Bitcointalk Bounty Hunters' Union?

[nioschka]

Considering the increasing number of the ICO campaigns lately, and especially the number of the swindling ones, I got that crazy (but under the circumstances still apparent) idea – why wouldn’t we make a sort of a “Bitcontalk bounty hunters’ Union”?

Before you start to vomit on me or the idea itself, please care to read the text because you will see that it would benefit not only the labour force, but also the (honest) employers. I’m not claiming that it could be brought to life, but this is completely another question. These are just my thoughts on this subject that I find very important for every person that works for altcoin campaigns on this forum.

So, first of all, why would we need a union?

Like every union in the world, the bounty hunter’s one will be there to protect the rights of the labourers on the forum. The biggest problems that the people who work for the ICO campaigns are facing is the uncertainty about the payments. Campaign owners can disappear with the money, they can indefinitely postpone the payment of the bounties, or lower the rewards of the participants at their will once the job is done (I had many similar experiences of every of the mentioned sorts, and guess each one of you had them if you are here long enough).

How can a Union fight that?

My ideas are the following:

1. Demand the KYC procedure for ICO employers – KYE (know your employer).
Well, they started to demand from the participants of the ICO campaigns to pass the KYC procedure (and some of them manipulate with the results, as well as with the time needed to perform the document verification), so why wouldn’t we ask from them to do the same? If we can check who they are, where they live, what they own, and we have their telephone numbers and skype addresses, then that would be a completely different ball game.

2. Demand an escrow with pre-mined/pre-created tokens/coins designated for the bounty rewards payment.
That wallet will be in the hands of the neutral bounty manager, preferably a member of the union, with the max number of coins designated for the campaign (the “hardcap reached” number of coins). If the campaign doesn’t achieve its goal, or proved to be completely unsuccessful, the proper amount of coins will be given back to the hands of the owner or burned. But it would prevent the arbitrary distribution of tokens, for example, in the case when a certain bounty campaign had a lesser number of participants, and they should receive larger shares of the tokens from the pool designated for that campaign – one of the most common situations in which the bounty owners usually “make a decision” that the rules which they have set at the beginning of the campaign don’t longer apply, and that the participants of these campaign will receive a fixed sum, considerably lower than the sum which they are actually entitled to.

Of course, there are lots of other stuff that a Union could be able to do for its members: organize trainings (in English language, for example) in order to improve the quality of work, achieve communication and arrangements with the government of the forum and negotiate the benefits for its members, and many other interesting stuff. It could also make a sort of a blockchain token that can be used as a “proof of quality”, “proof of improvement”, or something else, the possibilities are vast.

How can a Union achieve all that?

Like with every union that has ever existed, that’s the trickiest part – it has to become large enough to represent the considerable force. In that situation ICO campaigns that are seeking the labourers for their marketing campaigns and don’t want to agree to the terms of the Union, could be faced with the lack of the workers for their campaigns and forced to pay large sums to the agencies that will perform the marketing activities for them. The bottom line is that the only thing an organized group of marketing labourers can do is to deprive the employer of their work.

But a big Union can also make a pressure on the potential swindlers because it would have members from all the countries in the world. I would think twice to cheat on someone if I’m aware of the fact that he knows where I live and that he can visit me in the middle of the night with the bunch of his union friends.

How would employers benefit from the Union?

The first and the obvious benefit would be that – if Union approves their campaign – labourers will have more trust in their project and their honesty, and that would attract more labourers to the project. Secondly, Union could provide them with the information about the workforce and vouch for their quality (based, for example, on some “proof of quality” token, or some database).

How can the Union itself be achieved?

Well, I guess there’s no other way but to work on that. People may think they can achieve something alone, that they are better alone, but the said truth is that a lone worker (or an unorganized bunch of them) is the easiest prey of all for any employer, and that he simply can’t exercise his rights in the situation in which he is scammed or damaged. But if he has a large body that can stand for him and his rights, reach different countries, and maybe, in the future, in some legally regulated circumstances even sue the employer, he wouldn’t be just a candle in the wind.

My guess is that there would be a large number of Bitcontalk bounty hunters who will be interested in the idea, and that the main job will be to reach them on the local forums. That’s why I think that the people from different language communities have to be engaged in the implementation of the idea. The large number of members and activities would also require some sort of the organisational structure, with the representatives from all the language communities in the “management” of the project. I also believe it should be totally free for the members.

Please don’t think of this post as a “Union ICO”, or a ”Union Founding Act”! These are just my thoughts on the subject that I find very important. If you find this subject important, if you have some ideas, or if you find the idea of a Bitcointalk Bounty Hunters’ Union compelling, please share your thoughts and ideas, and maybe, in time we can come up with a structure or a feasible plan how to achieve a better situation for all of us.

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[BQ]

hmm this is a pretty good idea, although it seems like organizing people would be difficult, and then getting ICO teams to actually care about it seems like unlikely

[nioschka]

hmm this is a pretty good idea, although it seems like organizing people would be difficult, and then getting ICO teams to actually care about it seems like unlikely

Yep, extremely difficult. On the other hand, if hunters recognize the value in the Union and if it becomes anywhere near massive, I think ICOs (at least the real startups that have no funds for the expensive agencies) will be forced to recognize it too. Like in the real life - if they can get less then 100 workers to promote their campaign, and campaigns approved by the union have thousands, I believe the balance will be established soon.

[Zeraphine]

Sounds like acrypto-oriented labour union:) pretty a good idea i think. If people unite in order to be more protected, they will achieve more for sure!

[ofeefee]

I think that this is one of the ideas that sound great on paper will will fail dramatically in the real world.
I wish you Good luck, but I am very skeptical about the success of the idea.

[nioschka]

I think that this is one of the ideas that sound great on paper will will fail dramatically in the real world.
I wish you Good luck, but I am very skeptical about the success of the idea.

Don't wish me good luck, I put it here to discuss it, but I'm sure every one of us thought about it, at least once :-) It's just an idea which would be very useful, I think, if we all manage to implement it. If someone has some witty suggestion how we can interview a lots of people to find out what they feel about the Union, please don't hesitate to put it forward. I'm thinking about some poll or something, but maybe someone from some other language community can expose it on his local board to see what kind of reactions he will get?

[JanCoppens]

I like the idea, but why would we have to create a union? I think a platform like Bountyhive will become the go-to platform to launch bounty campaigns, and if they become more transparent, I'd think this will become the best outcome for everyone in the crypto industry.

[makuhpal]

This would be better if those bounty manager wont be too lazy to check if the project or the team behind the project is legit! Most of the scam ICOs are came from the bounty managers which is why we need to check these campaigns for use to be sure that we arent joiming scam projects.Suspiciously these scam projects are somehow connected with the bounty managers!

[Gab20]

I think this idea needs to be well disseminated so that so many people can be aware of it and by so doing, co!e up with their own ideas in form of contributions from their thoughts. I like to always see ideas like this, which will help to foster proper bounty participations.

[cryptorTUX]

Idea is not bad, although there are few things that I find not catchy for me. First of all who will be behind this union? There must be some hierarchy and thus those people at top that manage it will they manage it for free or will they try to make money out of this somehow.
The idea regarding KYE aka Know Your Employer doesn't guarantee anything. Do you understand that people who plan scam and do it on professional level will fake this details? This is how they managed in the past whenever they've required to give KYC because of their campaigns/partnerships they provided false data.

You will probably have ICOs that still will play outside of this union. For instance you even have websites such as bountyhive and bounty0x which don't go through forum.

People made it possible for bounties as they are ready to work for the chance to get money in the future. Mostly people that take part in bounties use their spare time to do so.

[superscommessebitcoin]

I think that this is one of the ideas that sound great on paper will will fail dramatically in the real world.
I wish you Good luck, but I am very skeptical about the success of the idea.

In this case, I agree with ofeefee. I think that this is a good idea, but in a result you have can make that the like an open club, in which will to participate percent 20 man with this forum.

[Ini35]

A collective effort by most bounty hunter, will help to foster this union. It is a good idea to have a union. This made me to remember what i told my friend some times ago, as regards a campaign we participated in , where we were not paid. I said, had it been there is a union, it will help to guide again this mishap. By having a union, project owners will be more be more coordinated and sincere in rewarding bounty hunters at the end of their work for them.

[cryptodagger]

Not necessarily to have a union,because the only problems with the campaigns where are ,less transparency,no assurance that those people behind the team arent going to runaway,that is why these bounty managers should be asking for some IDs and video call to those team behind the projects that they have accepted to,record the video call for you to be sure that they wont runway.

[chaoscoinz]

Sounds like a brilliant idea for a legitimate organization. I for one think that this will be a daunting task to complete successfully, but nothing is impossible. How would you go about organizing this whole plan? The thought of a union brings to mind the thought of a centralized society. Centralization means one thing, authority!
    Many early adopters of crypto joined the movement for the simple fact that it went against traditional views of the modern day establishment. People around the world felt like it put the financial decisions back into the hands of the people. Though I'm all for regulation, being that it will help stabilize the current price fluctuations within market, many will stand against it, being that many members here are from countries where everything is centralized, and see the blockchain as a divine call for the little guy (your regular average joe).

[Melfoy72]

Nice idea, man! I'd like it become a real Union and will  help all of us to resist better against any scam projects and those tricky Bms who likes to change rules after start of a campaign

[nioschka]

First of all who will be behind this union? There must be some hierarchy and thus those people at top that manage it will they manage it for free or will they try to make money out of this somehow.

Yep, that would be a problem. Here's what I think, and you can call me romantic or enthusiast but I actually believe that people can manage to pull it out without money. First, I believe that the representatives from all the language communities must be present in the "top management", and the system must function in such a way that they can be replaceable - so, kind of a system with "top functions" instead of the "top people".

For example, members from the Croatian section can verify campaigns from Croatia, and members from the Indonesian community can verify ICO employers from their land. If it's completely transparent, people will be able to pick up the different tasks from some kind of a board or something (like verifying the docs, making calls to check the employers, meeting with them in person, checking the work of the escrows, or controlling the work of other members who performed some tasks.) If a certain task get enough confirmations - like on the blockchain - than it is considered done. Just a thought, though

the like an open club, in which will to participate percent 20 man with this forum.

Yeah, the "open club" sounds great, nice thinking. I was thinking more like 70-80% of the bounty workers as the force that will be enough to make some rules.

The idea regarding KYE aka Know Your Employer doesn't guarantee anything. Do you understand that people who plan scam and do it on professional level will fake this details? This is how they managed in the past whenever they've required to give KYC because of their campaigns/partnerships they provided false data.

But what if we can meet with them face to face, in person? If a union have enough members from different lands, we would be able to make every sort of verification you can imagine. Then again, it has to become viral among the bounty hunters if we want anything like this to happen.

For instance you even have websites such as bountyhive and bounty0x which don't go through forum.

I don't know how these companies charge for their services, if anyone knows anything about it, maybe he can share it here. I believe that lots of ICOs with limited or no campaign funds at all would prefer a free labor force on the Bitcointalk. Anyway, they are centralized institutions, companies, and they can make their own rules outside the forum. If the union become large enough, it would be easier for it to dictate rules for the labor force and ICOs on the forum, rules that will protect all of us better. On the other hand, it would be the first union of the sort, so who knows what might happen

Mostly people that take part in bounties use their spare time to do so.

Yes, me too I'm a professor of linguistics and a freelance translator, but I really like this crypto stuff and I hate governments. So much that I'm ready to sleep less. I believe that people can manage anything they want if they have the will to do it. If the idea of a "people's union" that would be run by people catch up, who knows, maybe we might all be pleasantly surprised

[nioschka]

The thought of a union brings to mind the thought of a centralized society. Centralization means one thing, authority!

many members here are from countries where everything is centralized, and see the blockchain as a divine call for the little guy

Yeah, I do agree, I'm one of them I hate centralized stuff, too, especially countries and their taxation policies. That's why I was thinking more about some sort of a "people's union" that would be run by people, with functions and tasks as the primary means of running the whole thing - something like a "blockchain union". For example members could pick tasks that they would like to do, or verify those that have been already done: docs verification, calls to employers, writing the emails, investigations about complains, or anything else. Kill me, if I know how to pull it out, ha, ha
  

[nazaididuan1]

Bounty hunters come from all over the world and have different cultural backgrounds!

Maybe some people like to be alone, others like a group!

Many reward managers also have their own telegraph group, with many bounty hunters in it!

The idea of a bounty alliance is great, but there may be some problems with it!

[Radio-Active]

Your suggestion is really good. The hunters already experienced many scam of ICO and an irresponsible managers.
The escrowed reward suggestion is one of the important thing. it is ensure that ICO dev will pay hunters.

[guddnrdl9572]

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Good luck guys!