bright future. But you will have to do some legwork before people are going to entrust you with thousands of dollars worth of hardware, let alone enter a contract with you. You are judgement proof, kid. Nobody wants to be in a contract without deep pockets somewhere to be tapped to cover loss or damage. All good business decisions come down to calculated risks. Calculating the risk of doing business with you results in #DIV/0!

Word of advice: You are 18, enjoy being 18. Growing up in small town, nothing-ever-happens-here Ohio myself I can tell you that your perspective and comprehension is limited. That's not bad, it's just being 18 in small town Ohio. But you are 18 in small town Ohio... enjoy the last bits of being a kid. You can be a grown-up business magnate for the rest of your life and have your perfect .5 acre in suburbia but you don't get to be 18, debt-free and untied for very long. Take that savings you have and get on a plane or boat and visit a few foreign countries. Or drive cross country and see lots of sights before you get pigeon holed into 2 weeks of vacation per year. Don't spend these years worrying about keeping other people's computer's running. They'll be here when you get back and for the rest of your life.


finally: typos
...with more advanced fields and options for those tech compent users... (see it?)
... if you could of leased these places, would you of actually been... (ok, pet peeve so I'll just tell you - it's "could have" and "would have")

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bluefirecorp
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July 29, 2011, 07:27:15 AM
 #17

50kWh being used isn't household. House hold is closer to 5 kWh being used at once. And 50 kWh was a starting point. I don't want my initial investment to have more than that draw on the town's power supply. I can obviously get more power if need be.
keep as a keep sake. Honestly, you shouldn't have any data that is valuable to you.

Bullshit. Seriously.

I ngermany every appartement is wired for 65kw.

5kw is household? Maybe people in the US are too poor to run a modern household.

Here is something for you: 5kw does NOT COVER AN ELECTRICAL OVEN. And I dont mean a hugh one.

The circuit for an oven alone is 40 amperes at 230 volt to be safe - some are quite big. 6500 Watt around is normal (more than your 5kw). Add to that a large fridge, freezer, a running wasching machine and a running drier and you are over it. If you then add an electric water heater for a post installed shower.... though that is not the norm.

Many households regularly break the 12kw barrier - not for long times, but it is possible. 5kw is a third world level - even in former soviet countries 12kw is standard and people here know it sucks (I live in one).

Have you ever had your oven, fridge, freezer, washing machine and drier all running at once for 24 hours a day? 7 days a week?
By fridge and freeze, they're open the entire time (actually drawing power then?).
I doubt it.

Average usage (kWh/daily) is less than 50 for MOST houses, in a DAY.
That's an average of less than 2 kWh.

Before you call bullshit, you should actually read what I say. Let me restate it for you: On average, an American household does NOT use more than 5 kWh per hour for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

~bluefirecorp


------------------

Spoken like an 18 year old. The reason you think age means nothing is because you don't have the perspective that comes with it. You are a kid, just like the kids your age (as you refer to them). The difference might be that you don't see that. A man's biggest weakness is the inability to see his own weakness. You'll learn that with age.
I know my age is a weakness at least for me. I've overcame it many many times in the past, and plan to in the future. A lot of people don't put trust into an 18 year old.

Care to share your Schedule C or Form 1120? If people are going to put assets in your hands we'd like to see that you are a responsible business person and able to perform. Also, I'd hate to have any type of tax liens ending up on my assets because they weren't properly accounted for and you forgot to pay a quarterly. You have a tax accountant right? Which law firm reviews your contracts, while we're at it?
I do have a lawyer who helps me file taxes. I've done this because of the complicated legal matter with owning a business.
So, you are just now old enough to secure your own credit and you haven't yet gotten into debt. This is a little like a 15 year old saying they've never got a speeding ticket. Do you plan to self-finance this whole operation? Or will you be seeking investors or debt-financing? Do you have operating capital to ensure my asset doesn't end up locked in your landlord's property? Will you be operating as an LLC, C-Corp, S-Corp, Sole Prop? What do you have of value that I can sue you for in the event that you lose or damage my asset or impact my revenue? What are the details of your E&O coverage? General liability? What insurance company has agreed to insure you or your business? At 18 you can't assume that you will just call up and get coverage... at least not at a rate you can afford.
A lot of it will be my own finances. If it fails, and goes under, I lose a bit of my savings and move on in life with a bit more experience. If it succeeds, I have a job that I'd actually enjoy. My goal in life is to work for myself, never have to work for another. Obviously, that's not true in retrospect, because I'd be working for the customer -- like all businesses.
The company will be filed as a LLC. Legally, I see this being the best option for me.
What kind of SLA do you have with Time Warner? What kind of SLA will you offer your customers? 3 9's? Are you confident that Time Warner will provide you less than 8.76 hours of downtime per YEAR on a "business" line? Do you have savings to cover an SLA payout for, let's say, 12 hours?
This is identical to my SLA, however it isn't mine. As this other user's contains personal data, my contains person data as well.
Code:
http://sire.cityoftemecula.org/sirepub/cache/2/t22y5c55rpzigb550ruhsbzq/97442807292011120805904.PDF
Page 7 is the starting of the general SLA time warner uses.
Look, I'm being a hard-ass on you for a reason. You seem like a bright kid, and you probably have a bright future. But you will have to do some legwork before people are going to entrust you with thousands of dollars worth of hardware, let alone enter a contract with you. You are judgement proof, kid. Nobody wants to be in a contract without deep pockets somewhere to be tapped to cover loss or damage. All good business decisions come down to calculated risks. Calculating the risk of doing business with you results in #DIV/0!
It's fine that you are being a hard-ass. I much rather figure out the details now when someone is grilling me with them rather than miss something later down the line and pay dearly for it.
This thread was to test the waters -- to see if there'd be enough people interested for me to even consider diving into the this world.
Word of advice: You are 18, enjoy being 18. Growing up in small town, nothing-ever-happens-here Ohio myself I can tell you that your perspective and comprehension is limited. That's not bad, it's just being 18 in small town Ohio. But you are 18 in small town Ohio... enjoy the last bits of being a kid. You can be a grown-up business magnate for the rest of your life and have your perfect .5 acre in suburbia but you don't get to be 18, debt-free and untied for very long. Take that savings you have and get on a plane or boat and visit a few foreign countries. Or drive cross country and see lots of sights before you get pigeon holed into 2 weeks of vacation per year. Don't spend these years worrying about keeping other people's computer's running. They'll be here when you get back and for the rest of your life.
Thanks for the advice. You are a bit mistaken though. I'm not doing this because there is nothing else to do. I'm doing it because it makes sense to me. I love working with computers, networks especially. I do have problems with authority (I have no criminal record however); one of the reasons I don't see me getting an average Joe job. So far, I've been living on freelance work, and have been living pretty well.
I've also always liked the idea of having my own business. If the company proves to be profitable, I can always hire someone under me. (Obviously, with proper forms -- such registering with the Bureau of Workers' Compensation).



finally: typos
...with more advanced fields and options for those tech compent users... (see it?)
... if you could of leased these places, would you of actually been... (ok, pet peeve so I'll just tell you - it's "could have" and "would have")


Competent.
And the second, it's a habit I've been trying to break for a while now.

Thanks again for pointing out what I missed in explaining as well as the pointers you have given me.

~bluefirecorp

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NetTecture
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July 29, 2011, 08:29:55 AM
 #18

Have you ever had your oven, fridge, freezer, washing machine and drier all running at once for 24 hours a day? 7 days a week?
By fridge and freeze, they're open the entire time (actually drawing power then?).
I doubt it.

Idiot. No, not 24/7, but at the same time. So the fuses in the houe are not prepred to you schedule your cooking - but to have all that stuff running AT THE SAME TIME.

Come home, put in laundry, second laundry runs, first is in the drier, I am cooking for a party and hey, guess what - the fridge starts right at that moment. On top some lights (easily 1kw preparing a party), TV, Music - add another kw. Fuses dont care about average use, they are prepared for maximum usage. It is not sooo rare for a house old to use more than 10kw. Well, obviously it is somewhere where hillbillies live Wink

Smart home is not there, so that the fridge says "ok, I wait until there is room for me in the electricval budget". COok, open it 2-3 times, it starts - right in the power peak Wink

Now, rigs iwll run 24/7 and if your operation is not a kids joke (which it seems to be) you WILL have a problem cooling. "Industrial AC" does not exist. What exists is an AC made for a SPECIFIC HEAT PROFILE, and unless your industrial building had deep shock freeze machines added that took stuff from an oven straight, it has NOT been sized to handle the 200kw+ watt continous power that you will draw. And you will HAVE to draw that, because otherwise you wont make money - I doubt 10 computers pay your rent there and a decent profit. They dont for my operation, I need at least 40 computers running. Hm, 40 computers at 1.5 kw = 60kw Wink OUCH. Already quite a lot to handle. Add another.... 15kw for cooling on hot days with AC. 75kw power draw Wink

No, sorry, normal air conditioning wont work. Heck, most DATA CENTERS wont work - very frew are prepared for 10kw / rack densities from a cooling point of view. Some new ones are, but then this is expensive.

Now, you saiy you added 100% to your electical costs and that would be 3 cents then. 3 cents at 60kw are... 1314,9 USD per month. Not bad, BUT: you have to pay power for cooling (15kw) which puts you to 986,175 USD, you have to pay the power and cabling and the financing of the investment and all the time - VERY narrow calculation Wink

Space will NOT help. This is a LOT of heat. Obviously you are too young to learn, but learning you will... the moment you overload the AC.
bluefirecorp
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July 29, 2011, 09:01:15 AM
 #19

Have you ever had your oven, fridge, freezer, washing machine and drier all running at once for 24 hours a day? 7 days a week?
By fridge and freeze, they're open the entire time (actually drawing power then?).
I doubt it.

Idiot. No, not 24/7, but at the same time. So the fuses in the houe are not prepred to you schedule your cooking - but to have all that stuff running AT THE SAME TIME.

Come home, put in laundry, second laundry runs, first is in the drier, I am cooking for a party and hey, guess what - the fridge starts right at that moment. On top some lights (easily 1kw preparing a party), TV, Music - add another kw. Fuses dont care about average use, they are prepared for maximum usage. It is not sooo rare for a house old to use more than 10kw. Well, obviously it is somewhere where hillbillies live Wink

Smart home is not there, so that the fridge says "ok, I wait until there is room for me in the electricval budget". COok, open it 2-3 times, it starts - right in the power peak Wink

Now, rigs iwll run 24/7 and if your operation is not a kids joke (which it seems to be) you WILL have a problem cooling. "Industrial AC" does not exist. What exists is an AC made for a SPECIFIC HEAT PROFILE, and unless your industrial building had deep shock freeze machines added that took stuff from an oven straight, it has NOT been sized to handle the 200kw+ watt continous power that you will draw. And you will HAVE to draw that, because otherwise you wont make money - I doubt 10 computers pay your rent there and a decent profit. They dont for my operation, I need at least 40 computers running. Hm, 40 computers at 1.5 kw = 60kw Wink OUCH. Already quite a lot to handle. Add another.... 15kw for cooling on hot days with AC. 75kw power draw Wink

No, sorry, normal air conditioning wont work. Heck, most DATA CENTERS wont work - very frew are prepared for 10kw / rack densities from a cooling point of view. Some new ones are, but then this is expensive.

Now, you saiy you added 100% to your electical costs and that would be 3 cents then. 3 cents at 60kw are... 1314,9 USD per month. Not bad, BUT: you have to pay power for cooling (15kw) which puts you to 986,175 USD, you have to pay the power and cabling and the financing of the investment and all the time - VERY narrow calculation Wink

Space will NOT help. This is a LOT of heat. Obviously you are too young to learn, but learning you will... the moment you overload the AC.

Let's agree to disagree on the power usage then.

~bluefirecorp

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NetTecture
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July 29, 2011, 09:15:17 AM
 #20

Yes. Do it Wink Once oyurealize how much they draw you may realize reality does not care about your mathematics. It only cares about numbers.

If you get 100 computers, you have 100 times the power usage of one. You agreeing to disagree on that makes you not a smart person  and does not change that.
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