TradeHill - We now support deposits and withdrawals of funds via Paxum.

[PaxumChris]

Hey PaxumChris,
   If I deposit today in my account, in the US, how long should I expect to wait before it's credited in my Paxum account?

roughly 7 business day +/- a day

[1713959743]

1713959743

[PaxumChris]

Forget Paxum!  When will you accept Epassport?

Oh Lordy - i cant escape that here either 

[JoelKatz]

Regarding reversals - here is the exert from our terms of service regarding this.

(e) User acknowledges and accepts that in case of any Transaction disputes, Paxum presumes that all Transactions by User are authorized by and are the liability of the User;
(g) User agrees that all Transactions initiated are final and not reversible;
(i) User agrees that any disputes that arise between Users are not the responsibility of Paxum;

That doesn't answer the biggest question (and your full terms don't seem to either): If I receive a payment through Paxum, under what circumstances, if any, will Paxum want me to give them back the money? In other words, what happens to the recipient(s) if the transaction into Paxum is reversed?

If Joe puts $1,500 into Paxum and then sends $1,500 to Jeff, and then Joe reverses the $1,500 payment to Paxum (claiming fraud or whatever), is that considered one of the "disputes that arise between Users" that Paxum takes no responsibility for? Or does Jeff keep the money and the dispute is between Joe and Paxum (since Joe breached rule 'e' above)?

I get that you take greater authentication steps than Dwolla does and that there should therefore be less fraud. But the big question is still -- ultimately, if there is fraud or alleged fraud (and no wrongdoing on the part of the recipient), who eats the cost?

[PaxumChris]

Regarding reversals - here is the exert from our terms of service regarding this.

(e) User acknowledges and accepts that in case of any Transaction disputes, Paxum presumes that all Transactions by User are authorized by and are the liability of the User;
(g) User agrees that all Transactions initiated are final and not reversible;
(i) User agrees that any disputes that arise between Users are not the responsibility of Paxum;

That doesn't answer the biggest question: If I receive a payment through Paxum, under what circumstances, if any, will Paxum want me to give them back the money? In other words, what happens to the recipient(s) if the transaction into Paxum is reversed?

If Joe puts $1,500 into Paxum and then sends $1,500 to Jeff, and then Joe reverses the $1,500 payment to Paxum (claiming fraud or whatever), is that considered one of the "disputes that arise between Users" that Paxum takes no responsibility for? Or does Jeff keep the money and the dispute is between Joe and Paxum (since Joe breached rule 'e' above)?

I get that you take greater authentication steps than Dwolla does and that there should therefore be less fraud. But the big question is still -- ultimately, if there is fraud or alleged fraud, who eats the cost?

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

The steps to get approved for ACH and then to request and ACH provides enough paper trail/proof that the account owner authorized the ACH so a charge back is VERY unlikely to take place and if it does it will more than likely get denied.

When we first had ACH we felt the same fraud that most do with ACH but we quickly worked to put steps in place to limit fraud attempts


Joe Blow will not be able to sign up for an account photoshop an ID and request and ACH. It just wont happen :-) If we feel their is ANYTHING fishy going on I'll request you take a picture holding your ID smiling pretty for me We are that serious about fraud protection.


Hope that clears it up sum

[JoelKatz]

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

Awesome. So it sounds like TradeHill has nothing to worry about. But if anyone else is thinking "cool, a system where I can get payments with no chargebacks so my scam is good to go", they're going to get an unpleasant surprise.

[PaxumChris]

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

Awesome. So it sounds like TradeHill has nothing to worry about. But if anyone else is thinking "cool, a system where I can get payments with no chargebacks so my scam is good to go", they're going to get an unpleasant surprise.

Scammers tend to target systems that have weak verification systems. We offer a prepaid mastercard to our account holders therefore we have pretty strict policy we have to follow

[Newton]

Hi Chris,

I don't find anything on your site about Canadian deposits.  Can you accept any type of fund transfer from Canadian banks other than a bank wire (which might as well go directly to the exchange)?

[trentzb]

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

Just to clarify with the spelling corrected, is your statement:

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat out blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

And does this actually mean that once funds are sent to Jack there is no way possible that those funds will be taken back from Jack ever, period, end of story, regardless of fraud on the sender side? With the exception of course if Jack was part of a/the fraud.

I just want to be clear on this because I sense many folks believed this to be the case with Dwolla and obviously were quite surprised when it was not.

It does make sense to me that this is indeed possible to guarantee with additional tx charges and extreme verification methods.

+1 to Paxum if this is their position.

[PaxumChris]

Hi Chris,

I don't find anything on your site about Canadian deposits.  Can you accept any type of fund transfer from Canadian banks other than a bank wire (which might as well go directly to the exchange)?

The loading types we offer are ACH , Wire , Check & Money Order currently. By default all ACH and Wire funds are sent to our Belize bank so you do not send to a canadian bank.

Also you can NOT wire/ach money directly to another account holder. The money must be sent to your verified account from the banking information matching your account

Chris

[PaxumChris]

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

Just to clarify with the spelling corrected, is your statement:

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat out blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

And does this actually mean that once funds are sent to Jack there is no way possible that those funds will be taken back from Jack ever, period, end of story, regardless of fraud on the sender side? With the exception of course if Jack was part of a/the fraud.

I just want to be clear on this because I sense many folks believed this to be the case with Dwolla and obviously were quite surprised when it was not.

It does make sense to me that this is indeed possible to guarantee with additional tx charges and extreme verification methods.

+1 to Paxum if this is their position.

Yes that is our stance. If we are screwed over by someone we do not go after an innocent party.

[tvbcof]

The ONLY time we will take funds from your account that you received from someone is if it is flat our blatant fraud on your end. If the user who sent you money is able to do an chargeback on the ACH they sent us that is on us.

The steps to get approved for ACH and then to request and ACH provides enough paper trail/proof that the account owner authorized the ACH so a charge back is VERY unlikely to take place and if it does it will more than likely get denied.

When we first had ACH we felt the same fraud that most do with ACH but we quickly worked to put steps in place to limit fraud attempts

Joe Blow will not be able to sign up for an account photoshop an ID and request and ACH. It just wont happen :-) If we feel their is ANYTHING fishy going on I'll request you take a picture holding your ID smiling pretty for me We are that serious about fraud protection.

Hope that clears it up sum

Sounds like you guys have the ACH thing (which I heard of for the first time several days ago) figured out somehow.   But also that you know something about the business.  So, a quick question:

Could one:

 1) limit ACH transfers in to, say, $1000

 2) specify a charge for an ACH reversal fee of $1000 or less at your digression?

That seems like it would be a pretty bullet-proof way to avoid this type of fraud and also allow legitimate reversals if there are not pesky banking regulations which would interfere with the strategy (and I suspect that there are.)

The cool thing would of course be that people who were not doing reversals would be un-impacted and not (necessarily) forced cover the risk as there should be none.

[PaxumChris]

Sounds like you guys have the ACH thing (which I heard of for the first time several days ago) figured out somehow.   But also that you know something about the business.  So, a quick question:

Could one:

 1) limit ACH transfers in to, say, $1000

 2) specify a charge for an ACH reversal fee of $1000 or less at your digression?

That seems like it would be a pretty bullet-proof way to avoid this type of fraud and also allow legitimate reversals if there are not pesky banking regulations which would interfere with the strategy (and I suspect that there are.)

The cool thing would of course be that people who were not doing reversals would be un-impacted and not (necessarily) forced cover the risk as there should be none.

I'm sure we could do something like that on our end but currently we do not see the need as to our current steps have pretty much stopped alot of the fraud

Chris

[makomk]

They've confirmed with us that they have better fraud protection methods in place and this won't be a problem. If they are defrauded they won't pass it on to TradeHill.

Of course Dwolla told us this as well but Paxum has been in business a lot longer, done a lot more volume and faced a lot more fraud in the past and remained strong.

From what I can tell they've been in business about 3 months longer than Dwolla - Dwolla launched December 1st 2010 and I can't find any reference to Paxum older than September 2010 (their Alexa stats seem to pretty much confirm this). The company registration and website registration date to 2007 but they haven't been doing anything during that time that I can spot.

[PaxumChris]

They've confirmed with us that they have better fraud protection methods in place and this won't be a problem. If they are defrauded they won't pass it on to TradeHill.

Of course Dwolla told us this as well but Paxum has been in business a lot longer, done a lot more volume and faced a lot more fraud in the past and remained strong.

From what I can tell they've been in business about 3 months longer than Dwolla - Dwolla launched December 1st 2010 and I can't find any reference to Paxum older than September 2010 (their Alexa stats seem to pretty much confirm this). The company registration and website registration date to 2007 but they haven't been doing anything during that time that I can spot.

Paxum Inc was formed in 2007. We became active in 2010. You can not start a company like this over night - within a few weeks - or even months. Paxum was worked on for years going back and forth with banks and mastercard and getting everything correct.

[ErgoOne]

I'm going to give Paxum and Tradehill a shot, even if the transfer time to get money to them is a bit long for a U.S. resident.  Let's see how they do this stuff. :-)

[Mousepotato]

Wrd, everybody on GFY is all up ons Paxums nuts, so I might as well give them a try.

[fornit]

What happened to SEPA? 

I second that!

+1

so, for euro countries the only deposit option is wire transfer to paxum for 50$?
yay, tradehill!

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

What will Paxum do when criminals start using phished bank accounts to ACH funds to Paxum and then onto TradeHill to buy Bitcoin with stolen money? Will Paxum eat the loss or will they start pulling funds out of TradeHill's account as Dwolla did?

They've confirmed with us that they have better fraud protection methods in place and this won't be a problem. If they are defrauded they won't pass it on to TradeHill.

Of course Dwolla told us this as well but Paxum has been in business a lot longer, done a lot more volume and faced a lot more fraud in the past and remained strong.

Am I reading this right? It costs $50 to transfer funds to/from my bank to Paxum?  That's a deal killer.

That's for a wire. ACH is $5

Jered

Hi,

I would also like to highlight that even though we believe Paxum to be a good payment option, we will definitely continue auditing and investigating any anomolies we find. We uncovered the Dwolla fraud and will continue with such diligence.

Thanks,
Adam

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

What happened to SEPA? 

I second that!

Hi Sukrim and Nmat,

We sent an email to our Euro clients outlining the issues encountered with the account we were using.

Sit tight, we have another account locked and loaded and just about ready to go.

Excuse the delay - let us make it up to you with 0.3% trading for a month!

Thanks,
Adam

[nmat]

Hi Sukrim and Nmat,

We sent an email to our Euro clients outlining the issues encountered with the account we were using.

Sit tight, we have another account locked and loaded and just about ready to go.

Excuse the delay - let us make it up to you with 0.3% trading for a month!

Thanks,
Adam

I didn't get the email yet, but thanks a lot! That's really generous Will everyone get this discount, or just the two of us?