Bitcoin actually does not exist

[fxsurfer]

Whether we talk about property, assets, possessions... we always have in mind things with specific properties that can be owned or controlled in some way. These things can be divided into two major categories: tangible and intangible. The former include such items as land, houses, cars, and jewelry. The later include such rights as stock, bonds, gold certificates, fiat money, patents, and copyrights. Take for example fiat money. This intangible thing is debt based instrument that entitles its holder to goods, services or foreclosed property of borrowers. By having this type of money, what people actually have is proof that they credited borrowers with goods and services, which is why borrowers must return goods and services back to these people - this happens when borrowers need money for their loan payments. The next instance of legal entitlement granted to holders of fiat money comes from the fact this money is legally tied to bank’s assets, which can be seen in a bank’s balance sheet where deposits are recorded as a claim on the bank. Specifically, when a bank grants a loan, the loan contract is shown both, as an increase in bank’s assets - because the bank now has an additional claim on borrowers, and as a positive entry on the liability side - because fiat money holders now have an additional claim on the bank. So, in the event that the borrowers default, and the bank takes possession of the property used as collateral, fiat money holders have legal claim on that property. In practice, that means that the bank will not sell foreclosed property to crypto holders, but it will sell it to fiat money holders since this is the money the bank created when it issued the loan.

So, intangible thing in the form of fiat money has its specific properties and it is not just a piece of paper or a numerical value based on faith, as many people falsely believe. Numerical values on banknotes or in bank computers are just mathematical objects that measure the size of this intangible thing.

In other words, when we talk about intangible things we are talking about something beyond paper or digital entity, as this entity just represents or measures the thing. In the case of fiat money we saw that this thing is a legal entitlement derived from debt. In the case of stocks, this thing is ownership in a corporation or a claim on part of the corporation’s assets and earnings. In the case of bonds, this thing is the entitlement to interest payments and the return of principal at maturity.

Now, since bitcoin exists as a digital entity, like for e.g. fiat money does, and since this entity is given a name, people bought the illusion that bitcoin also exists as an intangible thing which is why they call it an asset. But unfortunately, bitcoin is not an asset since nothing exists beyond digital entity stored in an online virtual wallet. There is no legal entitlement which is granted to bitcoin holders like in the case of fiat money, stocks or bonds. All there is, is an empty numerical value. Meaning, bitcoin is a number that represents nothing. Or simply put, bitcoin does not exist since number is just an abstract mathematical object that can only be used to measure the size of some asset but it cannot be considered asset itself. Therefore, bitcoin is an abstract, empty object that records the fact that someone got or gave some property, assets or possessions for free.

Also, bitcoin does not have a price. Only things that exist beyond numbers or records can have a price. Numbers and records are just abstract object that represent things, and they cannot have price in principle. If numbers represent for e.g. some important password, than we can put a price tag on it. But, the number 0.0005 stored in an online virtual wallet is not a password. So, what people see in so called "bitcoin market" is not actually a price.

Sooner or later people will realize that by ‘purchasing’ empty objects in the form of bitcoin they are abandoning their ownership rights and literally throwing away their valuable things. Ultimately, the whole scheme will destroy itself.

[zenrol28]

There is no legal entitlement

Hi, bitcoin is not government-backed btw. So why there are people who's making such effort to take control of bitcoin. Because bitcoin is becoming a threat, that time will come where all those government-backed currencies will become worthless against.

[YuginKadoya]

I really feel so much hate from you towards bitcoin, If your talking about the existence of bitcoin because it doesn't have a physical manifestation just like fiat currency have , I really think there is no need for that if you are looking for the existence of bitcoin try to look for its capabilities in its asset value, If bitcoin does not exist why does many people are investing to it and trusting it and not just ordinary person but most are well known personnel And all that exchange made towards it, And all that transaction that have ever made in its ledger.

[GayOfThrones]

That is a nice philosophical point you make, but to zoom on what is real and what is not real in this would I guess would tale us too far away. Anyway, I'd wish this forum would have more threads like this ones versus threads like "Bitcoin moon tomorrow afternoon!"

[fxsurfer]

There is no legal entitlement

Hi, bitcoin is not government-backed btw. So why there are people who's making such effort to take control of bitcoin. Because bitcoin is becoming a threat, that time will come where all those government-backed currencies will become worthless against.

Bitcoin cannot be a threat in principle, as it is just an abstract, empty mathematical object that records the fact that someone got or gave some property, assets or possessions for free. Also, there is no need to control bitcoin since nobody really cares if you send empty numbers over the internet via some computer program or give your stuff for free to someone.

[fxsurfer]

I really feel so much hate from you towards bitcoin, If your talking about the existence of bitcoin because it doesn't have a physical manifestation just like fiat currency have , I really think there is no need for that if you are looking for the existence of bitcoin try to look for its capabilities in its asset value, If bitcoin does not exist why does many people are investing to it and trusting it and not just ordinary person but most are well known personnel And all that exchange made towards it, And all that transaction that have ever made in its ledger.

Stating facts is not hate. Bitoin is not an asset since nothing exists beyond numerical value stored in an online virtual wallet. Numerical values are not assets, they are abstract mathematical objects.

[cryptobike]

Actually bitcoin is exist but it has no physical existence.if anything is not seen by us it is not true.when we sell or buy it and we can exchange thing by it ...then we get its existence

[Umkar]

The topic is raised for discussion is really interesting and in spite of the fact that it undermines our belief in the uniqueness of bitcoins as crypto-currencies, such topics need to be discussed, since we will not go anywhere from reality to anything. Those who blindly perceive bitcoin as a religion only because at this time it is still profiting them, can reasonably express their opinion, and not talk about some hatred of bitcoin simply by the facts and reflections.

What can I say about this? On the one hand, the crypto currency, of course, is simply a set of numbers and letters, beyond which there is nothing tangible. But on the other hand, it's just a new form of financial relations that give us more opportunities and rights than the current banking system. But on the other hand, the very provision of much greater opportunities,
comfort and convenience with the use of crypto currency can be estimated in terms of material benefits and in monetary terms it will be a decent amount, if you look at the use, say, bitcoin, globally. In addition, most tokens perform some specific useful function in a certain area of ​​social relations and this utility can also be measured in terms of material. But it is the utility of the token that determines the demand for it and it is possible in some way to say that it is this utility that is the measure of the material value of the token. The coin, which performs general functions as a means of payment, has a material utility. It gives us the opportunity at any time of the day and night to use the Crypto currency to quickly transfer funds to anywhere in the world without intermediaries and without outside control. Can such a new opportunity be expressed in material terms? Of course.

[DannyHamilton]

You are mistaken.

The bitcoin Blockchain is a highly secure, global, permissionless, immutable, redundant data storage.  Such a data storage system is an intrinsically valuable thing.  Bitcoin is the first such data storage storage system, and it is the most secure, and most widely used such system.

Bitcoins are a measurement of one's ability to access that storage system.  It is impossible to access that system with any currency, commodity, or asset other than bitcoins. Without any Bitcoins, one excludes one's self from having any access to that system at all.

Bitcoins have a value and a price because people desire access to that data storage system.  Access is scarce, and demand is high.  This results in a price that is currently approximately $0.00006615 per unit of access (or 15,110 units of access per $1).

[zenrol28]

There is no legal entitlement

Hi, bitcoin is not government-backed btw. So why there are people who's making such effort to take control of bitcoin. Because bitcoin is becoming a threat, that time will come where all those government-backed currencies will become worthless against.

Bitcoin cannot be a threat in principle, as it is just an abstract, empty mathematical object that records the fact that someone got or gave some property, assets or possessions for free. Also, there is no need to control bitcoin since nobody really cares if you send empty numbers over the internet via some computer program or give your stuff for free to someone.

So why there are entities that are trying to regulate bitcoin if it doesn't exist? Why they will waste their time on nothing? Isn't it obvious? Bitcoin will not just disrupt their fiat currencies, Bitcoin will eat all of them until everyone of us is free to trade anytime, anywhere without those corrupted eyes of the government.

[Irvinn]

If bitcoin did not exist, there would not be so much heated debate about its use. Allegedly, non-existent digital coins are of great benefit to people and this benefit, in principle, can be measured purely in terms of materiality. It is vseravno that consider the electric current. Does it exist or not, is it material or not? He, like bitcoin, is not visible. However, under certain conditions, we can see the results of its existence. With its help, we can heat the water, illuminate the premises in the evening, that is, extract its useful properties. These useful properties are measured purely in the material form. Bitcoin can also be assessed by its material manifestation and measured in terms of money by the amount of comfort and convenience that it provides its existence. Let's say you need to transfer a certain amount from your account to the account of another individual. Earlier, we would have chosen the time when the bank was working, we would have traveled to the bank for transportation, filled out certain documents, we would have spent much more time and efforts to confirm the legitimacy of such a transfer and it would have been implemented after a certain time. Instead, we sit down at our computer or even from anywhere using a mobile phone to translate tokens or coins in the shortest possible time and without any intermediaries. Is it possible to measure such convenience in monetary terms? It is quite possible. So is there a digital currency that provides us with such convenience?