The Bitcoin router

[revans]

I present a solution to the problem of increasing hash power centralisation.

The Bitcoin router is a device which replaces the standard broadband router. In addition to the usual hardware it contains a dedicated low power ASIC and the necessary software to interface with the Bitcoin network. Given the always-on nature of routers, the hash power provided would be persistent . In lieu of mining rewards (because of the low hash power per device) there could be what would amount to a Bitcoin lottery in which a pool of Bitcoins is rewarded to a Bitcoin router node (size of rewards and number would be determined by size of Bitcoin router mining pool)

[Melbustus]

I present a solution to the problem of increasing hash power centralisation.

The Bitcoin router is a device which replaces the standard broadband router. In addition to the usual hardware it contains a dedicated low power ASIC and the necessary software to interface with the Bitcoin network. Given the always-on nature of routers, the hash power provided would be persistent . In lieu of mining rewards (because of the low hash power per device) there could be what would amount to a Bitcoin lottery in which a pool of Bitcoins is rewarded to a Bitcoin router node (size of rewards and number would be determined by size of Bitcoin router mining pool)

ASIC-in-router is an interesting idea. Been discussed here before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266761.0

[crazy_rabbit]

I mentioned this At the London conference a few years back. Commodity companies producing things like TV sets or home routers with asics built in. The bitcoin generated could offset your utility bills for example.

[revans]

I mentioned this At the London conference a few years back. Commodity companies producing things like TV sets or home routers with asics built in. The bitcoin generated could offset your utility bills for example.

The lottery aspect I thought up is because the hardware would be left behind by newer ASIC hardware in dedicated devices, and a pro rata reward would not likely be any kind of incentive.

[cypherdoc]

while embedding an asic within a router is definitely a great idea, the economics of how you proposed it are probably unworkable.

you'd be better off just looking at it as a low power mining device much like the USB miners available now.  have all these routers pointed at the pool of their choice mining away.  

other ways to monetize a router based asic would be to make them anonymized Tor nodes that get paid by the amount of band width offered as this is what the Tor network desperately needs and would make the Bitcoin network all that much more useful and desirable.  also, allowing these nodes to form a mesh network where passerby's could tap into the network for routine internet access or to perform BTC tx's would be icing on the cake.

wow, a Bitcoin Bear proposing such a bullish idea.  is Bitcoin bigger than we think?!

[mprep]

The idea is interesting but not really practical. You'd still be using more power than running a router without it. Also, low power ASICs are no longer profitable. Making a router with the ability to connect an ASIC miner - that would be useful. It would replace running a desktop computer or other similar device such as Raspberry PI.

[Seccour]

The idea is interesting but not really practical. You'd still be using more power than running a router without it. Also, low power ASICs are no longer profitable. Making a router with the ability to connect an ASIC miner - that would be useful. It would replace running a desktop computer or other similar device such as Raspberry PI.

Don't always think about profit. It's can be a good idea for a secure network.

[inform]

i am this interest

[revans]

while embedding an asic within a router is definitely a great idea, the economics of how you proposed it are probably unworkable.

you'd be better off just looking at it as a low power mining device much like the USB miners available now.  have all these routers pointed at the pool of their choice mining away.  

other ways to monetize a router based asic would be to make them anonymized Tor nodes that get paid by the amount of band width offered as this is what the Tor network desperately needs and would make the Bitcoin network all that much more useful and desirable.  also, allowing these nodes to form a mesh network where passerby's could tap into the network for routine internet access or to perform BTC tx's would be icing on the cake.

wow, a Bitcoin Bear proposing such a bullish idea.  is Bitcoin bigger than we think?!

Still bearish. I think there is a significant risk that the manipulated price action (my contention is that the exchanges are marching the price up with false trades) and the inevitable collapse will damage Bitcoin and the entire cryptocurrency concept irrevocably. That's for another thread though.

[cypherdoc]

The idea is interesting but not really practical. You'd still be using more power than running a router without it. Also, low power ASICs are no longer profitable. Making a router with the ability to connect an ASIC miner - that would be useful. It would replace running a desktop computer or other similar device such as Raspberry PI.

This already exists in essence.

You can plug an Avalon directly into your router and mine though it has an internal router that acts like a controller.

Also, psheppard  made an implementation of cgminer that installed directly onto a router that allowed direct gpu mining. I don't know whether he's made an asic implementation of that.

[pand70]

Don't always think about profit. It's can be a good idea for a secure network.

Let me guess... You bought usb miners from ASICMINER 

[mprep]

The idea is interesting but not really practical. You'd still be using more power than running a router without it. Also, low power ASICs are no longer profitable. Making a router with the ability to connect an ASIC miner - that would be useful. It would replace running a desktop computer or other similar device such as Raspberry PI.

This already exists in essence.

You can plug an Avalon directly into your router and mine though it has an internal router that acts like a controller.

Also, psheppard  made an implementation of cgminer that installed directly onto a router that allowed direct gpu mining. I don't know whether he's made an asic implementation of that.

It would be better that the complete package: the hardware, the software and the configuration, would be set up in a partially consumer friendly way, instead of googling absolutely everything and still understanding nothing.

[Seccour]

Don't always think about profit. It's can be a good idea for a secure network.

Let me guess... You bought usb miners from ASICMINER 

Nop ^^

[danneu]

I present a solution to the problem of increasing hash power centralisation.

The Bitcoin router is a device which replaces the standard broadband router. In addition to the usual hardware it contains a dedicated low power ASIC and the necessary software to interface with the Bitcoin network. Given the always-on nature of routers, the hash power provided would be persistent . In lieu of mining rewards (because of the low hash power per device) there could be what would amount to a Bitcoin lottery in which a pool of Bitcoins is rewarded to a Bitcoin router node (size of rewards and number would be determined by size of Bitcoin router mining pool)

Who is going to run this router mining pool that gives the entire block reward away to a random node that had a pool efficacy approaching zero?

I think it's a good idea to brainstorm ways for people to incidentally/passively support the network without running a fat client on their laptop.

But I can't imagine any other way to position this particular idea beyond "use a bitcoin router to help out the network!" - at which point the significance of embedding it in a router instead of a toaster is that it's already connected to the internet.

Instead this would be a better opportunity to offer some interesting features in a router, like allowing people to buy wifi access-time with bitcoins.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I mentioned this At the London conference a few years back. Commodity companies producing things like TV sets or home routers with asics built in. The bitcoin generated could offset your utility bills for example.

An alternate version of this would be quite the scandal.

Some OEM puts a low powered low output (say 28nm die shrink of bitfury) chip on say a HDTV, or Bluray player, or set top box.  These devices more and more are designed for internet connectivity.  Covertly the device mines using the customers electricity.  Now 1 28nm Bitfury (guestimate 8 GH/s) might not be much but imagine it in say 30 million HDTVs (or game consoles, or STBs).


Still I think a router w/ miner is an interesting idea.  The reality is that a single one would generate negligible revenue but it could be used in a charity/donation type setup.  Imagine the EFF (or some other non profit but EFF given their focus would be a good fit) had a EFF co-branded router (obviously made by some Chinese OEM like any other router) with a low powered mining ASIC.  The router was designed to direct all revenue to EFF "donation pool".  The router could show how much this individual router and all routers combine help the EFF and how much they decentralize the network.

[revans]

I present a solution to the problem of increasing hash power centralisation.

The Bitcoin router is a device which replaces the standard broadband router. In addition to the usual hardware it contains a dedicated low power ASIC and the necessary software to interface with the Bitcoin network. Given the always-on nature of routers, the hash power provided would be persistent . In lieu of mining rewards (because of the low hash power per device) there could be what would amount to a Bitcoin lottery in which a pool of Bitcoins is rewarded to a Bitcoin router node (size of rewards and number would be determined by size of Bitcoin router mining pool)

Who is going to run this router mining pool that gives the entire block reward away to a random node that had a pool efficacy approaching zero?

I think it's a good idea to brainstorm ways for people to incidentally/passively support the network without running a fat client on their laptop.

But I can't imagine any other way to position this particular idea beyond "use a bitcoin router to help out the network!" - at which point the significance of embedding it in a router instead of a toaster is that it's already connected to the internet.

Instead this would be a better opportunity to offer some interesting features in a router, like allowing people to buy wifi access-time with bitcoins.

Conceptually the idea to premium bonds, a scheme in the UK in which the bond interest is placed into a prize pool.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Who is going to run this router mining pool that gives the entire block reward away to a random node that had a pool efficacy approaching zero?

It would have to be that complicated.  A large reason why the IO on a pool server is so high is that miners want low variance and and real time stats (i.e. thousand if not millions of low difficulty shares).  In a setup like this the node isn't really a "money maker" and the work load can be much lower.  With ntime rolling it is very possible that the pool server would only need to provide a single work unit per router per block.  Likewise for the "lottery" you don't need routers to return a lot of shares.  The share difficulty can be set relatively high such that a router may only return 1 share a week.  The pool would convert 1 share (and only 1 any excess shares rollover to cover variance in future weeks) per week per router into a ticket and lottery off the week's proceeds.  The router would advise the user if they won (maybe even a blinking Bitcoin LED).

The load on the pool server can be reduced to a negligible amount.  Per router it would be roughly 1 WU issued per block, and 1 high difficulty share to verify per router per week (or maybe day for lower variance).  If the pool could maintain 0.1% of the network hashrate it would on average solve one block per week.

Still I think this type of setup makes more sense in a donation/charity model.  Buy a cobranded router from your favorite non-profit, plug it in and collectively help the non-profit raise revenue.