Bitcoin Forum
August 23, 2019, 12:24:18 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: What is your stance on capital punishment?  (Read 1010 times)
AverageGlabella
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 369
Merit: 572


Thinking with average intent


View Profile
April 09, 2018, 10:35:28 PM
Merited by Foxpup (6), funsponge (3), suchmoon (2), bones261 (1), aleksej996 (1), Quickfant (1)
 #1

I've been studying this subject recently and have had some heated discussions in the past about it with friends and the like. Recently though I've been looking at some polls which have been conducted and it seems that the vast majority of people actually agree with the death penalty. I think it would be interesting to have a discussion with the Bitcoin community on this as I tend to find that they are much more logical and open minded to things than the normal targeted audience that these polls are presented too. 

Quotes may be shorter than they are in sources to cut down on filler content and pick out the most important aspects.

According to the guardian[1] "China, Iran, North Korea, Yemen and the US carried out the most executions in 2012. At least 1,722 people were sentenced to death in 58 countries in 2012."

I think if we look at all the countries there the most surprising one would likely be the US. Iran which isn't on the greatest terms with American currently shares a common characteristic with America in terms of people getting sentenced to death. In fact according to this source between 2007-2012 America sentenced 504 people to death whilst Iran sentenced much less (156).

I'm not at all defending the approach that these countries take and aren't saying that 156 lives taken isn't worse/better than 504 as this is another debate and hard dilemma.  I personally feel that the death penalty should be abolished worldwide and I'll go on to list my counter arguments to common statements about why the death penalty should remain. Although I think it would be interesting if we could have an actual discussion about this and possibly my view point will change.

I feel that these are the major points people seem to come up with is either for revenge, justice, if the crime is severe enough or as a deterrent for future criminals.

First of all I don't understand why revenge is considered a good thing. In most major movies revenge is normally seen being done by the 'good' guys and is justified just because someone is the bad guy in the movie. Revenge doesn't gain you anything and the only thing you are actually doing is lowering yourself down to their level. In my opinion revenge should only be felt by those who are personally affected by the situation and shouldn't impact the public at all and therefore I feel this is a poor argument when it comes to an argument for pro death penalty.

A common argument that I see is that if the crime is severe enough such as murder then it's perfectly acceptable for ordering the death of someone. I fail to see the logic here and I would invite anyone that has this mindset to explain your reasoning. I think we can all agree that to take someones life is wrong and there's got to be something chemically wrong or what ever for you to carry out the act but this also applies to sentencing someone to death. You are literally supporting a system which will put yet another person to death. Let's not forget that basic human rights and that everyone has the right to live. You may not feel like this is the case in more severe crimes but let's not forget that the amount of news articles which have been released after someone has been sentenced to death where new evidence has been discovered or brought up which proves that the prisoner was in fact innocent. Is this justice? Is the jury, court and executor now murderers too?

Finally, the argument that it will act as a deterrent for future cases. Well I think it's a common opinion that people feel that the death sentence is the 'easy' way out and making someone live with what they have done is more appropriate. Although this brings up the point of the physiological affects on the person who committed the crime and how that may affect them. So it might not actually act as a deterrent if someone knows they are going to die shortly after anyway. It could also be argued that it doesn't severe as a deterrent anyway due to the amount of crimes which have been committed since the death penalty has been abolished elsewhere in the world. 






[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1566563058
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566563058

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566563058
Reply with quote  #2

1566563058
Report to moderator
1566563058
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566563058

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566563058
Reply with quote  #2

1566563058
Report to moderator
1566563058
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566563058

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566563058
Reply with quote  #2

1566563058
Report to moderator
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 10, 2018, 12:15:57 AM
Merited by AverageGlabella (1)
 #2

I've been studying this subject recently and have had some heated discussions in the past about it with friends and the like. Recently though I've been looking at some polls which have been conducted and it seems that the vast majority of people actually agree with the death penalty. I think it would be interesting to have a discussion with the Bitcoin community on this as I tend to find that they are much more logical and open minded to things than the normal targeted audience that these polls are presented too. 

Quotes may be shorter than they are in sources to cut down on filler content and pick out the most important aspects.

According to the guardian[1] "China, Iran, North Korea, Yemen and the US carried out the most executions in 2012. At least 1,722 people were sentenced to death in 58 countries in 2012."

I think if we look at all the countries there the most surprising one would likely be the US. Iran which isn't on the greatest terms with American currently shares a common characteristic with America in terms of people getting sentenced to death. In fact according to this source between 2007-2012 America sentenced 504 people to death whilst Iran sentenced much less (156).

I'm not at all defending the approach that these countries take and aren't saying that 156 lives taken isn't worse/better than 504 as this is another debate and hard dilemma.  I personally feel that the death penalty should be abolished worldwide and I'll go on to list my counter arguments to common statements about why the death penalty should remain. Although I think it would be interesting if we could have an actual discussion about this and possibly my view point will change.

I feel that these are the major points people seem to come up with is either for revenge, justice, if the crime is severe enough or as a deterrent for future criminals.

First of all I don't understand why revenge is considered a good thing. In most major movies revenge is normally seen being done by the 'good' guys and is justified just because someone is the bad guy in the movie. Revenge doesn't gain you anything and the only thing you are actually doing is lowering yourself down to their level. In my opinion revenge should only be felt by those who are personally affected by the situation and shouldn't impact the public at all and therefore I feel this is a poor argument when it comes to an argument for pro death penalty.

A common argument that I see is that if the crime is severe enough such as murder then it's perfectly acceptable for ordering the death of someone. I fail to see the logic here and I would invite anyone that has this mindset to explain your reasoning. I think we can all agree that to take someones life is wrong and there's got to be something chemically wrong or what ever for you to carry out the act but this also applies to sentencing someone to death. You are literally supporting a system which will put yet another person to death. Let's not forget that basic human rights and that everyone has the right to live. You may not feel like this is the case in more severe crimes but let's not forget that the amount of news articles which have been released after someone has been sentenced to death where new evidence has been discovered or brought up which proves that the prisoner was in fact innocent. Is this justice? Is the jury, court and executor now murderers too?

Finally, the argument that it will act as a deterrent for future cases. Well I think it's a common opinion that people feel that the death sentence is the 'easy' way out and making someone live with what they have done is more appropriate. Although this brings up the point of the physiological affects on the person who committed the crime and how that may affect them. So it might not actually act as a deterrent if someone knows they are going to die shortly after anyway. It could also be argued that it doesn't severe as a deterrent anyway due to the amount of crimes which have been committed since the death penalty has been abolished elsewhere in the world. 






[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world

Capital punishment can be a good thing, but not when applied by corrupt entities based on unjust standards and lies. History has shown beyond a reasonable, that when applied correctly, it can serve as a pretty good deterrent. In addition, not all killings are murders.

There is by deliberate design very little sympathy left for the victims of murderers today. The status quo is to feed and cuddle the murderer and start a fan club - it is all about his/her/its feelings and welfare. It is the sign of a sick and decaying society that won't survive if people don't come to their senses. Yet, many deem it as advancement to a higher level... until they and their loved ones are tortured and murdered in cold blood themselves. If someone cares that much for them - and I am in reference to murderers, not people falsely accused of being murderers - then they should spend some quality time with them to get a grip on reality.
aleksej996
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 327


Do not trust the government


View Profile WWW
April 10, 2018, 10:54:02 AM
Merited by suchmoon (1)
 #3

I think you outline most arguments in your OP and address them.
It is a difficult question society needs to ask itself.

I don't think that death penalty acts as an efficient deterrent. Spending 30 or 40 years in jail, or even a life sentence, seems like a very good motivation to not commit a crime. I don't think that simply by adding more punishment we get better efficiency and I think statistics back this up.

Losing a person in our society, even if it is a criminal, still impacts us negatively. We benefit from every mind that is alive today, if for nothing else, to tell their story.

There is one type of situation where I am thinking that death penalty might be applicable and that is if a person in question really is so dangerous and competent to hurt others even if sent to high security prison. These situations are so rare however, so I don't think that this makes any significant impact on the decision.
AverageGlabella
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 369
Merit: 572


Thinking with average intent


View Profile
April 10, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
Merited by funsponge (1)
 #4


Capital punishment can be a good thing, but not when applied by corrupt entities based on unjust standards and lies. History has shown beyond a reasonable, that when applied correctly, it can serve as a pretty good deterrent. In addition, not all killings are murders.

There is by deliberate design very little sympathy left for the victims of murderers today. The status quo is to feed and cuddle the murderer and start a fan club - it is all about his/her/its feelings and welfare. It is the sign of a sick and decaying society that won't survive if people don't come to their senses. Yet, many deem it as advancement to a higher level... until they and their loved ones are tortured and murdered in cold blood themselves. If someone cares that much for them - and I am in reference to murderers, not people falsely accused of being murderers - then they should spend some quality time with them to get a grip on reality.

Are all killings wrong though? Even when wars are started many people argue that it's still wrong. I'm not sure I agree with this opinion but it is something to consider. That also begs the question when is it acceptable to kill another. You could argue self defense but only a minute amount of cases actually require lethal force to make sure you are the one to survive.

The thing is people are getting sentenced to death when they haven't committed the crime and it comes out years after they are executed. This should be avoided at all costs but the only way of going about this is by actually abolishing it. If we look at some of the prisons around the world especially in Panama etc then the welfare of highly dangerous criminals isn't really something which is looked at closely and they live in horrendous conditions. Being falsely accused of a crime is bad enough to be sentenced to death is something else.

I think you outline most arguments in your OP and address them.
It is a difficult question society needs to ask itself.

I don't think that death penalty acts as an efficient deterrent. Spending 30 or 40 years in jail, or even a life sentence, seems like a very good motivation to not commit a crime. I don't think that simply by adding more punishment we get better efficiency and I think statistics back this up.

Losing a person in our society, even if it is a criminal, still impacts us negatively. We benefit from every mind that is alive today, if for nothing else, to tell their story.

There is one type of situation where I am thinking that death penalty might be applicable and that is if a person in question really is so dangerous and competent to hurt others even if sent to high security prison. These situations are so rare however, so I don't think that this makes any significant impact on the decision.
I would have to agree that a life sentence should be enough of a deterrent. Especially if you are in a maximum security prison. There's been studies on the effect of prison on innocent people who were falsely put in there and how it lead them down a dangerous physiological state so when people say doing time is easy then studies have shown otherwise.

I'm guessing you are referring to serial killers which are with out a down guilty. I'm not sure that a death sentence is still warranted though. Could you imagine living with yourself in a 4 wall cell with only your thoughts even if you were put into a cell for an experiment it would drive you to insanity.

paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 10, 2018, 10:40:43 PM
 #5


Capital punishment can be a good thing, but not when applied by corrupt entities based on unjust standards and lies. History has shown beyond a reasonable, that when applied correctly, it can serve as a pretty good deterrent. In addition, not all killings are murders.

There is by deliberate design very little sympathy left for the victims of murderers today. The status quo is to feed and cuddle the murderer and start a fan club - it is all about his/her/its feelings and welfare. It is the sign of a sick and decaying society that won't survive if people don't come to their senses. Yet, many deem it as advancement to a higher level... until they and their loved ones are tortured and murdered in cold blood themselves. If someone cares that much for them - and I am in reference to murderers, not people falsely accused of being murderers - then they should spend some quality time with them to get a grip on reality.

Are all killings wrong though? Even when wars are started many people argue that it's still wrong. I'm not sure I agree with this opinion but it is something to consider. That also begs the question when is it acceptable to kill another. You could argue self defense but only a minute amount of cases actually require lethal force to make sure you are the one to survive.

The thing is people are getting sentenced to death when they haven't committed the crime and it comes out years after they are executed. This should be avoided at all costs but the only way of going about this is by actually abolishing it. If we look at some of the prisons around the world especially in Panama etc then the welfare of highly dangerous criminals isn't really something which is looked at closely and they live in horrendous conditions. Being falsely accused of a crime is bad enough to be sentenced to death is something else.


As I've stated, "not all killings are murders" - murder constitutes an unjustified killing. Wars are tricky, but if one participates in a war for all the wrong reasons - and kills others in an offensive manner based on deceit and lies - then it boils down to murder. However, if one refuses to fight in a war, but is dragged into war by being attacked while being in a peaceful state - then defending oneself and one's loved ones by killing others in respond cannot be seen as murder.

In addition, yes, mistakes are made in terms of giving innocent people a death sentence, but should we ban all cars because of accidents on the road? I think not. And a life sentence places a burden on society. Just imagine, I murder someone, which constitutes a death sentence on that person without due process, and then society has to provide accommodation, feed me, etc. It is certainly not fair. If one takes another person's life in an unjust manner, then that act should automatically cancels one's right to life.

Now of course, in instances where one is not dealing with a hard-core murderer, the person confesses and show true remorse - hard labor and a long prison sentence could help toward rehabilitation. If the accused is too weak and/or not willing to work, then he/she must face capital punishment. It sounds harsh, but you want something that serves as a strong deterrent.

On the other hand, if I am accused of murder and receives capital punishment - and it came out later that I was innocent, then those who falsely accused me must face capital punishment themselves. Justice must be served either way.

The problem today is that murderers have more rights than their victims. It is absolutely insane.


TheGodson
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 360
Merit: 160


--->*>*>*> www.earnthosebitcoin.com <*<*<*<--


View Profile
April 11, 2018, 09:01:00 AM
Merited by suchmoon (1), funsponge (1)
 #6

Is a life in prison that much better than dying?

Who says that justice or revenge is such a bad thing? There are some people that claim certain virtues are primitive and that we as humans must learn to overcome our emotions. Who can prove that they don't matter? It is my opinion that a lot of what people decide is moral, is rooted in our emotions. People like to think we are logical beings, but emotions are the true building blocks of our perception of morality.

The death penalty gives justice for family members. Knowing that the murderer is still alive out there is unsettling even if that person is behind bars. For the people that are sent to prison for less severe crimes, they can develop some of the bad habits of worse criminals. I heard somewhere that prison is basically crime school. If you spend time in prison you learn how to become a better criminal. You hang around bad people enough and you'll turn bad too. It is a psychological thing, you become who you hang around. Also it is one less person for your taxes to cover. I know that sounds callous, but it is true.

When I think about people individually I can sometimes empathize with people facing the death penalty and how much that would suck. Systematically it makes sense to establish it though when you think about the whole scheme of things.

My opinion on the death penalty isn't too strong, but I've weaned on the side of for it rather than against it.
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 09:45:04 AM
 #7

Is a life in prison that much better than dying?

Who says that justice or revenge is such a bad thing? There are some people that claim certain virtues are primitive and that we as humans must learn to overcome our emotions. Who can prove that they don't matter? It is my opinion that a lot of what people decide is moral, is rooted in our emotions. People like to think we are logical beings, but emotions are the true building blocks of our perception of morality.

The death penalty gives justice for family members. Knowing that the murderer is still alive out there is unsettling even if that person is behind bars. For the people that are sent to prison for less severe crimes, they can develop some of the bad habits of worse criminals. I heard somewhere that prison is basically crime school. If you spend time in prison you learn how to become a better criminal. You hang around bad people enough and you'll turn bad too. It is a psychological thing, you become who you hang around. Also it is one less person for your taxes to cover. I know that sounds callous, but it is true.

When I think about people individually I can sometimes empathize with people facing the death penalty and how much that would suck. Systematically it makes sense to establish it though when you think about the whole scheme of things.

My opinion on the death penalty isn't too strong, but I've weaned on the side of for it rather than against it.

I couldn't agree more. If I was a murderer, I would rather choose death than life in prison, especially if it comes with hard labor. Not that I am not used to hard labor, but to have to perform it day in and day out under such conditions will certainly not be a walk in the park. Besides that, I am claustrophobic to some extent. In addition, I would refuse to be a burden on society. They either remove me from the equation or I most likely would have done it myself - after pleading guilty and giving the exact version of events, so that the families and people affected can have at least some comfort.
o_e_l_e_o
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 2554



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3), funsponge (2), AverageGlabella (2), suchmoon (1)
 #8

Let's ignore the emotional arguments for a few minutes (feelings of justice, revenge, etc.) and look solely at the factual arguments.

There is no evidence the death penalty reduces crime



According to FBI statistics, the homicide rate has consistently been higher in US states with the death penalty vs those without. Whilst we have to be careful not to suggest that correlation equals causation, the National Research Council report on the matter states "research to date on the effect of capital punishment on homicide rates is not useful in determining whether the death penalty increases, decreases, or has no effect on these rates."

The death penalty is more expensive than life in prison

"A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000)."

"In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty."

Source: https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/

The death penalty kills innocent people

Over 60 innocent people have either been wrongfully executed or released from death row in the US alone. And that's without even touching on the controversy of executing people with mental illness who may not even understand their crime, let alone the punishment.

In summary, you have a system that doesn't work, costs more, and kills innocents. There is no question that it should be abolished.
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 01:53:30 PM
 #9

Let's ignore the emotional arguments for a few minutes (feelings of justice, revenge, etc.) and look solely at the factual arguments.

There is no evidence the death penalty reduces crime



According to FBI statistics, the homicide rate has consistently been higher in US states with the death penalty vs those without. Whilst we have to be careful not to suggest that correlation equals causation, the National Research Council report on the matter states "research to date on the effect of capital punishment on homicide rates is not useful in determining whether the death penalty increases, decreases, or has no effect on these rates."

The death penalty is more expensive than life in prison

"A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000)."

"In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty."

Source: https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/

The death penalty kills innocent people

Over 60 innocent people have either been wrongfully executed or released from death row in the US alone. And that's without even touching on the controversy of executing people with mental illness who may not even understand their crime, let alone the punishment.

In summary, you have a system that doesn't work, costs more, and kills innocents. There is no question that it should be abolished.

Data can easily be manipulated in the form of stats to support both ends. Like emotions, it cannot be used in support of factual arguments. Any honest statistician will tell you that this is the case.
o_e_l_e_o
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 2554



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 02:07:53 PM
 #10

Data can easily be manipulated in the form of stats to support both ends. Like emotions, it cannot be used in support of factual arguments. Any honest statistician will tell you that this is the case.

Sure, data can be manipulated, misreported and misrepresented, but you can't write off all data as non-factual, otherwise we would never have advanced past the bronze age.

If you have data that disprove any of my claims, I'd be keen to see them.
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 03:11:11 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #11

Data can easily be manipulated in the form of stats to support both ends. Like emotions, it cannot be used in support of factual arguments. Any honest statistician will tell you that this is the case.

Sure, data can be manipulated, misreported and misrepresented, but you can't write off all data as non-factual, otherwise we would never have advanced past the bronze age.

If you have data that disprove any of my claims, I'd be keen to see them.

I was specifically in reference to the manipulation of data via stats. Sorry for any confusion, but I was not trying to say that data cannot be used to support factual arguments.

It is a misnomer to suggest that the aim of the death penalty is to reduce crime in general. The aim is to serve as a deterrent when it comes to murder, and perhaps most importantly, to make sure that a murderer doesn't have a chance to re-offend. In addition, there are various other factors beside capital punishment that play a roll when it comes to these matters - and it differ from state to state, country to country, etc.

Furthermore, if it is true that the "death penalty is more expensive than life in prison," then they're clearly going about it in the wrong way. And when you look at the data, you will see that not all murderers receive the death penalty in states that support it - only a small percentage. They've become too soft with them.

The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?" E.g. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7147662/Killers-freed-to-kill-again.html In my personal experience in terms of where I am in the world, enough to have the death penalty re-instated.

It is also shocking to see how many who received a life sentence are already back on the streets. E.g. https://nypost.com/2013/04/28/record-number-of-killers-and-rapists-being-released-from-upstate-prisons-many-returning-to-nyc/ Scroll down on that page to see who we are dealing with... evil scum that I will not think twice to take out myself.

o_e_l_e_o
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 2554



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 06:49:18 PM
 #12

I was specifically in reference to the manipulation of data via stats. Sorry for any confusion, but I was not trying to say that data cannot be used to support factual arguments.

My mistake.

I agree with most of the rest of what you have written. However, although its aim is to serve as a deterrent, the data suggest that it does not achieve this aim (assuming the validity of the data in the absence of any counter-evidence).

I agree the price is ridiculous, but it is what it is. Even the price of long-term incarceration is ridiculous, as is the price of anything when it is run privately and for-profit (see: healthcare).

And again I completely agree that life sentences can be a joke now, with murderers being released for "good behaviour" after serving only a fraction of their sentence. If you received a life sentence, in my opinion, you should be incarcerated until you die, and therefore cut the re-offending rate to zero.

However, I can agree with all those points and still disagree with the death penalty for the reasons I have stated before. It does not act as a deterrent any more than incarceration does, it is grossly more expensive, and it kills innocent people.
AverageGlabella
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 369
Merit: 572


Thinking with average intent


View Profile
April 11, 2018, 08:08:27 PM
Merited by theyoungmillionaire (1)
 #13

conditions. Being falsely accused of a crime is bad enough to be sentenced to death is something else. [/b]

As I've stated, "not all killings are murders" - murder constitutes an unjustified killing. Wars are tricky, but if one participates in a war for all the wrong reasons - and kills others in an offensive manner based on deceit and lies - then it boils down to murder. However, if one refuses to fight in a war, but is dragged into war by being attacked while being in a peaceful state - then defending oneself and one's loved ones by killing others in respond cannot be seen as murder.

In addition, yes, mistakes are made in terms of giving innocent people a death sentence, but should we ban all cars because of accidents on the road? I think not. And a life sentence places a burden on society. Just imagine, I murder someone, which constitutes a death sentence on that person without due process, and then society has to provide accommodation, feed me, etc. It is certainly not fair. If one takes another person's life in an unjust manner, then that act should automatically cancels one's right to life.

Now of course, in instances where one is not dealing with a hard-core murderer, the person confesses and show true remorse - hard labor and a long prison sentence could help toward rehabilitation. If the accused is too weak and/or not willing to work, then he/she must face capital punishment. It sounds harsh, but you want something that serves as a strong deterrent.

On the other hand, if I am accused of murder and receives capital punishment - and it came out later that I was innocent, then those who falsely accused me must face capital punishment themselves. Justice must be served either way.

The problem today is that murderers have more rights than their victims. It is absolutely insane.



Are all wars justified? Quite often governments go to war with other countries out of greed and it's an attack on their country rather than trying to save it's population. The only time that war was justified in recent times was the world war. People wanted to fight for their country because their family and country was under direct threat. The middle east war that the USA and UK have been involved in was iffy at best

With your statement about capital punishment being falsely accused and then giving capital punishment to those who falsely accused you is that the best approach? Give this scenario you were falsely accused and executed on the belief that you committed the crime. New evidence comes up that the person who accused you did it falsely. So let's execute them. Oh wait new evidence appears to have debunked that the person falsely accused you.

There we have it. No justice what so ever. Everyone involved in the case has now been executed. Only their families are left to grieve. This actually happens quite regular in minor cases (not murder) although it's not completely bonkers to assume that this could well happen and may of happened in the past.
Berfikirlah
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 139
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2018, 01:26:10 PM
 #14

My opinion about the death penalty is, I agree because the person who has committed a crime despite saying will soon repent I am sure one day will repeat the same mistake for example stealing a gold shop and killing the shop owner, I think the death penalty is appropriate to be given to the suspect, but if the death penalty was given to someone who stole my neighbor's banana I think the death penalty is not appropriate. I think the death penalty is only appropriate for people who are criminals such as killing and threatening the lives of others.
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 14, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
 #15

Another approach: We get to record our choice on a blockchain in terms of whether we support capital punishment or not - A or B:

A. I support capital punishment - If I or one of my dependents get murdered, the one(s) found guilty in a court of law must receive capital punishment.

B. I don't support capital punishment - If I or one of my dependents get murdered, the one(s) found guilty in a court of law must not receive capital punishment.

This way all parties involved will get what they want on a case-to-case basis. The authorities will know how to handle each individual case. It could form part of Last Will and Testaments.

Ginzink
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 118


Forex and Crypto Direct-Hedge Fund


View Profile
April 15, 2018, 06:09:57 AM
 #16

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4
paulmaritz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 270



View Profile
April 15, 2018, 10:43:11 AM
 #17

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4

And what about all the innocent people who are getting murdered? Should that alone not be enough to have the death penalty?
o_e_l_e_o
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 2554



View Profile
April 15, 2018, 04:35:04 PM
 #18

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4

And what about all the innocent people who are getting murdered? Should that alone not be enough to have the death penalty?

Punishing someone with the death penalty won't undo their crimes, and as I mentioned before, there is no evidence that it is a deterrent to future crimes.
joms123
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 7


View Profile
April 16, 2018, 12:19:57 AM
Merited by funsponge (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #19

I've been studying this subject recently and have had some heated discussions in the past about it with friends and the like. Recently though I've been looking at some polls which have been conducted and it seems that the vast majority of people actually agree with the death penalty. I think it would be interesting to have a discussion with the Bitcoin community on this as I tend to find that they are much more logical and open minded to things than the normal targeted audience that these polls are presented too. 

Quotes may be shorter than they are in sources to cut down on filler content and pick out the most important aspects.

According to the guardian[1] "China, Iran, North Korea, Yemen and the US carried out the most executions in 2012. At least 1,722 people were sentenced to death in 58 countries in 2012."

I think if we look at all the countries there the most surprising one would likely be the US. Iran which isn't on the greatest terms with American currently shares a common characteristic with America in terms of people getting sentenced to death. In fact according to this source between 2007-2012 America sentenced 504 people to death whilst Iran sentenced much less (156).

I'm not at all defending the approach that these countries take and aren't saying that 156 lives taken isn't worse/better than 504 as this is another debate and hard dilemma.  I personally feel that the death penalty should be abolished worldwide and I'll go on to list my counter arguments to common statements about why the death penalty should remain. Although I think it would be interesting if we could have an actual discussion about this and possibly my view point will change.

I feel that these are the major points people seem to come up with is either for revenge, justice, if the crime is severe enough or as a deterrent for future criminals.

First of all I don't understand why revenge is considered a good thing. In most major movies revenge is normally seen being done by the 'good' guys and is justified just because someone is the bad guy in the movie. Revenge doesn't gain you anything and the only thing you are actually doing is lowering yourself down to their level. In my opinion revenge should only be felt by those who are personally affected by the situation and shouldn't impact the public at all and therefore I feel this is a poor argument when it comes to an argument for pro death penalty.

A common argument that I see is that if the crime is severe enough such as murder then it's perfectly acceptable for ordering the death of someone. I fail to see the logic here and I would invite anyone that has this mindset to explain your reasoning. I think we can all agree that to take someones life is wrong and there's got to be something chemically wrong or what ever for you to carry out the act but this also applies to sentencing someone to death. You are literally supporting a system which will put yet another person to death. Let's not forget that basic human rights and that everyone has the right to live. You may not feel like this is the case in more severe crimes but let's not forget that the amount of news articles which have been released after someone has been sentenced to death where new evidence has been discovered or brought up which proves that the prisoner was in fact innocent. Is this justice? Is the jury, court and executor now murderers too?

Finally, the argument that it will act as a deterrent for future cases. Well I think it's a common opinion that people feel that the death sentence is the 'easy' way out and making someone live with what they have done is more appropriate. Although this brings up the point of the physiological affects on the person who committed the crime and how that may affect them. So it might not actually act as a deterrent if someone knows they are going to die shortly after anyway. It could also be argued that it doesn't severe as a deterrent anyway due to the amount of crimes which have been committed since the death penalty has been abolished elsewhere in the world. 






[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world

My opinion is Mixed.

I recognize that the state has the authority to administer the death penalty. I have no problem with this, “in principal”. However, it is poorly administered and does not perform it’s function well if at all.

It is also vastly expensive as presently conducted.

I recognize that there are seriously bad people who will remain a danger to society for all their lives. Incarcerating them in inhuman conditions (like the “Supermax” prison) for life seems far more inhumane than execution.

At the same time, I recognize that many of these really bad people are insane, and that this mitigates to some degree their level of responsibility. Unfortunately, we have no reliable way to treat such people at this time.

The death penalty is inequitably administered. Everyone knows this. If you are poor and/or a minority, you are vastly more likely to be given “death” than if you are wealthy/white.

That’s unacceptable.

Additionally, programs like “the innocence project” have proved that many people presently on death row were in fact innocent and had been improperly convicted, either by incompetent representation, faulty evidence, jury bias, or prosecutorial malfeasance. (withholding exculpatory evidence, not putting contrary witnesses on the stand…)

That’s horrifying.

Our state just executed a fellow who had been on death row for 30 years. 30 years… Waiting to be executed.

Finally, the stated purpose of the death penalty is deterrence. That the prospect of being exeted will deter people from committing serious crimes. It doesn’t. Death-penalty crimes are committed either in a state of rage, or under the influence of psychosis, or due to long-standing pschological or psychiatric conditions.

There has not been any evidence shown (to my knowledge) that the death penalty provides any such deterrance. Instead, what it provides is vengeance. “Closure” as we so euphemistically say these days.
TheGodson
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 360
Merit: 160


--->*>*>*> www.earnthosebitcoin.com <*<*<*<--


View Profile
April 16, 2018, 08:40:59 AM
 #20

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4

Norwegian prisons are super nice. If there is any place in the world to commit a crime this is the place. Norway definitely has a different atmosphere than in the US.

Sounds kind of nice, but on another level it seems pretty messed up. Imagine some crazy dude comes into your house and murders your entire family. You happen to be out at the time so you don't get killed. The murder is then sent to a paradise campus for 25 years. That would really feel like... lack of "closure".
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!