Bitcoin at the US Senate

[solex]

See my topic, What if Gov puts the Dollar and Bitcoin on the Silver Standard, 1 to 1?, at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333424.0.

That' can't happen,read the replies.

Right, but they can peg the dollar to Bitcoin.  Just show them of a graph of how the dollar has been extremely volatile against Bitcoin and suggest that pegging the dollar to Bitcoin would eliminate that.

Are you being sarcastic?
Or are you no longer the Milly from 6 months ago who actually knew a lot of stuff?

[1714800379]

1714800379

[justusranvier]

Right, but they can peg the dollar to Bitcoin.  Just show them of a graph of how the dollar has been extremely volatile against Bitcoin and suggest that pegging the dollar to Bitcoin would eliminate that.

Are you being sarcastic?
Or are you no longer the Milly from 6 months ago who actually knew a lot of stuff?

I choose to interpret that comment, not as something that would be successful, but rather as a suggestion for something that would be hilarious to watch them attempt.

[solex]

Right, but they can peg the dollar to Bitcoin.  Just show them of a graph of how the dollar has been extremely volatile against Bitcoin and suggest that pegging the dollar to Bitcoin would eliminate that.

Are you being sarcastic?
Or are you no longer the Milly from 6 months ago who actually knew a lot of stuff?

I choose to interpret that comment, not as something that would be successful, but rather as a suggestion for something that would be hilarious to watch them attempt.

Indeed. But I can't see that being HELPful, which is the point of this thread.

[Lauda]

Right, but they can peg the dollar to Bitcoin.  Just show them of a graph of how the dollar has been extremely volatile against Bitcoin and suggest that pegging the dollar to Bitcoin would eliminate that.

Are you being sarcastic?
Or are you no longer the Milly from 6 months ago who actually knew a lot of stuff?

I choose to interpret that comment, not as something that would be successful, but rather as a suggestion for something that would be hilarious to watch them attempt.

Indeed. But I can't see that being HELPful, which is the point of this thread.

Neither can I. Not sure why he said it.

[Rassah]

See my topic, What if Gov puts the Dollar and Bitcoin on the Silver Standard, 1 to 1?, at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333424.0.

That' can't happen,read the replies.

Right, but they can peg the dollar to Bitcoin.  Just show them of a graph of how the dollar has been extremely volatile against Bitcoin and suggest that pegging the dollar to Bitcoin would eliminate that.

You're right. If both the Bitcoin and the Dollar fluctuate wildly at the same time, no one will be able to tell that bitcoins are fluctuating in value, and everything will stabilize  Maybe I should suggest that during Tuesday's Banking meting.

[oakpacific]

From the Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/11/13/sanitizing-bitcoin-coin-validation/):

In the short term, they talk about a limited database that keeps track only of registered identities and their activities with participating companies, but it’s obvious that their ambitions are grander and that a longer term prospect is to take advantage of the transparency of the Bitcoin system to keep track of which Bitcoin is tainted by associations with black markets. Waters says that the development of that aspect will depend on “community feedback".

This is the kind of disaster we're trying to warn you about. How long will it be before pressure is brought to bear on core developers to make coin tainting part of the core software?
In a global network, who gets to decide which coins are tainted?

Please do not cooperate with this, it will be the end of Bitcoin.

Possessing money and transferring money should never have been made a crime. That act was the beginning of limitless government power over free speech and free enterprise.

Good thing we have CoinJoin, DarkWallet, and some future wallet integration to look forward to. Oh, and other bitcoin-using countries that don't give a crap about this.

I fervently hope you're right. The CoinJoin idea won't be helpful in the true nightmare scenario (which is pretty much described in the article): only greenlisted addresses can be used to buy goods and services in the USA (and in this scenario, also the EU, Russia, China and everywhere there's a decent sized economy). At this point Bitcoin would just die out as it would be offering little or nothing of interest (the greenlisting functioning as the third party, which collects fees etc, and who knows how long 'limited supply' would last). If people still saw the value in a blockchain they would just make government controlled ones.

On balance, my crystal ball says that outcome is very unlikely. But that's what the powers that be are going to be pressing for. The international part of the argument is the only thing keeping me optimistic. But think of it this way: such actions will not only dramatically suppress the growth of the Bitcoin economy, but also make all of us trying to keep using it feel like criminals.

You are saying that they can manage to get everyone selling something online licensed?

Then their next step could be shutting down the internet.

[Alpaca Bob]

US Senate needs to understand two important things.

1. Bitcoin is not American. This essentially means that the US can choose to welcome innovation and join the crypto-party. Silicon Valley will in this case probably replace Wall Street as the most influential industry in the world. Surely some members of the panel will not hate this idea. (Elizabeth Warren is in it, right?)

Or, alternatively, they can watch how the US becomes excluded from a brand new Eurasian centred digital economy.

2. Bitcoin can be forked. This essentially means that the US can either choose to welcome bitcoin as it is, and accept the a-political and neutral nature of it.

Or, alternatively, they can watch how they become excluded from a brand new Eurasian centred digital economy.

All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

[UncleBobs]

They can't understand it themselves like the member here did?

A significant percentage of Bitcoin users don't understand Bitcoin, let alone the masses who haven't even tried.

Yet I do. This means that I'm smarter than the members of the US Senate, correct?

I'm afraid so...

On the other hand, perhaps this epitomizes the Dunning-Krugerrand attitude of a significant percentage of Bitcoin users.  "I have spent  hundreds of hours learning about Bitcoin, so I'm smarter than anyone who hasn't".  No, you're not. 

The idea that you are smarter than anyone in the Senate will only lead you to underestimate them.   

[dscotese]

One thing I think Patrick should say at the hearing, as brazenly as he can muster, is this:

Thank you for giving The Bitcoin Foundation some influence over the government coercion that could profit us all handsomely.

Then, if he or the Foundation or both can find the wisdom in it, explain that such a plan is immoral and the Foundation has no interest in following it, and then leave.  A review of Voluntaryism might help.

The Economic Policy Journal mentioned this hearing, and I added a comment to the discussion there:

"Notice the hearing title: "Beyond Silk Road"---a very direct linkage between Bitcoin and illegal activities. Not good."

Let's challenge that directly.  What DPR was doing is *foolishly* viewed by many as immoral, and it is NOT immoral.  He was providing people with a way to break laws that are destructive, harmful, and horrible.  DPR was doing things (for the most part) that were healing our world, not harming it.  The real criminals are those who appropriate money from citizens (taxes) and pay thugs (called "police") with it to violate the rights of people who are ignoring stupid rules that were invented by elected officials to protect corporations.

The fact that most people don't see government as the largest institution of organized crime makes the author's statement true on one level - if we're just going to sit back and lament about it. But if we're going to talk to people about these issues, it provides a great opportunity to help rid our species of the parasite people call "government."

I read through this entire thread hoping to see some folks touch on this, and I think a few did, a little bit - waxwing and marcus_of_augustus - maybe a few others.  Well done, sirs.

On another issue, I think G Edward Griffin is onto something when he suggests that the most important thing for people to consider is whether the collective or the individual is more important.  For some people, because they are weak, stupid, evil, psychotic, or some combination of these things, the collective is more important.  As individuals, they would be quickly ostracized and abandoned by everyone else.  However, if they're smart enough, they will kick ass for good people until they get themselves into positions of "authority," at which point they will subtly, secretly, twist things around so that instead of helping others, they are cannibalizing them.  That's what government is.  Google "Stefan Molyneux" for more info on that.

The "foundation" is a step both toward cooperation which is excellent, and toward collectivism, which is horrible.  Some have "accused" the foundation of working for the interests of its members rather than the whole community, and this accusation embodies the evil of collectivism.  If they worked for the community rather than themselves, they would eventually lose interest and resent the community.  Bitcoin is great because it allows individuals to flourish on their own individual level or within whatever group they want to join.  Cooperation is nice, but when people start expecting a cooperative group to sacrifice, they are promoting evil.

So... is the senate paying the Bitcoin Foundation for the education, or have they (once again) bamboozled otherwise bright people into providing services for free based on the illusion that they provide some kind of value to society?

Has anyone heard of "The Bitcoin Council"?  How about "The Bitcoin Collective" or "The Bitcoin Society"?  I think we need to found those as well as several other groups.

[Kouye]

Has anyone heard of "The Bitcoin Council"?  How about "The Bitcoin Collective" or "The Bitcoin Society"?  I think we need to found those as well as several other groups.

I actually just learnt there were other "bitcoin foundations" in europe, for example.
http://www.danskbitcoinforening.dk/ is one of them.

[Lauda]

Has anyone heard of "The Bitcoin Council"?  How about "The Bitcoin Collective" or "The Bitcoin Society"?  I think we need to found those as well as several other groups.

I actually just learnt there were other "bitcoin foundations" in europe, for example.
http://www.danskbitcoinforening.dk/ is one of them.

How can there be more foundations?

[ineedit]

Has anyone heard of "The Bitcoin Council"?  How about "The Bitcoin Collective" or "The Bitcoin Society"?  I think we need to found those as well as several other groups.

I actually just learnt there were other "bitcoin foundations" in europe, for example.
http://www.danskbitcoinforening.dk/ is one of them.

How can there be more foundations?

Why do you believe that the USA is the centre of the universe?

[NewLiberty]

Has anyone heard of "The Bitcoin Council"?  How about "The Bitcoin Collective" or "The Bitcoin Society"?  I think we need to found those as well as several other groups.

Draw up a charter, gather the founders, pick a geography (if you like) and do it

[Lauda]

Why do you believe that the USA is the centre of the universe?

What is wrong with you? What lead you to this conclusion?
Who said that I support the current foundation, it's location and existence?

[Chef Ramsay]

One decent upside to these Senate hearings is that Sen. Rand Paul is on the Homeland Security Cmte and likely has some staffers that have better than average intelligence w/ a free market perspective. He's definitely the apex of the Liberty Crusaders in Washington DC. I'm supper happy that this issue is being brought to his attention if it hasn't already.

[Chef Ramsay]

https://twitter.com/8Atlas2/status/401407337530798082
Wish we could post twitter content. Check it out, RT & follow me. I'll follow back.

[r3c4ll]

Well, the date is coming. I hope these meetings result in good news for all of us! (The bitcoiners)

[ineedit]

Why do you believe that the USA is the centre of the universe?

What is wrong with you? What lead you to this conclusion?
Who said that I support the current foundation, it's location and existence?

Your question 'How can there be more foundations?' indicates surprise that others could exist. It shows that you have not thought that there may be other areas of the world that would have their own version of the 'Foundation'

If you had stated something along the lines of 'I am glad that there are more as they may have a different view' then my response would have be different.

As to what is wrong with me then nothing, why should there be unless you think that having a different opinion than yours is somehow wrong.

[Don007]

Well, the date is coming. I hope these meetings result in good news for all of us! (The bitcoiners)

We'll see. Im sure that if the decide something which is negative for the Bitcoin, you will see it quiet fast in the price of the Bitcoins. But, come on, we're all proud on the Bitcoin. They can't harm us

[Lauda]

Your question 'How can there be more foundations?' indicates surprise that others could exist. It shows that you have not thought that there may be other areas of the world that would have their own version of the 'Foundation'

If you had stated something along the lines of 'I am glad that there are more as they may have a different view' then my response would have be different.

As to what is wrong with me then nothing, why should there be unless you think that having a different opinion than yours is somehow wrong.

I still don't see the US relevance here.