Coin amounts and value

[MrG1ne]

Hi All,

I am currently part of a project soon to be announced on Bitcointalk and we are looking to get some general opinions on tokenomics.

I'd imagine developers and already existing project teams would be best to receive feedback from.

An idea we've had is the use of an Ethereum based utility token, which has an (X algo based) coin counterpart.  The idea is for the coin to be the store of value and the token to be used in a rewards based eco-system.

The issue is to price the token in accordance to the coin and the coin in accordance to the price of Bitcoin, for example:

Token Supply=X amount
Token Value= X amount of said coin
Coin Supply= X amount (giving regard to the amount of token)
Coin Value= X amount of satoshi (equiv to USD, GBP, EUR price of BTC)

To make clear, the token would not be exchange listed, only the coin.  The tokens will be re-issuable to account for newcomers to the eco-system, however the coin will not be re-issuable and it is the aim to list this coin on exchanges and make available as a store of value/medium of exchange for merchants, investors, transfer, trade etc...

I know I might be being a bit vague here, but I'm open to discussion.

[Slava79]

What is the token <=> coin relation, in practice? Newcomers receive some tokens which will be somehow exchanged to coins?

[MrG1ne]

Precisely.

Newcomers and users of our platform and 3^rd party platforms within the eco-system, will be awarded tokens for X task/verification.  The tokens can then be exchanged via our platform for X amount of coin.

We are leaning towards making tokens re-issuable to allow for user amount and reward amount.  In our current theory the token amount should be worth less than the coin e.g.  1000 tokens=10 coins, or something so 

[Slava79]

If you make token re-issuable and announce it, which means unlimited supply, won't it impact  the tokens value on ICO?

[MrG1ne]

We do not plan to do an ICO with the token, it will only be attainable visa the platform, we may consider one with the coin, however we want to take feedback from a working chain and demo first.

[Slava79]

Interesting, why do you need token at all if you anyway are going to have own coin?

I thought the only use of tokens is to get some money for development. If you will have your own blockchain and don't plan ICO, why bother?

[MrG1ne]

Interesting, why do you need token at all if you anyway are going to have own coin?

I thought the only use of tokens is to get some money for development. If you will have your own blockchain and don't plan ICO, why bother?

This is a great answer and we have discussed the possiblity of running a 2 stage ICO for the coin only.  First a private stage to allow institutions that fit within the remit of the eco-system to contribute and/or make sizeable investment in the project.  This could be followed by a second stage for public, with the remaining coins being mined over X amount of time.

The token creation is for a rewards based system, built on the ethereum blockchain using smart contracts and dapps, this makes it flexible for building/integrating platforms, ^3rd party dapps, via smart contracts.  

The rewards are based on certain user interactions, so if we did an ICO with the tokens, it would give the people with the most money all the rewards, not those who have actually completed the user interactions correctly.  The base structure of cryptocurrency is to reward for the solving of cryptographic problems/puzzles (POW) and we feel that to get less technical people involved in the benefits of blockchain and cryptocurrency they can too be rewarded for completing everyday tasks they actually enjoy.  The system would include POS style bonus and bonuses for completing progressed interactions.  There would also be certain things you can buy in-platform, with the token.  e.g. bonus content etc...

The reason for having the coin as a counterpart, is that people cannot buy their way into the rewards system.   They can however invest into growing and facilitating the eco-system, or transacting within it.  We have discussed building this as a hybrid POW/POS chain, so we can provide  POS airdrop for investors and earners, whilst accommodating for the better security, supply and consensus of POW mining.  We want collaborators and grafters within the rewards system to be rewarded, just as much as investors in the eco-system itself.

For example, a third party dapp wants to use or integrate our reward system they can, the tokens can then be exchanged for the coin through our platform.  The coin can then be used within the eco-system (to purchase goods/services from participating third parties) or used as any other cryptocurrency would(buying/selling, personal transactions, investment, exchange).

[Slava79]

Interesting, why do you need token at all if you anyway are going to have own coin?

I thought the only use of tokens is to get some money for development. If you will have your own blockchain and don't plan ICO, why bother?

The token creation is for a rewards based system, built on the ethereum blockchain using smart contracts and dapps, this makes it flexible for building/integrating platforms, ^3rd party dapps, via smart contracts.  

If you only need token in your platform for some complex kind of interactions with users, but still don't plan ICO, why not take Ethereum's (EOS, NEO?) codebase and get everything for free?

[Patatas]

It's very difficult to give you an appropriate answer because tokenomics wary from one project to another.Every project have their own way of token allocations plus some general tokenomic consensus.Are you sure you will be forking your coin from Ethereum ?

Do you ever want your "x-coin" to hit an exchange ? Will the supply be limited or burned after the ICO ? Factors like these matters more than you think they do.

[MrG1ne]

It's very difficult to give you an appropriate answer because tokenomics wary from one project to another.Every project have their own way of token allocations plus some general tokenomic consensus.Are you sure you will be forking your coin from Ethereum ?

Do you ever want your "x-coin" to hit an exchange ? Will the supply be limited or burned after the ICO ? Factors like these matters more than you think they do.

Hey,

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that the tokenomics will differ from project to project.  Not trying to get a definitive amount, but more to get opinions on the idea of running two chains simultaneously that can integrate with each other, with the view of one chain being used as, lets say, a top layer currency, and the other being a 2^nd layer currency which has a different set of rules and/or the provision to run dapps and smart contracts (hence the base thought being to use Ethereum for the token). 

The idea being the 2^nd layer currency could only be exchanged for the first layer currency, upon accruing a certain amount.  The thinking behind this is that it would require the user interactions to be completed successfully in order for you to obtain it.  The point of the chain would be the verification of successfully completed user interactions.  When the interactions are verified, the user is rewarded.  (Smart contracts determine the reward amount and payouts)

The point of not making the token available for sale via an exchange or crowdsale is so that users who truly want to use and help to grow the eco-system, for the benefits that it brings, can benefit financially from their input and time by exchanging said token for said coin.

I say 'truly' because, if the token was placed on crypto exchanges, or made available through means of an ICO, people would be able to 'cheat' the rewards system by just buying a silly amount of tokens.

The reason for the coin is to give a value to the token.  This would likely lead to agree that the coin should be worth more than the token.  Again, an example is that someone accrues 1000 of 'x' token and is able to exchange it for 10 of 'x' coin.  'x' coin is worth xxxxxxxxxx btc and is listed on crypto exchanges and can be used as a currency either within that eco-system or externally to pay for goods/services etc...

I really appreciate all of the answers and glad to spark a debate on the topic, just not sure I'm explaining properly.

[vladaziya1]

This is a very interesting idea for your development. If you promote it, you will reach great heights. Good luck with your work.

[Javanewstar]

So if this token does not appear on the exchange, how do you guarantee the liquidity of this token?
If there is no liquidity, then this token is worthless.

[Shewar]

I think the idea in a project that will be announced in bitcoin is a very good idea. The idea you have is the use of a Ethereum-based utility token, which has a coin partner (X-based algo). The idea is for the coins to store value and tokens that will be used in a prize-based eco system, in addition to the security system you apply also very good and I think the system is very secure for someone's account security.

[MrG1ne]

This is a very interesting idea for your development. If you promote it, you will reach great heights. Good luck with your work.

Thank you.  We will begin promoting soon, once we have decided on coin/token amount.

[MrG1ne]

So if this token does not appear on the exchange, how do you guarantee the liquidity of this token?
If there is no liquidity, then this token is worthless.

Good point, but we have already considered this.

We can guarantee that the token will forever be liquid to it's coin counterpart.  This would ensure token liquidity.  Our coin would always be liquid as it WILL be listed on exchanges, like any other coin/token.

[MrG1ne]

I think the idea in a project that will be announced in bitcoin is a very good idea. The idea you have is the use of a Ethereum-based utility token, which has a coin partner (X-based algo). The idea is for the coins to store value and tokens that will be used in a prize-based eco system, in addition to the security system you apply also very good and I think the system is very secure for someone's account security.

Thanks for the support.

Every opinion counts at this critical stage n our planning.

[tonylewisverdu]

Hi All,

I am currently part of a project soon to be announced on Bitcointalk and we are looking to get some general opinions on tokenomics.

I'd imagine developers and already existing project teams would be best to receive feedback from.

An idea we've had is the use of an Ethereum based utility token, which has an (X algo based) coin counterpart.  The idea is for the coin to be the store of value and the token to be used in a rewards based eco-system.

The issue is to price the token in accordance to the coin and the coin in accordance to the price of Bitcoin, for example:

Token Supply=X amount
Token Value= X amount of said coin
Coin Supply= X amount (giving regard to the amount of token)
Coin Value= X amount of satoshi (equiv to USD, GBP, EUR price of BTC)

To make clear, the token would not be exchange listed, only the coin.  The tokens will be re-issuable to account for newcomers to the eco-system, however the coin will not be re-issuable and it is the aim to list this coin on exchanges and make available as a store of value/medium of exchange for merchants, investors, transfer, trade etc...

I know I might be being a bit vague here, but I'm open to discussion.

token value comes from the project value and metrics if a project is low on marketcap its has abig chance to boom..

D154