Hedge against BitCoin collapse

[MarketTime]

Ok lets see, if Bitcoin collapse Litecoin would be the winner.. So Litecoin...

[AnonyMint]

Ok lets see, if Bitcoin collapse Litecoin would be the winner.. So Litecoin...

Apparently you did not read the thread before you posted?

[Bullion333]

I think there was talk about IG Index in the UK offering a binary options product

http://www.afr.com/p/blogs/markets_today/ig_offers_options_for_clients_champing_D11zEY3AVo4JZtVOdERuOL

Have not heard much about this, perhaps because the spread was massive.

Any one have any experience with this ?

[LiteCoinGuy]

take a look at

www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD


maybe its possible there.

[Skinnkavaj]

The biggest hedge is Litecoin!!!

[Stephen Gornick]

I own no LTC or PPC.

Just for posterity, I believe that at one time you had offered to borrow LTC so that you could sell it to have a short position.  I don't know if you had completed that transaction but disclosing that you have no position now might not be an objective way of describing your position.

For the record, I too own no LTC or PPC, but at some point in the future would possibly consider LTC.  My criteria for a proof-of-work based crypt coin is simply is whether or not sufficient hashing capacity exists.  If (when) a Scrypt ASIC gives the litecoin network's total hashrate a boost such that a 51% there too becomes uneconomical then I might be willing to acquire some LTC.

My biggest fear is selfish mining or some other hack on the system.governments.   

I would say that going short on futures contracts would be one such hedging opportunity that would pay off on a Bitcoin collapse.  The problem with the futures contracts on ICBit, however, is counterparty risk such that your profitable position can be closed prior to settlement date without you seeing the full gains that you would were you able to hold to the settlement date.

[stash]

Ripple. Global payment network.

[cdog]

The biggest threat to bitcoin right now is the Bitcoin Foundation itself and companies like the one Yifu started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333824.0

Regulation of Bitcoin will eventually kill it, the controls start as minor and then become all consuming. Thats how this game works.

[mgio]

Alt coins are NOT a hedge against bitcoin.

If bitcoin is made illegal or the US govt starts shutting down exchanges, alt coins will crash too. If there is found to be a weakness in the bitcoin protocol, alt coins will crash too.

In fact, anything that would crash bitcoin will likely also crash alt coins. They are the worst hedge ever!

People who say they are a decent hedge understand nothing about investing.

[affan]

in the future all cryp coins will die, all of us will die.., my opinion this coins make economy getting worst.., btw there are certain parties attempt to increase the power of bitcoin, of course, those who created it, the goal is to rule the world..

[deisik]

If we can't come to a consensus, we can always find the best hedge statistically (always remember that correlation is not causation)

[deisik]

in the future all cryp coins will die, all of us will die.., my opinion this coins make economy getting worst...

Is your opinion substantiated by facts or logic?
Or you just have some gut feeling there's something wrong about cryptocoins?

[AnonyMint]

I own no LTC or PPC.

Just for posterity, I believe that at one time you had offered to borrow LTC so that you could sell it to have a short position.  I don't know if you had completed that transaction but disclosing that you have no position now might not be an objective way of describing your position.

For the record, I too own no LTC or PPC, but at some point in the future would possibly consider LTC.  My criteria for a proof-of-work based crypt coin is simply is whether or not sufficient hashing capacity exists.  If (when) a Scrypt ASIC gives the litecoin network's total hashrate a boost such that a 51% there too becomes uneconomical then I might be willing to acquire some LTC.

Good to know. Thanks.

[AnonyMint]

The biggest threat to bitcoin right now is the Bitcoin Foundation itself and companies like the one Yifu started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333824.0

Regulation of Bitcoin will eventually kill it, the controls start as minor and then become all consuming. Thats how this game works.

Excellent that you are awake. My group and I were discussing this in private and it is one of our motivations for creating a serious altcoin with superior anonymity.

[AnonyMint]

If there is found to be a weakness in the bitcoin protocol, alt coins will crash too.

I can guarantee you that technically that doesn't have to be the case. It might be the case with near xerox copies such as Litecoin (although Litecoin isn't vulnerable to ASICs yet, has 5X faster block times, and a more dispersed coin supply), but it won't necessarily be the case with an altcoin that actually fixes the known attacks in Bitcoin. In fact, Bitcoin is broken right now.

Btw, I am not bashing Bitcoin to try to get the price to drop so I can buy. Nor do I need people to stop buying Bitcoin in order for an altcoin to succeed (actually the opposite as it is much easier to trade BTC for an altcoin than to obtain from fiat). I may buy some Bitcoin. I believe Bitcoin's exponential price rise will likely continue for 2 years at least (although brief crashes along the way are possible). Try to not look at everyone as having a black or white position (akin to "you are with us or against us", POTUS Bush when referring to the neocon terrorism police state).

[mgio]

If there is found to be a weakness in the bitcoin protocol, alt coins will crash too.

I can guarantee you that technically that doesn't have to be the case. It might be the case with near xerox copies such as Litecoin (although Litecoin isn't vulnerable to ASICs yet, has 5X faster block times, and a more dispersed coin supply), but it won't necessarily be the case with an altcoin that actually fixes the known attacks in Bitcoin. In fact, Bitcoin is broken right now.

Btw, I am not bashing Bitcoin to try to get the price to drop so I can buy. Nor do I need people to stop buying Bitcoin in order for an altcoin to succeed (actually the opposite as it is much easier to trade BTC for an altcoin than to obtain from fiat). I may buy some Bitcoin. I believe Bitcoin's exponential price rise will likely continue for 2 years at least (although brief crashes along the way are possible). Try to not look at everyone as having a black or white position (akin to "you are with us or against us", POTUS Bush when referring to the neocon terrorism police state).

What alt coin fixes the vulnerabilities with bitcoin? That's right, NONE OF THEM DO. They are all essentially just bitcoin.

And an altcoin that addresses a single vulnerability is only a hedge against an exploit being found in that vulnerabilitiy

There still is the much larger problem of people losing faith in crypto currencies in general.

[AnonyMint]

If there is found to be a weakness in the bitcoin protocol, alt coins will crash too.

I can guarantee you that technically that doesn't have to be the case. It might be the case with near xerox copies such as Litecoin (although Litecoin isn't vulnerable to ASICs yet, has 5X faster block times, and a more dispersed coin supply), but it won't necessarily be the case with an altcoin that actually fixes the known attacks in Bitcoin. In fact, Bitcoin is broken right now.

Btw, I am not bashing Bitcoin to try to get the price to drop so I can buy. Nor do I need people to stop buying Bitcoin in order for an altcoin to succeed (actually the opposite as it is much easier to trade BTC for an altcoin than to obtain from fiat). I may buy some Bitcoin. I believe Bitcoin's exponential price rise will likely continue for 2 years at least (although brief crashes along the way are possible). Try to not look at everyone as having a black or white position (akin to "you are with us or against us", POTUS Bush when referring to the neocon terrorism police state).

What alt coin fixes the vulnerabilities with bitcoin? That's right, NONE OF THEM DO. They are all essentially just bitcoin.

So far Litecoin removes ASICs, thus making the coin more accessible to the masses.

I agree the current altcoins (except perhaps the PoS ones such as PPC) are not that much different than Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean one won't come.

And an altcoin that addresses a single vulnerability is only a hedge against an exploit being found in that vulnerabilitiy

Agreed, but an altcoin might address many vulnerabilities.

There still is the much larger problem of people losing faith in crypto currencies in general.

Agreed there is. Which is why we need better altcoins asap before that happens, so we can prove there are differences between crypto-currencies in general.

Monolithic systems (e.g. Bitcoin as the only variant with xerox copies) are inherently less resilient. In mathematical terms, they are Taleb's Antifragile.

[shutik]

I would advise to open account on https://icbit.se
They operate derivatives market in bitcoins

Good hedge would be to sell future contract(s). It will lock you rate of exchange in some point in time in the future for agreed Notional amount of BTC.
In the case bitcoin crashes you will be able to sell it at current market price.
In the case bitcoin will go up, you will lose out the difference between current market price and future rice.

[kdrop22]

I would advise to open account on https://icbit.se
They operate derivatives market in bitcoins

Good hedge would be to sell future contract(s). It will lock you rate of exchange in some point in time in the future for agreed Notional amount of BTC.
In the case bitcoin crashes you will be able to sell it at current market price.
In the case bitcoin will go up, you will lose out the difference between current market price and future rice.

I'm interested in https://icbit.se as well. However, don't they (Or any other service that sells futures) introduce a counterparty risk?
Given all the wallet/exchange services that have been hacked or disappeared. It seems not sensible to leave funds at the exchange for a few months.
Please, correct me if I misunderstood how they work.

[shadallion]

You can hedge against bitcoin on Predictious.com.  Simply bet against bitcoin exceeding X dollar amount by X date.