Three New Merchants are now up-and-running with Bit-Pay

[nmat]

Is it possible for a business located outside of US to use bit-pay if the payment is made in bitcoins? I mean, if there are no USD involved, what's the problem?

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[Steve]

Is it possible for a business located outside of US to use bit-pay if the payment is made in bitcoins? I mean, if there are no USD involved, what's the problem?

Yes.

[nmat]

Then maybe you should update your FAQ

In which countries is bit-pay available?
Right now bit-pay is only available for merchants with offices in the United States.

A few days ago a user was looking for payment methods and ignored Bit-Pay because it was US only.

[Rogue Star]

Except zero chargeback risk... that's a huge consideration.

I wouldn't say zero risk, that may be a staple of Bitcoin, but not for the periphery services. I like that they are offering this service, and they certainly seem to be committed to achieving that end, but time will tell if there are charge back risks.

[Steve]

Then maybe you should update your FAQ

In which countries is bit-pay available?
Right now bit-pay is only available for merchants with offices in the United States.

A few days ago a user was looking for payment methods and ignored Bit-Pay because it was US only.

Yes, we'll update the FAQ.  At the time we wrote that we wanted to keep the number of merchants to a size we could easily manage (anticipating that support might consume a lot of our time).  Restricting it to the US was one way of doing that.  We haven't had many issues...the primary thing people need is support for various shopping carts.

[Smalleyster]

(we're adding an additional 2%). 
...
  This is not a hobby for us.

So it looks like you have other hidden fees...and you think that somehow you are better than some of us with that last snippy comment?

Two guys fresh out of Georgia Tech is all I see so far.

BTW I used to work for First Data and I'll bet I know far more about cc merchant charges than you two. Hint: you are *expensive*.

And here I was right on the verge of signing up three businesses with you.

Good Luck

[nmat]

So it looks like you have other hidden fees...
Good Luck

Man... what hidden fees? It's dead simple:

Bit-pay Bitcoin to Bitcoin is 1%. Paypal USD to USD is 3% (or 5% if it's less than $2).
Bit-pay Bitcoin to USD is 3%. Paypal USD to other is 5.5% (or 7.5% if it's less than $2).

And since they convert USD prices to bitcoins, they have to deal with market fluctuation. The other day the bitcoin price dropped from $12 to $10 in less than 5 minutes. That's ~20%.

They are the only ones providing such service. Prices could be more competitive if there were alternatives, but I don't think they are expensive.

[aq]

So it looks like you have other hidden fees...
Good Luck

Man... what hidden fees? It's dead simple:

Bit-pay Bitcoin to Bitcoin is 1%. Paypal USD to USD is 3% (or 5% if it's less than $2).
Bit-pay Bitcoin to USD is 3%. Paypal USD to other is 5.5% (or 7.5% if it's less than $2).

And since they convert USD prices to bitcoins, they have to deal with market fluctuation. The other day the bitcoin price dropped from $12 to $10 in less than 5 minutes. That's ~20%.

They are the only ones providing such service. Prices could be more competitive if there were alternatives, but I don't think they are expensive.

As 3-1=2 apparently isn't oblivious to guys with tons of knowledge in "cc merchant charges", maybe it is legitimate to call them hidden fees   

[Smalleyster]

As 3-1=2 apparently isn't oblivious to guys with tons of knowledge in "cc merchant charges", maybe it is legitimate to call them hidden fees   

Did you see those fees mentioned on the website?

Did you notice I had to ask specifically what the fees were to even have this brought out?

Do you know there are aproximately 160 different slots that you fit into as a merchant no matter what your signed up for on your contract.

Did you know that the average fee for credit card procesing should be about 1.5% and $0.15?

Did you realize they are charging double the average?

[nmat]

Did you see those fees mentioned on the website?

Did you notice I had to ask specifically what the fees were to even have this brought out?

That is a good point. Those fees were announced here, but I don't see why don't they put up more info before sign up. I would like to know beforehand how much I would have to pay.

Did you know that the average fee for credit card procesing should be about 1.5% and $0.15?

Did you realize they are charging double the average?

They are charging 1%, in case you didn't notice. They only charge 3% if there is a currency conversion. How much are the credit card processing fees for different currencies?

If I were a merchant, I would rather pay these 3% to have steady USD payments than risking 50% of my income (like it happened on August 6th when the price dropped from $10 to $5). But the choice is up to you.

[Steve]

Smalleyster, I can appreciate that our service may be too expensive for you, but I don't feel you're correctly portraying what merchants are likely to encounter in the way of fees with credit card processors, and particularly merchants that do a low volume of business.

Here's a list of some of the fees that merchants can incur with traditional credit cards: discount percentage, transaction fee, startup fee, annual fee, monthly fee, gateway fee, statement fee, monthly minimum, authorization fee, watts fee, avs fee, batch fee, voice authorization fee, chargeback fee, retrieval fees, bank change fee, ACH return fee, PCI compliance fee, network pass through fees.  And none of that includes the hidden fees on the consumer side.

Edit: forgot to mention the currency conversion and international fees

For Bit-Pay, there is no hidden fee that you alluded to...it is 0.99% for merchants that receive payout in bitcoin and 2.99% for those that take USD (as someone already pointed out 2.99 - 0.99 = 2 ...and reflects the currency exchange risk).  That's it.

[evoorhees]

So it looks like you have other hidden fees...and you think that somehow you are better than some of us with that last snippy comment?

Two guys fresh out of Georgia Tech is all I see so far.

Well someone is being snippy, but it's not Steve.

He was making a point about Bit-pay being a business, not a hobby, and thus the necessity to rightly seek profit, not merely cover costs. For a start-up company, offering currency conversion services between USD and an incredibly volatile, unpredictable currency known as Bitcoin I'd say 2.99% is pretty darn attractive. What does your employer, First Data, charge for conversion between USD and BTC?

I don't see legitimate grounds for your antagonism, Smalleyster.

[Smalleyster]

I don't see legitimate grounds for your antagonism, Smalleyster.

Wasn't antagonistic till the hobby comment. Was truly surprised they charged virtually the same as paypal. I had already stuck my neck out with proposals to two different boards of directors to consider their service. My bad for not completing my homework before talking. Hope I keep the cards closer to the chest from now on and keep quiet about the possibility of using bitcoin as a payment alternative to paypal and major players like my *former* one that you seem to think I still work for.

BTW in my limited experience most start-up companies offer a pricing scenario that *undercuts* the existing marketplace.

The lack of outrageous fees is part of what attracted a few of us to bitcoin in the first place.

[aq]

Did you know that the average fee for credit card procesing should be about 1.5% and $0.15?

For Bit-Pay, there is no hidden fee that you alluded to...it is 0.99% for merchants that receive payout in bitcoin

I don't see legitimate grounds for your antagonism, Smalleyster.

Wasn't antagonistic till the hobby comment. Was truly surprised they charged virtually the same as paypal. I had already stuck my neck out with proposals to two different boards of directors to consider their service. My bad for not completing my homework before talking. Hope I keep the cards closer to the chest from now on and keep quiet about the possibility of using bitcoin as a payment alternative to paypal and major players like my *former* one that you seem to think I still work for.

BTW in my limited experience most start-up companies offer a pricing scenario that *undercuts* the existing marketplace.

The lack of outrageous fees is part of what attracted a few of us to bitcoin in the first place.

Sure, those 0.99% fees are way higher than the usual cc 1.5% + $0.15 fees. ?
I think someone is in trolling mood...

[Smalleyster]

Sure, those 0.99% fees are way higher than the usual cc 1.5% + $0.15 fees. ?
I think someone is in trolling mood...

For most mechants that is a 3% fee as they couldn't care less about keeping btc. For that they can just use PayPal and not risk a new venture.

[nmat]

Wasn't antagonistic till the hobby comment. Was truly surprised they charged virtually the same as paypal. I had already stuck my neck out with proposals to two different boards of directors to consider their service. My bad for not completing my homework before talking. Hope I keep the cards closer to the chest from now on and keep quiet about the possibility of using bitcoin as a payment alternative to paypal and major players like my *former* one that you seem to think I still work for.

BTW in my limited experience most start-up companies offer a pricing scenario that *undercuts* the existing marketplace.

The lack of outrageous fees is part of what attracted a few of us to bitcoin in the first place.

You know, one problem is that companies want to be paid in USD, not in bitcoins. The other problem is that bitcoin prices fluctuate a lot. When you mix these together, it becomes hard to establish prices.

So yes, with 3% fees, companies won't be able to lower their prices. However, they can earn money from bitcoin buyers (if they are interested  )

[aq]

Sure, those 0.99% fees are way higher than the usual cc 1.5% + $0.15 fees. ?
I think someone is in trolling mood...

For most mechants that is a 3% fee as they couldn't care less about keeping btc. For that they can just use PayPal and not risk a new venture.

Sure.
1) Ever tried paying with bitcoins on paypal?
2) Paypal charges some big fees on currency conversion, and BTC->USD is exactly that, a currency conversion.

I am not sure if one can even pay in USD using bitpay, or what the fees would be if possible.
Believing bitpay is BTC only, I think the best solution for a merchant would be just having 2 buttons. A paypal and a bitpay button.
So the merchant would get those super low paypal fees </sarcasm>, and the 3% bitpay fee for the bitcoin customer that one would probably not have otherwise. I think that is still a good deal.

@bitpay: should think about a system like in BTCinch. A merchant can set a percentage there, so that only a part of the bitcoin payment will be converted. Maybe this could also reduce your fees.

[OgNasty]

I think the best solution for a merchant would be just having 2 buttons. A paypal and a bitpay button.

That's how I implemented it.

[LeFBI]

Does Horolotech also have a real address, like in real store or manufactory? Or is this some Swatch watch resell thing? If you are a manufactory, can we get a factory tour?

[Steve]

@bitpay: should think about a system like in BTCinch. A merchant can set a percentage there, so that only a part of the bitcoin payment will be converted. Maybe this could also reduce your fees.

That is on our list.  Cart integration and a phone optimized checkout are at the top of the list at the moment.