BEWARE of FAKE CASASCIUS COINS

[OgNasty]

I think if someone was going to try and scam a loaded one, they would be buying up peeled coins and using those.

They can probably have 1,000 fakes made with holograms cheaper than buying a peeled one.

[1714959806]

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[1714959806]

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[1714959806]

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[Mobius]

As a Casascius coin collector, I appreciate that you brought this to the communities attention. Thank you!

[gentlemand]

It quite clearly is not the same as an original, but a bit of rubbing might sort that out. I've said it before, but it's only a matter of time before the truly indistinguishable fakes arrive. Look at the amount of work that goes into fake Bose headphones for a return of $10-100. Much less effort with one of these could net you $10,000 a time before the market craters completely.

I can well imagine it being borderline impossible to sell any of them in future without some documented history, and even then many won't be inclined to take the chance.

[naypalm]

Thank you for posting this. I've added a link to this post on the top of the casascius analyzer.

[krogothmanhattan]

Thank you for posting this. I've added a link to this post on the top of the casascius analyzer.

Good thinking Naypalm! The world needs to know. Let us all stay vigilante on any others!

[krogothmanhattan]

It quite clearly is not the same as an original, but a bit of rubbing might sort that out. I've said it before, but it's only a matter of time before the truly indistinguishable fakes arrive. Look at the amount of work that goes into fake Bose headphones for a return of $10-100. Much less effort with one of these could net you $10,000 a time before the market craters completely.

I can well imagine it being borderline impossible to sell any of them in future without some documented history, and even then many won't be inclined to take the chance.

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
   
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

[gentlemand]

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
  
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

I've got one that never attempted to pass itself off as a real one. It's pretty similar to that one pictured. In both cases their castings are much more sharply delineated than the real thing.

It's not too huge a leap for a forger to do something to address that and then it's going to be tricky.

[krogothmanhattan]

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
  
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

I've got one that never attempted to pass itself off as a real one. It's pretty similar to that one pictured. In both cases their castings are much more sharply delineated than the real thing.

It's not too huge a leap for a forger to do something to address that and then it's going to be tricky.

Yes its just a matter of time before they nail this. Same goes for loaded cas coins with holo. Provenance and proof is going to be key in the event these things do happen when it will be impossible to distinguish the genuine from the fake coin.

[krogothmanhattan]

And from Mike Caldwells wordpress info....

 i was sent the following photo of some hologram labels bearing the Casascius name. These labels are counterfeit and unauthorized. They appear to mimic the spelling error from the Series 1 coins. They use a different type face for the main Casascius as well as a slightly different B-logo shape. My series 1 coins also use a dot-matrix-style printing with fixed-width characters, rather than the solid characters in a proportional font that appear in this photo. Please beware!




     https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/possible-counterfeits-to-be-aware-of/

[ChiBitCTy]

And from Mike Caldwells wordpress info....

 i was sent the following photo of some hologram labels bearing the Casascius name. These labels are counterfeit and unauthorized. They appear to mimic the spelling error from the Series 1 coins. They use a different type face for the main Casascius as well as a slightly different B-logo shape. My series 1 coins also use a dot-matrix-style printing with fixed-width characters, rather than the solid characters in a proportional font that appear in this photo. Please beware!




     https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/possible-counterfeits-to-be-aware-of/

Couple scrolls down on reddit after searching for Casascius.  Surprised no one had seen this after 4 years.

[gentlemand]

Couple scrolls down on reddit after searching for Casascius.  Surprised no one had seen this after 4 years.

They're well known but rarely mentioned. That's primarily because they're utterly shit so don't need any consideration in this matter. I wonder whether the makers of those holograms ever looked at a real one.

[ChiBitCTy]

Couple scrolls down on reddit after searching for Casascius.  Surprised no one had seen this after 4 years.

They're well known but rarely mentioned. That's primarily because they're utterly shit so don't need any consideration in this matter. I wonder whether the makers of those holograms ever looked at a real one.

Completely forgot about these.  In the encyclopedia too.

[gentlemand]

Oh... and I have another fake one from same seller on ebay....  can't find listing at the moment
If I dig it out later, I will post a pic of the one I have

Is that any type of fake? It's more of a 'tribute' as anyone who's anyone knows there's no such thing as a gold plated one. It is sort of using the 2011 design but it's also listing itself as new and doesn't have Casascius anywhere in the title or description.

There's tons of them for a couple of dollars so I guess this guy is chancing it but you probably wouldn't be able to claim you were conned.

[krogothmanhattan]

Oh... and I have another fake one from same seller on ebay....  can't find listing at the moment
If I dig it out later, I will post a pic of the one I have

Is that any type of fake? It's more of a 'tribute' as anyone who's anyone knows there's no such thing as a gold plated one. It is sort of using the 2011 design but it's also listing itself as new and doesn't have Casascius anywhere in the title or description.

There's tons of them for a couple of dollars so I guess this guy is chancing it but you probably wouldn't be able to claim you were conned.

Even though this time he is not saying it is a Casascius 2011 physical coin he is implying it was made in 2011. That in itself is misleading too.

And it is the same seller of the other coin that was a good forgery

[Lincoln6Echo]

Oh... and I have another fake one from same seller on ebay....  can't find listing at the moment
If I dig it out later, I will post a pic of the one I have

Is that any type of fake? It's more of a 'tribute' as anyone who's anyone knows there's no such thing as a gold plated one. It is sort of using the 2011 design but it's also listing itself as new and doesn't have Casascius anywhere in the title or description.

There's tons of them for a couple of dollars so I guess this guy is chancing it but you probably wouldn't be able to claim you were conned.

Yes.... a FAKE not a tribute.
These were made with the pure intention to be sold a "Casascius" coins.
The seller knows that and does not list in title, also, if they did this, they know ebay would pull the listing and make the post a classified-ad
The seller even contacted me wanting to buy holograms so they could sell FAKE coins

And "anyone who's anyone" are the people around here....
The average bitcoiner heard the name or seen the mass media pictures of these coin, but never seen a live one.

Having starting to attend conferences on this topic, I could guarantee I could sell a bunch of these with the average-joe not being the wiser....

Stay informed kids, the waters are getting choppy!!!

Yeah I think even the average bitcoiner can't decide between those fake ones and a real Cas coin. The average Joe who buys stuff on ebay has no chance...
Hope this doesn't hurt the reputation of Cas Coins too much...

[Lesbian Cow]

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
  
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

I've got one that never attempted to pass itself off as a real one. It's pretty similar to that one pictured. In both cases their castings are much more sharply delineated than the real thing.

It's not too huge a leap for a forger to do something to address that and then it's going to be tricky.

Yes its just a matter of time before they nail this. Same goes for loaded cas coins with holo. Provenance and proof is going to be key in the event these things do happen when it will be impossible to distinguish the genuine from the fake coin.

First off great job with this thread, it is important to have this information out there and there have been many useful posts and discussion.

Regarding the future, I am not too concerned. My reasons for a lack of concern:

1)  The bulk of my physicals are loaded Casascius Silver Singles.  I believe by the time I am ready to sell them btc will be over 100K USD/BTC.

2)  There are many coins which trade in the major auction houses (Stacks & Heritage) for 100k USD plus every week (have a look).  Pretty much zero fakes ever get thru as the money involved is high enough that experts can make 100's of thousands of dollars per year. For this reason you get very intelligent people dedicating their lives to becoming experts at authenticating very smalll subsets.  We will have experts at this when the coins are worth over 100k.  Fakes will be near impossible, as they are today with high value US coins like the 1794 Dollar.  People successfully fake $500 Morgan Dollars today and sell them on ebay, but no one gets away with faking a coin worth 100k.

In summary, it is very rare a coin worth over 100k USD is successfully counterfeited and sold thru any major auction house and in 5-20 years Casascius 1.0 btc will be worth over 100k USD imo.  The downfall is, the buyer's will pay a 20% premium to the auction houses.

[Fattcatt]

Capital Gains too...don't forget that 

[krogothmanhattan]

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
  
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

I've got one that never attempted to pass itself off as a real one. It's pretty similar to that one pictured. In both cases their castings are much more sharply delineated than the real thing.

It's not too huge a leap for a forger to do something to address that and then it's going to be tricky.

Yes its just a matter of time before they nail this. Same goes for loaded cas coins with holo. Provenance and proof is going to be key in the event these things do happen when it will be impossible to distinguish the genuine from the fake coin.

First off great job with this thread, it is important to have this information out there and there have been many useful posts and discussion.

Regarding the future, I am not too concerned. My reasons for a lack of concern:

1)  The bulk of my physicals are loaded Casascius Silver Singles.  I believe by the time I am ready to sell them btc will be over 100K USD/BTC.

2)  There are many coins which trade in the major auction houses (Stacks & Heritage) for 100k USD plus every week (have a look).  Pretty much zero fakes ever get thru as the money involved is high enough that experts can make 100's of thousands of dollars per year. For this reason you get very intelligent people dedicating their lives to becoming experts at authenticating very smalll subsets.  We will have experts at this when the coins are worth over 100k.  Fakes will be near impossible, as they are today with high value US coins like the 1794 Dollar.  People successfully fake $500 Morgan Dollars today and sell them on ebay, but no one gets away with faking a coin worth 100k.

In summary, it is very rare a coin worth over 100k USD is successfully counterfeited and sold thru any major auction house and in 5-20 years Casascius 1.0 btc will be worth over 100k USD imo.  The downfall is, the buyer's will pay a 20% premium to the auction houses.

Lez thanks for the compliment.

As we have not yet reached the major auction houses, we are the experts on these coins and thus must remain vigilant to protect ourselves and other people that are coming into this area of collecting.

This thread can be a posting board for any future discoveries which I am sure will arise.

Prior to my introduction into physical crypto collecting, I collected stamps.

Any high end stamps were always sent to an expertization service. An example was the Philatelic foundation.

The expertization  certificate covered the defects, faults and if the stamp is genuine or not.

This is something we lack in our hobby. We need a coin not only to be graded but authenticated as well.

From what I read in previous posts, ANACS graded a SOL NOCTIS that was a China fake.

This from what I understand this can happen with any Physical Bitcoin at a  coin grading service? In other words they will give it a grade on condition but not on authenticity?

[gentlemand]

This from what I understand this can happen with any Physical Bitcoin at a  coin grading service? In other words they will give it a grade on condition but not on authenticity?

I'd never bother with a grader myself, but I would presume their job is purely to cast a judgement on the condition of the lump of metal placed in front of them and no more. They can't be the arbiter of everything as there must be plenty of coins they have no knowledge of.

If something's valuable it's down to the buyer and seller to verify it.

[krogothmanhattan]

This from what I understand this can happen with any Physical Bitcoin at a  coin grading service? In other words they will give it a grade on condition but not on authenticity?

I'd never bother with a grader myself, but I would presume their job is purely to cast a judgement on the condition of the lump of metal placed in front of them and no more. They can't be the arbiter of everything as there must be plenty of coins they have no knowledge of.

If something's valuable it's down to the buyer and seller to verify it.

Yes at the moment that is all we have. But that's why we NEED a company to authenticate our coins.

Its not IF it will happen but WHEN.