Bitcoin as property

[freegold]

Yes bitcoin is property. Any cryptocurrency can be owned by anyone. And, they are all "intellectual property," as well (see http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/). Now, how a government can tax them is a legal quandary. So, yes governments are scrambling to tax your property, except they have some real problems because they want to protect their citizens "intellectual property," and they can't afford for you to question how the multi-billionaires, and corporations, banks and governments are trading TRILLIONS of fiat electronically every single day, and no one is taxing these transactions (property). So, why exactly are you paying taxes on your property? Just want to know ...

According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

I really love the idea that bitcoin can be considered as a "property" but the question is "how can we accept bitcoin as property if property is something which is legal?" Look government in other countries don't like or support bitcoin and they declare it as illegal others are being quiet about it. Also if we are talking about property we are talking for something that no one has control over it except you and the government law. Outside this authority I doubt to accept the op's opinion.

[sunsilk]

This was around December 2017 I guess and in US they are already treating bitcoin as an asset, not a currency.

So that's normal when you are able to sell bitcoin and you profit to it, the government will take portion from that money and you owe them with tax.

Better to see this type of support from the government instead of banning it right?

[peter0425]

In fact we should be reporting our monthly bitcoin income from signature campaigns, but who the hell does that? I would do it, but im too scared to get a penalty for not doing so earlier, and I also don't know what kind of proof they will demand, I just don't know what to expect, and nobody has clear answers for this, therefore I've resorted to holding it all until I have a clear vision of what we are talking about in this case.

It depends per country. I have been a freelancer for a good while, and haven't had one single time where the tax department required me to provide any proof. I recorded everything obviously, for in case they did ask for it, but it didn't happen. In some cases I had to pay like 50% in tax over all my earnings as freelancer, which is just insane. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying tax when reasonable, but this is a clear form of theft, and for that reason will never pay tax over my signature campaign earnings, and I'm sure others think alike -- just don't let greedy governments take away even more from you. Don't wake sleeping dogs....

Exactly, it really depends on what country you are in. For me, I've been in the freelancing business as well since 2009-2013, keeps everything documented, but governments didn't ran after me, so I guess I'm still good with my government.

But if they are going to look and have me paid my taxes, then I would be willing to do. What I hate is that my taxes are going somewhere else. Like to see it being used in projects that our people can benefit.

P.S. I also not reporting my signature earnings but everything can be tracked in blockchain.

[BitHodler]

This was around December 2017 I guess and in US they are already treating bitcoin as an asset, not a currency.

They are not. Also, every state seems to have different views and tax policies on crypto in its entirety, so it's not that the US as a whole will have the same rules applying to crypto.

In certain states you may even end up paying close to 50% in tax over your short term gains, while other states aren't as brutal with their extortion attempts. I however aside from tax purposes don't see why this is important.

At the end of the day the usage by yourself is the only thing that matters, not what category the government think is fitting for crypto. They'll never acknowledge crypto to be a currency, even when people use it as such.

[rolerVX]

How about my government decide not to legalize bitcoin ?
If they don't legalize bitcoin, they don't have the right to apply the tax,right ?
They still not make any restrict policy yet so I can still use bitcoin without paying any tax !

In that case it would be depends on what country we are for not all countries do the same thing with tax on bitcoin. Probably this kind of doing is for the country who make bitcoin as legal. For those who make bitcoin as decentralized it is not taxable for government cannot interfere to crypto.

[maarx]

According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

Interesting to watch the video created. New way of getting tax to what is earned from bitcoin. How can you consider crypto currency bitcoin as a property. In order charge tax how can you term bitcoin as a property. Why such a foolish expression? Lets pay tax if the government asks for but it depends, we can pay if the respected government legally accepted bitcoin and other crypto currencies. What is the use of creating such a video which is not a use and viewers time is wasted as well.

[Greenkarki]

According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

Interesting to watch the video created. New way of getting tax to what is earned from bitcoin. How can you consider crypto currency bitcoin as a property. In order charge tax how can you term bitcoin as a property. Why such a foolish expression? Lets pay tax if the government asks for but it depends, we can pay if the respected government legally accepted bitcoin and other crypto currencies. What is the use of creating such a video which is not a use and viewers time is wasted as well.

How every bitcoin is called, never mind, i take it as an asset to save for future. I love to save bitcoin instead of exchanging bitcoin into fiats and use it for other purpose. I am saving the earnings though it is very small. I love to rank up soon with merits which will help me earn bit more and save them for future. This savings should help my son's studies as well it should help me invest on other crypto currencies.

[Snaic]

I am not totally convinced with this 'though the possibility is there, the thing is,  how can we consider it as property if bitcoin is only existing in the internet and the holder has no control with the price? Property is a thing that no one can control it and also when we talk about property we are talking about the physical thing. Could you please give me more explaination regarding this matter? I do really want to understand it? Thanks.

This, by the way, is a very interesting idea. From a legal point of view, the right of ownership includes the right of possession, the right to use and the right to dispose of any thing to assert that this thing is property. The right of ownership is precisely that for property it is necessary that you really own a digital coin, the right of use - they could extract its useful properties and the right to dispose - to actually dispose of it. If you do not have at least one of these rights, then you are not the owner of a certain thing. Do we have the right to own a crypto currency in this case, if it is actually on the Internet and some hacker can take it away from us because we practically do not own it, this coin does not exist with us? This is really a good reason to prove in court that the crypto currency can not be recognized as property.

[nelmari]

This is quite an interesting topic and I never thought about it until I read this thread. And yes I think it could be taxable once you convert it into cash and place it in your bank, that’s why banks asks where the money came from so they would know if it was from work or whatever to have it taxed.

[paresh nakar]

yes of course its property we can wants money then we going to our wallet and convert to our county money so i thought it is our property.

[futureofeth]

Mostly we are considering bitcoin as a commodity and has the chance to increase its price even higher, there is a chance of holding the bitcoin for certain period of time is always good and many people considering it as property only because people want to hold it for the long term.

[Lieldoryn]

Mostly we are considering bitcoin as a commodity and has the chance to increase its price even higher, there is a chance of holding the bitcoin for certain period of time is always good and many people considering it as property only because people want to hold it for the long term.

Agreed. The way it is. But it seems to me that this is only a temporary phenomenon. Sellers of goods will be happy to accept bitcoin for payment because its price will always have a prospect of growth. If the seller does not want to store coins, he can always exchange them for Fiat and not lose profit. Bitcoin is bound to become a currency.

[Spaffin]

Indeed, to treat bitcoin as a property, we must have the right to use it, possession and disposal. With the right of ownership, there can be certain difficulties, because we do not actually own our crypto currency, it is somewhere on the Internet. Although this is a controversial issue: where is actually the crypto currency - on the Internet or not.

[LegendzX]

According to this video, https://www.facebook.com/cnbccrypto/videos/1688689147880991/

Bitcoin is considered as property and therefore whenever you sell your BTCto cash, there are two transactions. You first sell the ‘property’ to cash value then what you gain from the sale is used as cash. These transactions are therefore taxable.

For HODLers, if you cash out it in less than a year then it would be considered as income so there’s tax for that. If you hodl for more than a year, then IRS will consider it as 20% capital gains.

In my own understanding if it is declared by the government then that is reasonable enough.

[nebuch]

This is quite an interesting topic and I never thought about it until I read this thread. And yes I think it could be taxable once you convert it into cash and place it in your bank, that’s why banks asks where the money came from so they would know if it was from work or whatever to have it taxed.

Suppose it is applicable to the country who have deal to cryptocurrency strictly. They have the power to implement tax if they could for they have an authority over the matter. However this kind of issue are not yet applied all over the world for there are country that no business to deal with this crypto. They never mind the income of others but they question where did it come from until such time they think they can get some extra money from cryptocurrency lovers.

[Budugbass]

Mostly we are considering bitcoin as a commodity and has the chance to increase its price even higher, there is a chance of holding the bitcoin for certain period of time is always good and many people considering it as property only because people want to hold it for the long term.

And maybe over time.., it will become more powerful and closer to many people because of its superiority and many other things that can be done until it really can play an important role for life as a complement that's really needed as a source income. Not to mention if more countries can accept it and make it legitimate to buy anything with online.

[QuynhVu2302]

I suppose for bitcoin being a property is also a sensible thing. Because if bitcoin is an asset, its value will be determined by the law of supply and demand, and if it is currency, it will be subject to many legal frameworks of government.

[reality18]

I suppose for bitcoin being a property is also a sensible thing. Because if bitcoin is an asset, its value will be determined by the law of supply and demand, and if it is currency, it will be subject to many legal frameworks of government.

Bitcoin in its nature is like the two faces of a coin. It can be seen as an asset and also as a currency. Either ways has it own advantages and disadvantages. As said, if Bitcoin is considered as a currency, it makes it liable to government regulations such as payment of taxes with each transactions and other authoritative suggestions. On the other hand, being a currency grants Bitcoin the ability to serve as a medium of exchange.

[hahay]

Yes it seems that bitcoin can be expressed like that, bitcoin is an asset, just like a property that if sold and scarce will be more expensive its price, as well as bitcoin, in the future bitcoin will be rare because it will run out after being mined. So saving the bitcoin for a long time I think it's very profitable.

[cryptojac17]

Yes it seems that bitcoin can be expressed like that, bitcoin is an asset, just like a property that if sold and scarce will be more expensive its price, as well as bitcoin, in the future bitcoin will be rare because it will run out after being mined. So saving the bitcoin for a long time I think it's very profitable.

Yeah if you follow law of  taxation it seems that  bitcoin be sold like and asset in the law of taxation if you sell properties there is a corresponding tax, these  will happen when we legalized bitcoin but  since this is a crypto currency and anonymous, decentralized and no boundaries I don't think that government can emposed  tax easily but  it will entail a thorough study and evaluation. Before they can emposed  taxation.