Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[philipma1957]

one last try to explain this.  

1 share of r 9 = 8gh     hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.


 I have 157 in my pocket.   and 40th Down the road.

I paid only  123  for one share of r9    

  
  i have  collected .23 in btc  and

 I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now.    if  diff stays at 25%   we  

jump to 883 on the 11th

jump to 1104 on the 22th

jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan

jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan

jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan

jump to 2696 on the  4th feb

jump to 3371 on the  11th feb

jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb.       this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff.     so  once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now.  and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid.  130 of the 287

if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash.  

  BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh  so 287 gets you  26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.

 So if you really want to hash  buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.

It's definitely worth discussing this, but in my position this has two issues.

1. Swapping short-term risk (not being able to get hashrate up) for long-term risk (new hardware is delivered and hashes as advertised)

2. Putting all my eggs in one basket. I already have shares in R17. I'd like to keep my shares diversified if possible.

well then hold as btc.


look  we are at a race track with many tracks  races  and horses to pick

one race has horse named " hold the btc "

another race has a horse named " l Love Dz coop "

we bet I love dz coop  and it came in  basically we got 3 to 1 on our bet.

if you bet hold the btc you would have got about 6 to 1.  

  every one that feels bad    is feeling bad about picking a lessor winner in a different race and everyone that resists taking profit is  making the ones that want to cash out on the winner wait and risk winnings.

The machines will not earn .35 btc a share in the next 90 days.

 this pay out is .35 btc now not over 90 days now.  I can not stress how important now is when it comes to btc.

All those that fail to see this need to realize the payout of 287 usd is .325 btc as I type and then figure what 8 gh earns from dec 15th on

it does not earn the .325 btc    for a long time  if ever.

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[wontons]

fwiw, I put in my vote of 4 shares to sell.  I went through my PM and I guess I had paid for this with fiat, so win/win.

[testerx]

Well I honestly have to say I don't know if the coop simply wants us to sell or what's going on but this new offer is definitely more tempting.  It seems like the hashrate keeps dropping every day, I don't know what's going on, are we still trying to keep the hashrate up or have we basically given up since there's a buyout offer?

[thomas_s]

Well I honestly have to say I don't know if the coop simply wants us to sell or what's going on but this new offer is definitely more tempting.  It seems like the hashrate keeps dropping every day, I don't know what's going on, are we still trying to keep the hashrate up or have we basically given up since there's a buyout offer?

We are trying but the rpi's aren't cooperating they require resets very frequently to keep them up and with bobsag3 being in china the past weekend it didn't help either.

If the rpi's and the stratum proxy cooperated we'd be golden.

[davedx]

Well I honestly have to say I don't know if the coop simply wants us to sell or what's going on but this new offer is definitely more tempting.  It seems like the hashrate keeps dropping every day, I don't know what's going on, are we still trying to keep the hashrate up or have we basically given up since there's a buyout offer?

We are trying but the rpi's aren't cooperating they require resets very frequently to keep them up and with bobsag3 being in china the past weekend it didn't help either.

If the rpi's and the stratum proxy cooperated we'd be golden.

Will this issue affect future runs too (e.g. R17)?

I'm still finding it hard to gauge whether it's better to throw everything into R17.

[trinsic]

I believe R9-R12 are Bitfury chips which require a computer (RPi) to operate while the X-Prospero are self contained and just connect to a router.

[davedx]

I believe R9-R12 are Bitfury chips which require a computer (RPi) to operate while the X-Prospero are self contained and just connect to a router.

Cool. If the coop votes to sell I'll probably throw everything into R17 then. We'll see.

[bobsag3]

I am back from china (well, sitting at the airport in chicago)

I have a beavy of fixes to try, and some other tricks up my sleave to get our hashrate back up. I hope to get it out tonight... but I still have 1 more flight and 2 hours drive before I am back at the facility.

[thetopham]

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

[nicksmith]

I am back from china (well, sitting at the airport in chicago)

I have a beavy of fixes to try, and some other tricks up my sleave to get our hashrate back up. I hope to get it out tonight... but I still have 1 more flight and 2 hours drive before I am back at the facility.

WB Bob! Hope your trip was also some fun!

[philipma1957]

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

  that was not so clever as you may think.

here is why I say that.  all of us depend on dzcoop to be nice guys non thief's yada yada yada.

worse case is they are brilliant thieves.  well if they are great crooks. you play into their hands.  why may you ask.  here is why.  most of dzcoops money is in r17 and it is a lot of the money.  more then 70%.  Right now I know where the miner facility is located but they have said they are getting a new one.  they are putting all of r17 into the new one.

Sooo if they close the old one down and go poof lets say on feb 15 they will score huge money .   and instead of r9 r10 r11 r12 being a solid winner guys likes you hurt the rest of us. 

  frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.

 I for one believe in them and would not hesitate to spend more on r17 as I think they are honest but the share holders that are doubting dzcoop should have all voted to take the money. voting to keep mining because you doubt dzcoop is not very logical.   they have more then 250000 usd in coin locked up in r17
 they could bolt and where would you be?

I for one am ahead and I have faith in them.  I voted for dissolving this for many reasons  not the long slow deep con reason above.  But when some one states they think something is crooked and lacks trust well then I had to point out what the f is your reasoning  they have 4 or 5 fold the money in r17 dude and they could go poof on any day.  So why let them hold your money here?

[mrm0]

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

  that was not so clever as you may think.

  frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.

I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me.
If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC?

Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try.

The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide.

[jatt2007]

Im starting to get frustrated, this is a no brainer people, SELL!!!!!!!

[Hili]

Im starting to get frustrated, this is a no brainer people, SELL!!!!!!!

Let everyone decide for themselves. The vote continues untill the 14th anyway.
It is said that knowledge is one of the most valuable assets. If we wait for bobsag3's experience with the fixes he has in mind, we might be able to make a better decision in the end.

[sf2]

 

[bobsag3]

bob also is responsible when he gets back to get the 4 knc machines waiting for him to get online for R15,16

hopefully it will not take much of his time.

sit tight

I have ~8 boxes waiting for me... Gotta love tight schedules

[philipma1957]

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

 that was not so clever as you may think.

  frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.

I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me.
If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC?

Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try.

The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide.

Yes I am .  here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer.  

Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop.   So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares?

[philipma1957]

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

 that was not so clever as you may think.

  frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.

I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me.
If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC?

Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try.

The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide.

Yes I am .  here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer.  

Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop.   So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares?

Okay lets put this another way.  I believe in the coop.  I believe in  black arrow and I believe r17 will whale.  I have a degree in accounting and have years of tax /investment experience ..   DzCoop   has 70% of its hash in r17.  if the gear sucks DzCoop is really going to take a hit.
  Since r9 -r12 buyers have 3x their fiat  and the gear has problems  and r17 is coming closer..    Here are the possible out comes

 1)R17 is great.   this means all older gear is not so great. maybe  only 10-15 % of what it is now
 2)R17 is meh.     this means all older gear is still not so great but  lets say a 70% drop not an 85%  drop in power
 3)R17 is terrible   crashing and burning dzcoop to the ground
 4)Dzcoop are bad guys and vanish in a few days.

All of the above are possible.

1)If the first one is true voting no to  sale r9-r12 prevents putting the money into r17
2)If the second one is true voting no to the sale of  r9-r12 is less bad  but still prevents picking more of r17 or bailing out of both
3)If the third is true  voting no prevents  getting out some cash now.
4)lastly if this is true insisting on the buyout might expose the con ending sales in r17 so less is stolen.

I would like my 11 x 287 = 3157 usd ..

I would buy  10 shares of r17   1300

 keep 1 btc    = 957 usd

 and cash for 900 usd at coin base.

this investment move  above  would be pretty much unbeatable  compared to mining with my 11 underperforming shares.

 1 share = 8.3 gh      that will not mine 287 usd at today's prices.
11 share = 91.3 gh   this will not mine 3157 usd at today prices.

If coins go down it is worse to have held.  if we sold and I cash 900 usd I lower that problem.

If coins go up  I simply will be holding 1 btc so I will do okay.  

 If diff goes nuts. I will turn my 91.3 gh into 400 gh.

[philipma1957]

still under hashing.  looks like 1.8 not 3.3 and no knc miner added


http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=302

 we have earned about 18 btc since dec 1st

we are short about 5btc in just the dec 1 to dec 11 time frame

at a diff of 908 mill  3.3th earns 1.827 btc a day.  
the current 1.8th on lines earns .9966 btc a day

roughly  .83 btc short each day if the rate stays at 1.8 vs 3.3


so if the dividend was today it would be 18/400 = .045  a share   it should be 23/400 or .0575 a share.    in usd it would be  39.96   vs 51.06  these figures do not count expenses and are rough estimates.  

 but the idea that $40  vs $50  means  as of today we are on schedule for 80% of what should be paid.

 
_________________-----------------______________________----------------------------_______________________---------------------
 total shortfall since the first day of hashing is a bit over 20btc  or 20/400 = .05 btc about 45 usd a share.

[Hili]

Yes I am .  here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer.  

Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop.   So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares?

So not selling and keeping your assets with DZMC suggests that you have less trust in DZMC than when you're selling the shares? Logic?
Imo, holding the shares equals to putting more trust in the DZMC, relying on the fact that bobsag3 will come up with a fix to increase the hashrate.


May I remind you btw that the volatile nature of bitcoin also poses a risk to the profitability of selling the shares vs holding them? Bitcoin could very well rally up to a point when exchanging the money from the deal into BTC will result in less BTC than gained from keeping the miners running.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you have a reasonable chance of being right. But imho you're assuming too much, too confident that selling the shares is the right thing.
Have you voted already? If not, wouldn't it be wise to atleast wait untill the 14th to see what bobsag3 has to say and see what the conversion rate is at?


To whoever is in charge of the deal, at what time will the $ be converted into BTC?