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Author Topic: Bit Coin Vending Machine  (Read 5873 times)
dsp
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July 31, 2011, 02:31:25 AM
 #1

Old phone card machines could be repurposed to dispense bit bills and or redeemable coin tickets. Bit Bills have the problem of a large upfront liability kinda kill your cash flow, as-well as being pegged to a exact denom. It would be much cheaper to dispense tickets with qrcodes that take you to a site that you enter a receiving address, There by redeeming the ticket, convert $20 to x BTC at current market value. This would be cheaper as you would only have to have the number of coins on hand to get thru x days. I guess these could also be used with off the grid pre-generated cards (Savings Account Cards).

A custom kiosk could be built that you pump cash into and flash it a qrcode for it to send the coins to. This would also help to get around the whole "how do I buy bit coins for the casual coiner". I wonder if mezegrill would buy one of these kiosks. This type of machine would not even need to be serviced except to pick up the cash. Maybe the kiosks could be built with minner GPU for the high scale model.
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NF6X
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July 31, 2011, 03:08:22 AM
 #2

In terms of hardware, I think that the only difference between your proposed kiosk that you flash a QR code at vs. any other network-connected cash-accepting kiosk would be the need for an appropriate camera to look at the QR code... in other words, not much difference! The camera might double as a security camera. Maybe some kiosk designs already have a suitable camera in place for security?
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July 31, 2011, 03:11:55 AM
 #3

I like where your head is at.
I've been thinking a bit about this lately.  I have a few vending machines.  I think this company even has a live linux internet kiosk disk, but I can't find it on their website anymore.  Anyway id don't think they left it open source.  http://www.weavefuture.com/  will be fun to hack around with though.

also found this.
http://peterkropf.com/archives/213

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July 31, 2011, 03:16:09 AM
 #4

Maybe the kiosks could be built with minner GPU for the high scale model.

I just got a mental image of bums huddling around a BTC kiosk at night for warmth.  Cheesy
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July 31, 2011, 03:25:46 AM
 #5

Maybe the kiosks could be built with minner GPU for the high scale model.

I just got a mental image of bums huddling around a BTC kiosk at night for warmth.  Cheesy

Now that's killer funny! 8^)

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RandyFolds
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July 31, 2011, 03:37:25 AM
 #6

This is nothing but a pipe dream. Think of the infrastructure needed to build, distribute, maintain and keep records on a number of machines that would actually reach a useful number of people. Armored cars to pick up the cash and load the change dispensers, the cards themselves would be expensive to produce if they were counterfeit resistant...that's a lot of man-hours and a lot of equipment costs for exactly what benefit? It needs to be profitable for anyone to be interested in funding it.

Step 1: Sink millions and millions of dollars into a BTC vending machine infrastructure
Step 2: Huh
Step 3: Bankruptcy

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July 31, 2011, 03:49:38 AM
 #7

You could also use Near Field Communication instead of QR codes to exchange Bitcoin addresses.

There's already support for it in the Bitcoin wallet for android. (source)



This is nothing but a pipe dream. Think of the infrastructure needed to build, distribute, maintain and keep records on a number of machines that would actually reach a useful number of people. Armored cars to pick up the cash and load the change dispensers, the cards themselves would be expensive to produce if they were counterfeit resistant...that's a lot of man-hours and a lot of equipment costs for exactly what benefit? It needs to be profitable for anyone to be interested in funding it.

Step 1: Sink millions and millions of dollars into a BTC vending machine infrastructure
Step 2: Huh
Step 3: Bankruptcy

I would agree, but somehow people are making money off of selling gold in a vending machine, which sounds like a much worse idea to me...


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Smalleyster
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July 31, 2011, 03:52:35 AM
 #8

You could also use Near Field Communication instead of QR codes to exchange Bitcoin addresses.

There's already support for it in the Bitcoin wallet for android. (source)



This is nothing but a pipe dream. Think of the infrastructure needed to build, distribute, maintain and keep records on a number of machines that would actually reach a useful number of people. Armored cars to pick up the cash and load the change dispensers, the cards themselves would be expensive to produce if they were counterfeit resistant...that's a lot of man-hours and a lot of equipment costs for exactly what benefit? It needs to be profitable for anyone to be interested in funding it.

Step 1: Sink millions and millions of dollars into a BTC vending machine infrastructure
Step 2: Huh
Step 3: Bankruptcy

I would agree, but somehow people are making money off of selling gold in a vending machine, which sounds like a much worse idea to me...

Just propose it to the VC guy, take your cut and haul ass!

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
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RandyFolds
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July 31, 2011, 04:43:28 AM
 #9

You forget that the only thing that will entice a company into doing this is profit. Where is the profit in your model? That was my point...no one is going to sink millions into this with no end game other than your convenience.

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July 31, 2011, 04:45:11 AM
 #10

You forget that the only thing that will entice a company into doing this is profit. Where is the profit in your model? That was my point...no one is going to sink millions into this with no end game other than your convenience.

$20 - $18 = $2 profit per transaction.

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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July 31, 2011, 04:59:05 AM
 #11

You forget that the only thing that will entice a company into doing this is profit. Where is the profit in your model? That was my point...no one is going to sink millions into this with no end game other than your convenience.

$20 - $18 = $2 profit per transaction.

10% fees? Why would anyone use it? This is something that might have a purpose in fifty years, but to be discussing it seriously today is just a joke. Unless it is deployed on an ATM scale, it is hardly a step up in convenience. So that 10K for equipment becomes that times 3000, plus the army of trucks to maintain them and the army of officeworkers to manage them.

Gumballs have a use and an incredibly low overhead...right now, a bitcoin vending machine has neither.

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July 31, 2011, 05:19:19 AM
 #12

More viable would be a simple vending machine that dispensed junk food and other snacks for bitcoins. A lot cheaper to maintain and service than cash based ones. Could probably offer the same goodies at a much lower price too and still be competetive.
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July 31, 2011, 05:49:30 AM
 #13

Crappy little ATMs in gas stations turn profit the same way: by charging an exorbitant fee in exchange for getting money Right Now. A gas station ATM might charge $2.50 for a $20 withdrawal.

I agree that it makes little to no sense to stick a BTC kiosk into a random gas station yet, but a brick and mortar shop that chooses to accept BTC might also choose to stick a BTC purchasing kiosk in their lobby.

This seems to me like a concept that could be tried out at a small number of locations (even a single location) for prototyping and proof of concept purposes, and then naturally scale up with BTC acceptance.

Running a squadron of armored cars to service the machines would indeed be expensive. However, unlike ATMs that need to be loaded up with new cash, these machines would only need cash taken out. The machine could be bought by the proprietor of the store where it's installed, and then it's owner can periodically unload the deposited cash and buy more BTC to be "dispensed" on some suitable exchange. The machine sellers make their money by selling the machine, and the store owners make their money by selling BTC at a markup. No army of armored truck drivers is needed, because the machine owner teaks out the money and keeps it.

The BTC markup might be a flat fee, which people are already accustomed to at ATMs. Or it might be a percentage. It might be an explicit fee, or it might be hidden in the machine's cash to BTC exchange rate. That exchange rate might be based on live market data, or it might be adjusted less frequently with a proportionately larger markup to cover market variations. Those are implementation details that would need to be worked out, and different machine vendors/owners might take different approaches. The core of the idea remains that it would provide an easier way for a random person to turn cash into BTC, and the machine vendors would presumably provide a product and/or service to make it easier for a random store owner to sell BTC without being an expert in the field.

One of the neat things about this idea is that it could be tried out on a vey small scale... even at a single BTC-accepting business. Compare this to something like ASIC mining hardware (another topic that interests me): Both ideas make sense as things that will be nearly inevitable if and when BTC use grows the way that we want and expect it to. However, the up-front development cost to put the first BTC-selling kiosk in place should be at least an order of magnitude lower than the cost of making that first mining ASIC.

Regarding BTC accepting junk food machines, the biggest problem I see to be solved is how to make sure the user really pays for their candy bar without making them wait 10 minutes for a confirmation before the bar gets dispensed. That's a general hurdle for BTC use that needs to be solved well. Once that problem is solved, I can easily imagine BTC-accepting vending machines sprouting up in places like college campuses, particularly around EE/CS buildings or in dorms at technical schools. Some enterprising student at a place like Caltech or MIT will surely make a BTC-accepting vending machine for their dorm, if it hasn't already been done.
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July 31, 2011, 06:53:24 AM
 #14

Bitcoin Kiosk (ATMs) are going to explode.

I think that'll make it hard to get UL listing for them.  Tongue
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July 31, 2011, 09:17:08 AM
 #15

NF6X Smiley Said it better than me,

Also If you could hook the stacker to the dispenser then the machine may need no fills at all kinda would function like a miner at that point, Just BTC showing up in your account. I mean your worst case scenario is your machine cant take any more money. Id love to meet the guy who would piss and moan about this.

So let see mining rig cost about 1.5K to 3K generates 1/2 BTC per day($30).

Kiosk Rig cost about 1K. Lets say it can sell $1000 @ 5% fee. That's $50 a day. Or would you rather go meet someone you dont know with a large amount of cash.

How much money has went in to mining so far?

Bitcoin Kiosk (ATMs) are going to explode.

...once again, relying on people to pay a premium to change their US dollars into bitcoin to spend them on something they could have paid for in US dollars. Hey, I am all for bitcoin, but this business model is fucking retarded.

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July 31, 2011, 09:39:08 AM
 #16

What about a btc bank card that all you have to do is swipe your card and your account comes up?

Since all the transaction and transfers are made inside the btc bank, no btc can be lost if you lose your card. btc cards can be replaced.

Since all the transaction and transfers are made inside the btc bank, the transaction is instant and you don't have to wait for confirmation.

Like credit cards, the merchant will pay the transaction fees, the customer will just pay cost of whatever they're buying.




Keep it simple, stupid.
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July 31, 2011, 09:58:49 AM
 #17

...once again, relying on people to pay a premium to change their US dollars into bitcoin to spend them on something they could have paid for in US dollars. Hey, I am all for bitcoin, but this business model is fucking retarded.

You say you are all for bitcoin, but see no reason why people would spend bitcoins instead of dollars, or why they would use a bitcoin atm/kiosk.  Maybe they want to buy bitcoins and don't have a bank account to use with an exchange site, or don't have internet access or know how to use mtgox.  Maybe they want to buy something online with bitcoin they can't get locally with dollars.   Maybe they are migrant workers and need to send money back home to their country.  Maybe they obtained some cash they want to save but would prefer not to deposit at a bank.   I can think of many reasons for bitcoin kiosks, I love this idea.

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July 31, 2011, 10:23:33 AM
 #18

...once again, relying on people to pay a premium to change their US dollars into bitcoin to spend them on something they could have paid for in US dollars. Hey, I am all for bitcoin, but this business model is fucking retarded.

You say you are all for bitcoin, but see no reason why people would spend bitcoins instead of dollars, or why they would use a bitcoin atm/kiosk.  Maybe they want to buy bitcoins and don't have a bank account to use with an exchange site, or don't have internet access or know how to use mtgox.  Maybe they want to buy something online with bitcoin they can't get locally with dollars.   Maybe they are migrant workers and need to send money back home to their country.  Maybe they obtained some cash they want to save but would prefer not to deposit at a bank.   I can think of many reasons for bitcoin kiosks, I love this idea.

You are delusional if you think there is any reason for the layman to use bitcoin at this stage of the game. Why pay a tax to deal in volatility? Even with an abundance of vendors dealing in bitcoin, why would you pay a two dollar (or any) service fee to change your perfectly good USD into BTC in order to buy that ice cream cone? For these to become a success, local currencies would have to crumble.

I personally think it would be immoral to encourage an impoverished migrant worker to stake their earnings on currency that might bottom out tomorrow. They work too hard for that kind of bullshit.

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July 31, 2011, 04:01:56 PM
 #19

...once again, relying on people to pay a premium to change their US dollars into bitcoin to spend them on something they could have paid for in US dollars. Hey, I am all for bitcoin, but this business model is fucking retarded.

You say you are all for bitcoin, but see no reason why people would spend bitcoins instead of dollars, or why they would use a bitcoin atm/kiosk.  Maybe they want to buy bitcoins and don't have a bank account to use with an exchange site, or don't have internet access or know how to use mtgox.  Maybe they want to buy something online with bitcoin they can't get locally with dollars.   Maybe they are migrant workers and need to send money back home to their country.  Maybe they obtained some cash they want to save but would prefer not to deposit at a bank.   I can think of many reasons for bitcoin kiosks, I love this idea.

Or to pay workers (over the $600 limit), migrants or otherwise, so there's less paperwork for the IRS (the kind folks there deserve a break, too).

Or at a flea market.

Or at any large event where pickpockets are known to lurk.

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July 31, 2011, 04:33:00 PM
 #20

When i read the thread title i thought people were gonna have to type their address to withdraw BTC; carrying around a QR code of your own address to show when you wanna receive money is indeed much better than having to type the address manually.

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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