Please remove Chaang Noi (Goat) or BadBear from default trust list

[WEB slicer]

i know, i only PM'd him cause i saw global troll buster under his name. goat is a troll so i was hoping he would bust him for spreading fud.

[tvbcof]

Actually a slight surprise, as Badbear and Goat don't get along very well. The fact that Badbear trusts Goat just means that he seriously would trust goat finanically.

I will admit I was very surprised.
...

Generally I don't see a big surprise here.  There are people I don't get along with at all but would trust relatively highly in financial matters.  Similarly there are people I get along with well who I would not trust with a $10 bill.  I'm talking about in real life more than in cyberspace of course, but the same basic principle applies even here.

[fligen]

goat should be banned.

[WEB slicer]

 

[WEB slicer]

this forum does ban for trolling right? im pretty sure he has crossed the line many times. give him the boot. he wont be missed. bitcointalk will be a better place.

[BadBear]

If someone does a deal with someone on the default trust list, and they leave positive feedback, they are now on the list.

That's incorrect, leaving someone feedback doesn't add them to your or anyone's list.

[SaltySpitoon]

That's incorrect, leaving someone feedback doesn't add them to your or anyone's list.

Sorry, should have reworded that. If someone on the default trust list, trusts someone else, then that other person's feedback onto another person, is then categorized as "trusted feedback" assuming you use the default trust option and have appropriate depth set.

Its a confusing ass system. Sometimes I look at it and just kind of wonder how someone ended up with a certain feedback score, try and investigate, and just give up and declare it witchcraft.

[dave111223]

I was under the impression that you closed your company as it was illegal to trade BTC in Thailand.

Are you going to admit that BTC is legal in Thailand now or are you operation a company illegally?


I will adjust my feedback once you respond. If you ever find my feed back is not correct please explain why. I am more than happy to correct any mistakes I make.

No the company was never closed.  The company was buying/selling bitcoins (prior to August) , now the company is only selling USB miners and basically holding waiting until trade can begin again.

PM with more coming shortly and we can then tackle any issues that you seem to have with that information.

[dave111223]

Ok, message sent to Badbear.

Badbear don't care.

Yes this became apparent quite quickly.  He then got pretty hostile after my post about Goat wheedling or paying his pay onto the trust list.

I have also tried to reason with Goat, explaining at great length the process that bitcoin co. ltd. went through and why I had/have reason to believe bitcoin trading is considered illegal in Thailand.

Goat refuses to engage in reasoned discussion, but instead will only state that it's self evident that i'm wrong and untrusted.

I have tried to explain in the simplest manner possible to Goat why buying/sell bitcoin is illegal in Thailand, here was my information:

If you wanted to offer money changing services in Thailand you need a license:
Source: http://www.kodmhai.com/m4/m4-2/h82/m1-9.html

BoT (Bank of Thailand) has the mandate to oversee money changing business and licenses:
Source: http://www.bot.or.th/ENGLISH/FOREIGNEXCHANGEREGULATIONS/FXREGULATION/Pages/ExchangeControlLaw.aspx

BoT will not issue any company or person with a license to change money if they are trading in bitcoin
BoT does consider trading bitcoins to be "changing money"
Source: Director - Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department - Mrs. Suthasinee Nimitkul
From the meeting in July.

Goats response to this was "wow you really are slow."

He has poked around at the feedback he left me.  Finally remove the totally fictitious 1BTC that he "risked" with me.  However still stubbornly refuses to remove his other feedback.

Again I appeal to the mods to remove Goat from the default trust list.  I have no problem with Goat's trust still remaining on my account, but I should not be branded with a red "Warning" next to every post I make.

[dave111223]

we have had more than 20 PM's talking about this issue and that is the one line you quote.

you really should not be trusted.

Which of your responses would you like to quote?  Feel free to quote the PMs.

[SaltySpitoon]

Ok, message sent to Badbear.

Badbear don't care.

Yes this became apparent quite quickly.  He then got pretty hostile after my post about Goat wheedling or paying his pay onto the trust list.

I have also tried to reason with Goat, explaining at great length the process that bitcoin co. ltd. went through and why I had/have reason to believe bitcoin trading is considered illegal in Thailand.

Goat refuses to engage in reasoned discussion, but instead will only state that it's self evident that i'm wrong and untrusted.

I have tried to explain in the simplest manner possible to Goat why buying/sell bitcoin is illegal in Thailand, here was my information:

If you wanted to offer money changing services in Thailand you need a license:
Source: http://www.kodmhai.com/m4/m4-2/h82/m1-9.html

BoT (Bank of Thailand) has the mandate to oversee money changing business and licenses:
Source: http://www.bot.or.th/ENGLISH/FOREIGNEXCHANGEREGULATIONS/FXREGULATION/Pages/ExchangeControlLaw.aspx

BoT will not issue any company or person with a license to change money if they are trading in bitcoin
BoT does consider trading bitcoins to be "changing money"
Source: Director - Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department - Mrs. Suthasinee Nimitkul
From the meeting in July.

Goats response to this was "wow you really are slow."

He has poked around at the feedback he left me.  Finally remove the totally fictitious 1BTC that he "risked" with me.  However still stubbornly refuses to remove his other feedback.

Again I appeal to the mods to remove Goat from the default trust list.  I have no problem with Goat's trust still remaining on my account, but I should not be branded with a red "Warning" next to every post I make.

Again, mods have no power over it. The only way to remove Goat would be for Theymos to remove Badbear from the default trust list. That or Badbear would have to remove Goat, and he has already addressed that.

I do care, problem is OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well, so I have no reason to believe him and intervene as he has requested. Also consider that goat isn't the only one to leave him feedback for that so I have a hard time believing it's personal as he claims.

[dave111223]

As you can see from Goat's replies he provides no argument, information or fact.

Just that his feedback is unimpeachably correct and beyond question, does not require any information to back it up.

And once again includes an insult for good measure.

[dave111223]

Again, mods have no power over it. The only way to remove Goat would be for Theymos to remove Badbear from the default trust list. That or Badbear would have to remove Goat, and he has already addressed that.

I do care, problem is OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well, so I have no reason to believe him and intervene as he has requested. Also consider that goat isn't the only one to leave him feedback for that so I have a hard time believing it's personal as he claims.

Ok, I've adjusted the topic to include Badbear.

I contacted Badbear as per SaltySpitoon suggestion to remove Goat from his 2nd level trust, as this was resulting in Goat being on the default trust list.

I explained to Badbear that Goat's feedback was untruthful and the information showing why it was wrong.

Badbear showed no interest about knowing more or reading the information, instead said that because another person (Lohoris) had also left similar feedback then it must be true (despite the fact that Lohoris had been heavily lobbied/persuaded by Goat on the topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264203.100)

I also pleaded with Badbear that if Goat wanted me labeled a scammer, he should start a thread supporting it; to which Badbear said this thread should server that purpose? (So I have to create my own trial with a guilty verdict and work backwards)

Badbear said that I had to talk to Goat directly and then he was basically washing his hands of the situation; although I knew that it would be impossible to reason with Goat, I contacted him anyway as per Badbear direction....which was obviously fruitless...Badbear wants nothing more to do with it.

Badbear says about me: "OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well", where did I do this?

After it became apparent that this was a lost cause I posted: "Somehow Goat has managed to wheedle or pay his way into that group[the default trust list]"
And this translates into me "Spreading misinformation and lies about Badbear"?

[BadBear]

Badbear says about me: "OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well", where did I do this?

After it became apparent that this was a lost cause I posted: "Somehow Goat has managed to wheedle or pay his way into that group[the default trust list]"
And this translates into me "Spreading misinformation and lies about Badbear"?

You've pretty much proved goats case here, because you're lying. You post speculation as fact, which is exactly what the oroginal issue was about, or don't know the difference between the two, or you're trolling.

[dave111223]

Badbear says about me: "OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well", where did I do this?

After it became apparent that this was a lost cause I posted: "Somehow Goat has managed to wheedle or pay his way into that group[the default trust list]"
And this translates into me "Spreading misinformation and lies about Badbear"?

You've pretty much proved goats case here, because you're lying. You post speculation as fact, or don't know the difference between the two, or you're trolling.

Somehow = speculation != asserting facts

Yes I was speculating how Goat got onto the trust list.

It appears there are 2 ways to get into someone's downstream trust:

1) They leave you public trust feed (ie I bought 10BTC of Goat and the deal went smoothly)...Goat is now "trusted" by you, and so therefore trusted by others that trust you

2) There also appears be some kind of private trust system, as you have not left any public trust feedback for Goat, but he appears in your downstream trust

I was speculating as to how Goat has gotten into the 2nd level default trust list without any public trust feedback from any 1st level default trust list members?  (ie it must be option #2).  And what was the reason for privately adding some to the trust downstream?

Is this not a topic worth questioning?  Is there a reasonable answer to why this has occurred?  And was Goat in your downstream trust prior to 2013-11-10?

[BadBear]

Badbear says about me: "OP has already spread misinformation and lies about me as well", where did I do this?

After it became apparent that this was a lost cause I posted: "Somehow Goat has managed to wheedle or pay his way into that group[the default trust list]"
And this translates into me "Spreading misinformation and lies about Badbear"?

You've pretty much proved goats case here, because you're lying. You post speculation as fact, or don't know the difference between the two, or you're trolling.

Somehow = speculation != asserting facts

Yes I was speculating how Goat got onto the trust list.

It appears there are 2 ways to get into someone's downstream trust:

1) They leave you public trust feed (ie I bought 10BTC of Goat and the deal went smoothly)...Goat is now "trusted" by you, and so therefore trusted by others that trust you

2) There also appears be some kind of private trust system, as you have not left any public trust feedback for Goat, but he appears in your downstream trust

I was speculating as to how Goat has gotten into the 2nd level default trust list without any public trust feedback from any 1st level default trust list members?  (ie it must be option #2).  And what was the reason for privately adding some to the trust downstream?

Is this not a topic worth questioning?  Is there a reasonable answer to why this has occurred?  And was Goat in your downstream trust prior to 2013-11-10?

 You have no idea how the trust system works, neither 1 and 2 are true. Being on someone's trust list isn't determined by feedback. I haven't left feedback for most people on my trust list. And yes he was on it before that date.

[dave111223]

You have no idea how the trust system works, neither 1 and 2 are true. Being on someone's trust list isn't determined by feedback. I haven't left feedback for most people on my trust list. And yes he was on it before that date.

I've re-examined the trust system and it appears that you can add people by typing their username into the Trust list box.

So I am assuming that means you have typed "Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย " into this box on your account, is this what you mean?

You may have done this because you feel that you value Goats opinion and you'd like to see his trust feedback prominently featured next to each user; in which case my speculation about doing this because of wheedling or paying would be false and apologize to Goat and yourself for this speculation.

However I would like to point out that you are on the default trust list for the forum, which comes with added responsibility because the trust rating you see are shown to every single user in the community.  As such you should feel obligate to make sure those trust ratings/warnings are accurate*.

If you feel you didn't ask for/ didn't want this responsibility then you should recuse yourself and ask thermos to remove this responsibility by removing you from level 1 default trust list.

You may just be thinking "I'd like to see Goats ratings", you are actually saying "Every single bitcoin users should see Goats ratings"

*In this case of this thread I have called into question Goats rating, I think, considering that you are on the default trustlist and have deemed Goat worthy also, that you should take the time to properly review the case and give both parties ample chance to explain themselves with any doubles you may have.  If you feel that it's not worth your time to do this then as previously mentioned you should recuse yourself from the position.

[inform]

I notice to today I have a message next to my name: "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!"

As it appears Goat is now on the default trust list, despite that fact that he completely abuses the "trust" feedback, leaving negative feedback for just about anything he doesn't like (basically using "negative trust" as a "dislike")

Examples of negative trust he has left for me (keep in mind that I have never had or attempted to have any business/trading deals with Goat):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=73389

Claim 1: With this claim he also claims that he "risked 1BTC" with me:

Lied about Bitcoin being illegal in Thailand. Claimed to be a media source. do not trust this guy with anything he says, never trust him with BTC

Claim 2: He makes another distrust rate about the same issue:

His wife runs the now closed and suspected scam site bitcoin.th.co

PM me for info if you need to file a claim with the Royal Thai Police.

A) The site is bitcoin.co.th

B) It's not a scam site, and the business is still in operation, business is still in good standing

The fact that one individual on the forum can dislike a topic, and then make it so that every single bitcointalk users seeing by default that "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" is crazy.  If you look through Goat's negative trust feedbacks for other users you can clearly see he as a recent history of abusing the feedback system.

I don't mind if anyone leaves me totally unfounded bullshit feedback, but when that is instantly visible in red next to any thing I post that crosses the line.

ADMIN HELP OUR SITUATION

I AM SAME PROUBLUM

WHY GOAT MAKE -6 ME MORNING TODAY



HEY ADMIN NICK [Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย] ATACKS ME FOR NOTHING REASON

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334290.0



WHY THIS GUY MAKE ME -1
FOR NOTHING REASON

NICK
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44233

 Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย   Picture/Text
Name:   Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย
Posts:   10400
Activity:   672
Position:   VIP
Date Registered:   October 19, 2011, 09:52:00 AM
Last Active:   Today


HE MAKE ME -1 REPUTATION NOT REASON
 Huh

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=131452


Untrusted feedback

These ratings are from people who are not in your trust network. They may be totally inaccurate.


No feedback.  Cry

Sent feedback






Trusted feedback

User   Date   Risked BTC amount   Reference   Comments
Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย 10: -0 / +18(18)   2013-11-14   0.00000000   Reference   Gambler begging for money for "sick mother"

 Huh

HEY WHY YOU MAKE ME - 6 point Double lol

 Cry

i not know him
i not here for war
i not understand and not wont be for sick guy atack me for 0$

This guy vampire my reputation

i cry


Administration please clear my profile
i not know this guy is crazy ateack me -6
i slep morning i wake up and read this in my profile today

[BadBear]

Even John, an admin here, thought it was such FUD  that he moved it out of the press board where you posted it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264339.0

Won't say I agree or disagree with leaving you feedback for it, but it isn't unjustified.

[bitcoinwheel]

goat is a bitch why don't people just leave him negative feedback also? I fucking did that ugly chai tea fucker