dollar collapse

[AndrewWilliams]

It should be noted that the european economy is in deep shit even without the failing dollar to push it along. There are simply not enough people in the 20-30 range to pay for the retiring baby boomers, and it's their fault for not having enough kids (sub-replacement rate).

Yeah, the geniuses linked all the European economies together using the Euro, knowing that if they could get 1 or 2 large countries to fall, the rest of Europe would fall (Greece and Spain).

In times of uncertainty, Bitcoin is king.

[1714936947]

1714936947

[Birdy]

It should be noted that the european economy is in deep shit even without the failing dollar to push it along. There are simply not enough people in the 20-30 range to pay for the retiring baby boomers, and it's their fault for not having enough kids (sub-replacement rate).

It probably would be worse if there were enough kids, because then the environment would collapse instead (well maybe it does that anyway).

[Wilhelm]

It should be noted that the european economy is in deep shit even without the failing dollar to push it along. There are simply not enough people in the 20-30 range to pay for the retiring baby boomers, and it's their fault for not having enough kids (sub-replacement rate).

Having more kids solves all problems

[Ibian]

Last 2 guys, it's a simple mathematical problem. In Socialist Utopias the state takes from those who work and gives to those who do not. The baby boomers are retiring. They have not sired enough kids to take over the bills. This means less funding for more people, which means higher taxes and less payouts for each individual. Everyone loses. Matters of environment, ethics, lolcats and whatever else is entirely irrelevant. It's a problem that will bankrupt all of Europe even if there were no other problems, and it will take generations to fix if we started right now.

The one silver lining is that it could lead to a wider adoption of bitcoin, which could make a small group of us very wealthy and able to ditch this corner of the world.

[Birdy]

Last 2 guys, it's a simple mathematical problem. In Socialist Utopias the state takes from those who work and gives to those who do not. The baby boomers are retiring. They have not sired enough kids to take over the bills. This means less funding for more people, which means higher taxes and less payouts for each individual. Everyone loses. Matters of environment, ethics, lolcats and whatever else is entirely irrelevant. It's a problem that will bankrupt all of Europe even if there were no other problems, and it will take generations to fix if we started right now.

This isn't entirely true, the production rate is higher than before, even with less people.
So if you need less people to produce more stuff, it could be possible to solve this.

Also environmental problems and population growth are strongly connected, it's creating the upper limit that will break the exponential growth if nothing else does.
You've hinted at having more kids as viable solution, which clearly isn't the case.

and it's their fault for not having enough kids

[Wilhelm]

Last 2 guys, it's a simple mathematical problem. In Socialist Utopias the state takes from those who work and gives to those who do not. The baby boomers are retiring. They have not sired enough kids to take over the bills. This means less funding for more people, which means higher taxes and less payouts for each individual. Everyone loses. Matters of environment, ethics, lolcats and whatever else is entirely irrelevant. It's a problem that will bankrupt all of Europe even if there were no other problems, and it will take generations to fix if we started right now.

Since you are obviously not European I can understand that your view of Europe might be slightly skewed as is our American view.

Ok let's state the opposite in the same light as you did.

If we don't help the sick they can't work, if they don't insure themselves (since they have no work) they still need medical attention. Eventually they end up in healthcare for which they have no money. Without money they get inadequate treatment and end up crippled. When crippled they sue everyone. Money has to come somewehere so taxes go up and economy goes down.

Both systems don't work ideally but I do believe in helping your fellow country members if they need help (up to a certain level).

[Ibian]

Last 2 guys, it's a simple mathematical problem. In Socialist Utopias the state takes from those who work and gives to those who do not. The baby boomers are retiring. They have not sired enough kids to take over the bills. This means less funding for more people, which means higher taxes and less payouts for each individual. Everyone loses. Matters of environment, ethics, lolcats and whatever else is entirely irrelevant. It's a problem that will bankrupt all of Europe even if there were no other problems, and it will take generations to fix if we started right now.

This isn't entirely true, the production rate is higher than before, even with less people.
So if you need less people to produce more stuff, it could be possible to solve this.

It's actually not. Less than half the population in my country works. Everyone else is on some form of public handouts. More importantly, we are dying. With each generation being smaller than the last and immigration ever increasing, it's just a matter of time until some of the european countries lose their native population entirely. The culture is already shot in many places.

Since you are obviously not European,

I'm danish.

Never assume on the internet.

The US problem is even simpler and has been covered.

[BlueTemplar]

A big work has been released recently that shows that population growth rate was about half of economy growth rate for the last 300 years (so the other half is productivity).

Also, after overshoot comes collapse, there's no way around that.

[david64]

BitCoin largely derives its value from future speculation. There is not much practical use for it ATM for most people. This speculation can span from anywhere between a few seconds to years, i.e. people selling on these pumps and people holding because they believe it will be worth $1,000 and more in the future.

I think a dollar collapse would cause a giant increase in the USD->BTC price and nothing else. Though I don't think the dollar will go just yet.

[theonewhowaskazu]

There are 3 possible outcomes:

Either the Fed never ever tapers, and keeps on financing public & private debt through QE & bailouts, and the dollar inflates to 0.

Or, the fed does taper, and the system collapses under its own weight causing huge deflation & basically financial armageddon & widespread default.

Or, the USG tries semi-shady tactics to avoid one of the above tactics, like "re-defining" the US Dollar, writing off some of its debt, or the like.

By the way, does the USG accept non-base currency (fractional reserve money) as legal tender? And if it does, what happens to that bank credit? Is it redeemed for base currency after people pay taxes? Or does the US Government have some big checking account somewhere?

[Coinseeker]

Both systems don't work ideally but I do believe in helping your fellow country members if they need help (up to a certain level).

+1  Thank God, I was starting to think everyone here was selfish and heartless as hell.

I think a dollar collapse would cause a giant increase in the USD->BTC price and nothing else.

How does this make sense?  If the dollar is collapsed, any "increase in the USD->BTC price" is a decrease in the value of BTC.  As I stated earlier, a dollar collapse would render USD worthless, thus ANY price paid in USD -> BTC would be giving up BTC for free.