Is there only one use for Bitcoins?

[ReadySalted]

After doing some research and finding these forums, I'd like some input on this theory:

"The only thing that makes Bitcoins worth anything is Silk Road."

The way I see it, Silk Road and similar sites are the only use for Bitcoins where you cannot use regular currency.  Why would anyone convert their money to bitcoins to then spend somewhere where they could use paypal or their bank card?

All the investments and mining are only worth anything because people buy bitcoins to obtain illegal goods with.

Thoughts?
(I had to post this in newbie as it is my first post)

[1714048578]

1714048578

[1714048578]

1714048578

[1714048578]

1714048578

[1714048578]

1714048578

[1714048578]

1714048578

[1714048578]

1714048578

[arnoldrimmer]

No see here http://www.winfuture-forum.de/index.php?showtopic=190288&st=0&p=1653600&hl=bitcoins&fromsearch=1&#entry1653600

[blobbie]

There are probably some stores and services where it's cheaper to buy with BTCs. Get out your calculator

[ReadySalted]

I still think this all mainly boils down to betting on how excited people are going to get about buying illegal things online.

I'm not saying I'm right or anything, I'm happy for people to explain what other legitimate uses BTC have.

[timmey]

All the investments and mining are only worth anything because people buy bitcoins to obtain illegal goods with.

You mean like with real cash?

You can use Bitcoins like cash in a usual store or supermarket. You can shop on Amazon or Itunes(through http://spendbitcoins.com), what's so illegal about that? You can buy coffee and tea at http://bitbrew.net/ , or shirts at http://www.squarewear.biz , nothing illegal either. I for myself offer to sign you up at a porn site, so your credit card billing won't show porn. The market is still small but it's growing every day. Of course there a dirty corners on the interwebz like SilkRoad but there are also dirty corners in every city where you can buy the very same stuff for cash.

[NothinG]

I plan on selling game and voice servers via BTC.

[dub0matic]

Since we have btc shirts now we need some btc jeans/shorts

[Explodicle]

Crime is a major factor in its value, no denying that. However, Bitcoin had value before the Silk Road. It's just another business.

[timmey]

Since we have btc shirts now we need some btc jeans/shorts

Not to forget shoes and shiny objects for the ladies: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=32386.0

[Stephen Gornick]

Why would anyone convert their money to bitcoins to then spend somewhere where they could use paypal or their bank card?

Holding bitcoins as an investment
Bitcoin also functions as a store of value -- one with the potential of increasing in value over time.  Just as people will put money in gold, silver, bonds or Apple stock even, some will buy and hold bitcoins.

Non-reversible
Chargebacks get abused, and the merchant suffer losses.  What this means is that if a merchant can't rely on the status of funds -- with no chance of reversal, then there are some businesses that won't or can't accept either paypal or bank card payments.  As we are learning, not even a "cash payments" system like Dwolla is non-reversible.

Low fees
When a business does accept PayPal or bank payment card, the merchant loses a certain amount of each sale to the payment processor.  PayPal's rate is $0.30 per transaction plus 2.9%.  So the merchant gets just $19.42 when you send $20.

No settlement delay
When receiving bitcoins, those funds can be used for spending in just minutes.  For a merchant or individual even with a tight cash flow (i.e., nearly broke), not having to wait three days for your money to clear the settlement process is a big advantage over payment cards.

These reasons are why the recipient of the funds might like for you to pay using bitcoin.  To help persuade you, a discount might even be offered.  This is similar to how some merchants offer a discount for paying with cash.  Some gas stations have two prices -- one for when paying with cash and another for when paying with a credit card.

Now, when you receive bitcoin as payments, you end up on the other side of your argument.  Why would the merchant want to convert bitcoins received to PayPal or to a bank card if they could simply use those bitcoins for the purchases they make.

Not only does that merchant save by not having to convert at an exchange the funds that were received, that merchant might also receive a discount when using bitcoin as the payment method for its purchases.

We are not there yet, but as the Bitcoin economy continues to build this scenario is an entirely possible outcome.

[nefanon]

Why would anyone convert their money to bitcoins to then spend somewhere where they could use paypal or their bank card?

Holding bitcoins as an investment
Bitcoin also functions as a store of value -- one with the potential of increasing in value over time.  Just as people will put money in gold, silver, bonds or Apple stock even, some will buy and hold bitcoins.

Non-reversible
Chargebacks get abused, and the merchant suffer losses.  What this means is that if a merchant can't rely on the status of funds -- with no chance of reversal, then there are some businesses that won't or can't accept either paypal or bank card payments.  As we are learning, not even a "cash payments" system like Dwolla is non-reversible.

Low fees
When a business does accept PayPal or bank payment card, the merchant loses a certain amount of each sale to the payment processor.  PayPal's rate is $0.30 per transaction plus 2.9%.  So the merchant gets just $19.42 when you send $20.

No settlement delay
When receiving bitcoins, those funds can be used for spending in just minutes.  For a merchant or individual even with a tight cash flow (i.e., nearly broke), not having to wait three days for your money to clear the settlement process is a big advantage over payment cards.

Excellent summary, thanks   
These reasons are why the recipient of the funds might like for you to pay using bitcoin.  To help persuade you, a discount might even be offered.  This is similar to how some merchants offer a discount for paying with cash.  Some gas stations have two prices -- one for when paying with cash and another for when paying with a credit card.

Now, when you receive bitcoin as payments, you end up on the other side of your argument.  Why would the merchant want to convert bitcoins received to PayPal or to a bank card if they could simply use those bitcoins for the purchases they make.

Not only does that merchant save by not having to convert at an exchange the funds that were received, that merchant might also receive a discount when using bitcoin as the payment method for its purchases.

We are not there yet, but as the Bitcoin economy continues to build this scenario is an entirely possible outcome.

[k3ks3]

Well there is another use (i think it was not mentioned) as bitcoin is a currency you can as with all currencys go trade only with bitcoins, making quiet a bit of money. AFter all it is kind of a stock marker, therefore you can make money like on every stock marcket.
greetz
cookie

[ReadySalted]

Why would anyone convert their money to bitcoins to then spend somewhere where they could use paypal or their bank card?

Holding bitcoins as an investment
Bitcoin also functions as a store of value -- one with the potential of increasing in value over time.  Just as people will put money in gold, silver, bonds or Apple stock even, some will buy and hold bitcoins.

Non-reversible
Chargebacks get abused, and the merchant suffer losses.  What this means is that if a merchant can't rely on the status of funds -- with no chance of reversal, then there are some businesses that won't or can't accept either paypal or bank card payments.  As we are learning, not even a "cash payments" system like Dwolla is non-reversible.

Low fees
When a business does accept PayPal or bank payment card, the merchant loses a certain amount of each sale to the payment processor.  PayPal's rate is $0.30 per transaction plus 2.9%.  So the merchant gets just $19.42 when you send $20.

No settlement delay
When receiving bitcoins, those funds can be used for spending in just minutes.  For a merchant or individual even with a tight cash flow (i.e., nearly broke), not having to wait three days for your money to clear the settlement process is a big advantage over payment cards.

These reasons are why the recipient of the funds might like for you to pay using bitcoin.  To help persuade you, a discount might even be offered.  This is similar to how some merchants offer a discount for paying with cash.  Some gas stations have two prices -- one for when paying with cash and another for when paying with a credit card.

Now, when you receive bitcoin as payments, you end up on the other side of your argument.  Why would the merchant want to convert bitcoins received to PayPal or to a bank card if they could simply use those bitcoins for the purchases they make.

Not only does that merchant save by not having to convert at an exchange the funds that were received, that merchant might also receive a discount when using bitcoin as the payment method for its purchases.

We are not there yet, but as the Bitcoin economy continues to build this scenario is an entirely possible outcome.

All good points, I hadn't even thought of the low fees and settlement.

Good to see there is another side to it, it would be amazing if sometime soon you could walk to the corner shop and use your bitcoin card/mobile app to pay for things.  I think the price needs to be a bit more stable though for that.