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Author Topic: How Bitcoin might destroy another entire industry!  (Read 2923 times)
User705
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November 09, 2013, 02:09:31 AM
 #1

There is an entire industry handling trillions of various fiat currency.  Many companies and even entire countries specialize in this industry called asset protection.  Countless man hours and enormous amounts are spent creating off shore shell companies, trusts, and various other vehicles to shield money from seizure ranging from cases of simple judgements personal or business all the way to issues of protecting wealth in countries where politics play a big role in permitting or confiscating personal wealth.  A few good lessons on bitcoin security makes Switzerland and Cayman Islands obsolete.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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theonewhowaskazu
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November 09, 2013, 03:56:13 AM
 #2

There is an entire industry handling trillions of various fiat currency.  Many companies and even entire countries specialize in this industry called asset protection.  Countless man hours and enormous amounts are spent creating off shore shell companies, trusts, and various other vehicles to shield money from seizure ranging from cases of simple judgements personal or business all the way to issues of protecting wealth in countries where politics play a big role in permitting or confiscating personal wealth.  A few good lessons on bitcoin security makes Switzerland and Cayman Islands obsolete.

Not really, a tax haven is still a tax haven. Its just the banks that live there won't have such a fun time. Although, corporations will probably still use them for the interest.

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November 09, 2013, 04:32:07 AM
 #3

It's not just about taxes although that is one end of the spectrum.  Many other countries use "taxes" as political weapons like China, and Russia.  The bread and butter of asset protection business is setting up corporations, LLC, and trusts to defend against frivolous liability and other lawsuits.  Some examples are set up slip and fall or suing for pretend injuries in auto accidents.  Many lawyers who take up these cases work on a percentage basis and tend to avoid situations were collecting would be hard.  Collecting with bitcoin is impossible.
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November 09, 2013, 06:31:34 PM
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It's not just about taxes although that is one end of the spectrum.  Many other countries use "taxes" as political weapons like China, and Russia.  The bread and butter of asset protection business is setting up corporations, LLC, and trusts to defend against frivolous liability and other lawsuits.  Some examples are set up slip and fall or suing for pretend injuries in auto accidents.  Many lawyers who take up these cases work on a percentage basis and tend to avoid situations were collecting would be hard.  Collecting with bitcoin is impossible.
Not really, if you get a court order to cough up your Bitcoins you sort of have to.

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November 09, 2013, 06:51:44 PM
 #5

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.
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November 09, 2013, 07:49:30 PM
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It's not just about taxes although that is one end of the spectrum.  Many other countries use "taxes" as political weapons like China, and Russia.  The bread and butter of asset protection business is setting up corporations, LLC, and trusts to defend against frivolous liability and other lawsuits.  Some examples are set up slip and fall or suing for pretend injuries in auto accidents.  Many lawyers who take up these cases work on a percentage basis and tend to avoid situations were collecting would be hard.  Collecting with bitcoin is impossible.
Not really, if you get a court order to cough up your Bitcoins you sort of have to.

What Bitcoins? I lost my wallet.dat, it got corrupted years ago.
Bitcoin is the first wealth that is portable and reputable.

Kinda hard to say you don't have a physical asset (say gold) when they open the safe and it is there.  Kinda hard to move $1M in gold bullion out of the country (damn TSA metal detectors).
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November 09, 2013, 07:57:10 PM
 #7

One of the main reason for converting gold to BTC is international portability.  With currency wars heating up as evidenced by the last "surprise" ECB rate cut, future capital controls in the "developed" nations are possible.
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November 10, 2013, 05:32:11 AM
 #8

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.


Torture.
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November 10, 2013, 05:45:16 AM
 #9

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.

Theoretically , it can't be done. The only case till now , shows it can be done. Irony isn't it?
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November 10, 2013, 06:03:30 AM
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It's not just about taxes although that is one end of the spectrum.  Many other countries use "taxes" as political weapons like China, and Russia.  The bread and butter of asset protection business is setting up corporations, LLC, and trusts to defend against frivolous liability and other lawsuits.  Some examples are set up slip and fall or suing for pretend injuries in auto accidents.  Many lawyers who take up these cases work on a percentage basis and tend to avoid situations were collecting would be hard.  Collecting with bitcoin is impossible.
Not really, if you get a court order to cough up your Bitcoins you sort of have to.

What Bitcoins? I lost my wallet.dat, it got corrupted years ago.
Bitcoin is the first wealth that is portable and reputable.

Kinda hard to say you don't have a physical asset (say gold) when they open the safe and it is there.  Kinda hard to move $1M in gold bullion out of the country (damn TSA metal detectors).

Then they'll just take your physical assets. You can't claim you have nothing for them to take.

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November 10, 2013, 06:17:22 AM
 #11

It's not just about taxes although that is one end of the spectrum.  Many other countries use "taxes" as political weapons like China, and Russia.  The bread and butter of asset protection business is setting up corporations, LLC, and trusts to defend against frivolous liability and other lawsuits.  Some examples are set up slip and fall or suing for pretend injuries in auto accidents.  Many lawyers who take up these cases work on a percentage basis and tend to avoid situations were collecting would be hard.  Collecting with bitcoin is impossible.
Not really, if you get a court order to cough up your Bitcoins you sort of have to.

What Bitcoins? I lost my wallet.dat, it got corrupted years ago.
Bitcoin is the first wealth that is portable and reputable.

Kinda hard to say you don't have a physical asset (say gold) when they open the safe and it is there.  Kinda hard to move $1M in gold bullion out of the country (damn TSA metal detectors).

Then they'll just take your physical assets. You can't claim you have nothing for them to take.

Well they might be doing that anyways but that is one asset they can't take.
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November 10, 2013, 06:21:45 AM
 #12

I have hardly any physical assets now.

I just moved recently, and I limited myself to what would fit in my car in two trips.

Also one of those trips I brought 140 lbs worth of dogs with me, so my actual physical assets are no more than about what you can pack in 1.5 trips in a Focus.

With a bit of work, I could reduce my physical possessions even further to only what I could take with me on an international flight.

Location independence is a great thing, and it's possible now with Bitcoin in a way that has never been possible before.
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November 10, 2013, 11:08:52 AM
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"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.

Theoretically , it can't be done. The only case till now , shows it can be done. Irony isn't it?

If you are even as careless as someone who leaves his real-name E-mail address on a public website, then yes.... Roll Eyes

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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November 10, 2013, 06:51:45 PM
 #14

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.


Torture.
Really?  So you mean a court can order torture for someone not paying a collections bill?  What country do you live in.
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November 10, 2013, 07:46:04 PM
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Tax havens, offshore businesses and trusts etc are a lot more secure than Bitcoins I'm afraid to say, so there's no way they'll be driven out of business.



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November 10, 2013, 09:39:33 PM
 #16


Tax havens, offshore businesses and trusts etc are a lot more secure than Bitcoins I'm afraid to say, so there's no way they'll be driven out of business.




How are they more secure?  At the end of the day a bank account with money is always seizable.  Ask the people who held money in offshore Cyprus how secure that was and that's only the recent example.  Post WWII world is full of various nationalizations.
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November 10, 2013, 10:17:00 PM
 #17

There is an entire industry handling trillions of various fiat currency.  Many companies and even entire countries specialize in this industry called asset protection.  Countless man hours and enormous amounts are spent creating off shore shell companies, trusts, and various other vehicles to shield money from seizure ranging from cases of simple judgements personal or business all the way to issues of protecting wealth in countries where politics play a big role in permitting or confiscating personal wealth.  A few good lessons on bitcoin security makes Switzerland and Cayman Islands obsolete.

This could be partly true, but I think with it's volatility and newness, it's a long way from that. Additionally I'm not really worried about the people in that industry, they'll find something to do.
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November 11, 2013, 08:42:36 AM
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Tax havens, offshore businesses and trusts etc are a lot more secure than Bitcoins I'm afraid to say, so there's no way they'll be driven out of business.

How are they more secure?  At the end of the day a bank account with money is always seizable.  Ask the people who held money in offshore Cyprus how secure that was and that's only the recent example.  Post WWII world is full of various nationalizations.

Don't compare Cyprus with Switzerland or other proper offshore locations. Also the naive on here assume that whats held in these locations is just cash, whereas there's far more held in other assets like properties, businesses and equities. No-one with any sense and money keeps it in cash, since the returns are so poor.
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November 11, 2013, 08:45:52 AM
 #19

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.


Torture.
Really?  So you mean a court can order torture for someone not paying a collections bill?  What country do you live in.

all of them here shortly

open your eyes man

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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November 11, 2013, 05:50:37 PM
 #20

"Sort of have to"?  Please describe the process by which you see this happening?  That's assuming one can prove that the coins in a certain address belong to a certain person or entity.


Torture.
Really?  So you mean a court can order torture for someone not paying a collections bill?  What country do you live in.

all of them here shortly

open your eyes man

depends on your definition of torture, but all the laws end up with a man pointing a gun at you, in the end you'll end up behind bars and we all know it's not a nice place to be.
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