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Author Topic: Closest thing to a libertarian utopia  (Read 3004 times)
Hawker
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July 28, 2011, 10:31:49 PM
 #21

A militia is a private defence firm.  Since there is no state, there is no law so all arbitration is done with guns.  Its truly a libertarian utopia.

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myrkul
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July 28, 2011, 10:44:30 PM
 #22

A militia is a private defence firm.  Since there is no state, there is no law so all arbitration is done with guns.  Its truly a libertarian utopia.

This statement alone shows your ignorance in... well, just about everything. Let's shred it to pieces, shall we?

"A militia is a private defence(sic) firm."

No, A militia is a personal army, especially when run by a petty little tyrant warlord.

"Since there is no state, there is no law so all arbitration is done with guns."

Arbitration is not done with guns. Do a little reading.

"truly a libertarian utopia."

Time and again, we say: "We don't want Utopia. We know we can't achieve Utopia. We just want an end to coercion."

To which you inevitably point at Somalia and say, "There is your Utopia", Just because it has no State. Might as well point to the Marianas Trench. No State there, either.

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josell
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July 28, 2011, 11:14:52 PM
 #23

If I live in an anarchist country, shall I go through left road or right road? How would decide it? If there is no law, and I cant do a contract with every person on road, then what shall I do? if we make a law, then that country would not be anarchist.

If we think in anarchist "laws" as colosal contracts, then there would be a democracy by definition, not  anarchism.

If I cant hurt someone else, then there is a law: not hurt anyone else. However, if there is no police or military, who wouod prevent me from hurting someone else?

It seems very contradictory by itself.

If I make a contract to have sex with a children of 5 years, society can think about it like cohesion. However, who determinate what is the age of consent?

Anarchists people prove that, instead of acknowledging their mistakes, they prefer to attribute them to others (society, government).


The system is not perfect, it is rotten, but it have improved a lot through history and it will improve more if we want.

Of course, many personal choices would not be determined by government, but some things have to.

Human nature is about community and laws. Without them, there would not be standars, would not be peace, would not be justice. Would not be civilization.
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July 28, 2011, 11:26:39 PM
 #24

If I live in an anarchist country, shall I go through left road or right road? How would decide it? If there is no law, and I cant do a contract with every person on road, then what shall I do?

If you come in my house, you have to take off your shoes. If you drive on my roads, you have to drive on the right side.

If I cant hurt someone else, then there is a law: not hurt anyone else.

There is no law saying you can't punch me in the face. There is also no law saying that my hired security guards can't punch you back twice as hard.

However, if there is no police or military, who wouod prevent me from hurting someone else?

There are no police in Disney World either. Try to start something there though and you will find yourself surrounded by ducks and mice packing guns.
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July 28, 2011, 11:27:19 PM
 #25

Somalia: an example of an anarchist country. Yes, i know it is the Vatican of the anarchists. It is beautiful.

If you want to fuck your country with anarchism, go to somalia and learn about it.
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July 28, 2011, 11:28:41 PM
 #26

Somalia: an example of an anarchist country.

That damage was done while there was still a government. Fail.
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July 28, 2011, 11:33:47 PM
 #27

There are no police in Disney World either. Try to start something there though and you will find yourself surrounded by ducks and mice packing guns.

I had a nice long post typed, and then I saw this. /thread.

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josell
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July 28, 2011, 11:43:14 PM
 #28

There are no police in Disney World either. Try to start something there though and you will find yourself surrounded by ducks and mice packing guns.
So anarchists promote landowner (and therefore slavery, because every one have their own laws in that dystopia)

If someone kill other in disney, there would not be police nor judgment? There would be government involven... Sorry, your example is wrong.
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July 28, 2011, 11:45:22 PM
 #29

So anarchists promote landowner (and therefore slavery, because every one have their own laws in that dystopia)

If someone kill other in disney, there would not be police nor judgment? mmm... Sorry, your example is wrong.

You know 'dystopia', but not 'arbitration'?

...interesting schooling you've had.

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josell
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July 28, 2011, 11:50:21 PM
 #30

So anarchists promote landowner (and therefore slavery, because every one have their own laws in that dystopia)

If someone kill other in disney, there would not be police nor judgment? mmm... Sorry, your example is wrong.

You know 'dystopia', but not 'arbitration'?

...interesting schooling you've had.
arbitration need arbitrators; even they have to have a law for reference. If a killer would not be recurring to arbitration, and if there is no law nor police, no one can force them. So, no justice.
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July 28, 2011, 11:57:30 PM
 #31

arbitration need arbitrators; even they have to have a law for reference. If a killer would not be recurring to arbitration, and if there is no law nor police, no one can force them. So, no justice.

Ahh... No bigger thugs, to push people around, so, no justice, eh?

keep in mind that that whole 'can't force' thing cuts both ways, up to and including food, shelter, and clothing. Someone who refuses arbitration would be very far up shit creek, with no paddles.

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josell
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July 29, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
 #32

arbitration need arbitrators; even they have to have a law for reference. If a killer would not be recurring to arbitration, and if there is no law nor police, no one can force them. So, no justice.

Ahh... No bigger thugs, to push people around, so, no justice, eh?

keep in mind that that whole 'can't force' thing cuts both ways, up to and including food, shelter, and clothing. Someone who refuses arbitration would be very far up shit creek, with no paddles.
However, if someone dont want food, only he will die. In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.
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July 29, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
 #33

In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.

Standards != Laws.

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josell
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July 29, 2011, 12:23:44 AM
 #34

In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.

Standards != Laws.
righr, there are standards, however, if someone chooce them, that person would be a leader by definition. If society make those standards, then society would be over the individual.
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July 29, 2011, 12:26:01 AM
 #35

In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.

Standards != Laws.
righr, there are standards, however, if someone chooce them, that person would be a leader by definition. If society make those standards, then society would be over the individual.
Have you read that wikipedia article yet?

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josell
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July 29, 2011, 12:28:28 AM
 #36

In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.

Standards != Laws.
righr, there are standards, however, if someone chooce them, that person would be a leader by definition. If society make those standards, then society would be over the individual.
Have you read that wikipedia article yet?
Thats is cohesion! If you are an anarchist, and you are giving orders, that is against your idiology.
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July 29, 2011, 12:35:05 AM
 #37

In social issues, however, many people are involved and affected, and therefore, we need standards in those cases.

Standards != Laws.
righr, there are standards, however, if someone chooce them, that person would be a leader by definition. If society make those standards, then society would be over the individual.
Have you read that wikipedia article yet?
Thats is cohesion! If you are an anarchist, and you are giving orders, that is against your idiology.
I'm not ordering you, I'm refusing to continue this conversation until you do a little research on what you're talking about. Also, I think you mean 'coercion'. cohesion means 'sticking together'.

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July 29, 2011, 06:32:13 AM
 #38

I don't even know why you guys bother correcting this guy.  The irony is earlier today I just wrote a post about how I constantly get straw-manned when I talk about Somalia.  It gets really old and really irritating after a while. 
myrkul
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July 29, 2011, 06:52:10 AM
 #39

I don't even know why you guys bother correcting this guy.  The irony is earlier today I just wrote a post about how I constantly get straw-manned when I talk about Somalia.  It gets really old and really irritating after a while. 
If you hit every straw man with a Wikipedia article, either they shut up or actually learn what's going on. win/win.

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July 29, 2011, 06:57:22 AM
 #40

I don't even know why you guys bother correcting this guy.  The irony is earlier today I just wrote a post about how I constantly get straw-manned when I talk about Somalia.  It gets really old and really irritating after a while. 
If you hit every straw man with a Wikipedia article, either they shut up or actually learn what's going on. win/win.

Hahaha.  Good on you, then.  Carry on.  Smiley
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