scenarios if US Govt tried to take down bitcoin?

[Gordon_Freeman]

The bitcoin infrastructure is vulnerable to an attack. It's centralised.

It's greatest strength is that it's decentralized, there is no issuing authority i.e. no top banker pressing a button creating more bitcoins.

I read on another website that the government can confiscate the domain, mess with the dns servers, shutdown the hard coded nodes. You won't be able to rollout new updates because they have the main website. Note: All this infrastructure is located in the United States. I'll try find the site, but it's a really popular forum. It's as easy as shutting down a botnet. They will destroy confidence. Furthermore, the wealthy elites don't have their money in bitcoin. Warren Buffet, George Soros, and other billionaires aren't moving their money into bitcoin. Even a small guy like Peter Schiff says it's stupid.

Bitcoin is a p2p network... meaning you can hack/takedown as many pieces of the network as you want but as long as one survives the entire network survives.  Obviously the billionaires aren't moving their money into bitcoin!  When you have offshore bank accounts, stocks, investment funds, etc etc why the F would you start putting your money in a brand new uncertain digital currency?  Furthermore, it's not just about where you put your money, it's where you put your faith.  These guys would be betting against their own country if they moved their money outside the dollar.  It's like if they were to start buying Chinese bonds: that's borderline treason.  Not gonna happen.
On the subject of China: has anyone considered that China's interest in bitcoin could be in part an attack on the dollar's supremacy?

Also Schiff is one of the most respectable economists out there but there's some stupid s**t that comes out of his mouth.  He has a vested interest in the system, keep that in mind.

I'm pretty new here and to bitcoin so anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.  The above post just 100% contradicts everything I have learned so far.

[FallingKnife]

Very interesting discussion.

Really, to totally kill Bitcoin they need to break the encryption. Instead of spending billions to buy all the bitcoins and make you all rich, or passing laws that they can't enforce, they would spend their time/money on efforts defeat the encryption. This would send their message that cryptocoins are inherently unsafe. Their ability to defeat the encryption (if they haven't already) should only increase over time.  If they break Bitcoin, then no typical altcoin is safe and we would looking and needing start over with something magnitudes of orders stronger, and not based on a standard where NSA has had any working-group influence.

Will Bitcoin's encryption be safe 5 years from now? 10, or even 20?  Cryptography thought to be impenetrable during WWII can be broken by your android phone today. At some point, SHA256 will not be enough. I don't know when that will be, exactly, but it makes me curious about what options their will be, if any, to migrate the value of our btc to a stronger SHA512 algorithm, or to a different currency altogether.  

One realworld parallel would be the arms race between governments and counterfeiters with paper currency, requring special papers, inks, serial codes, etc.  It's naive to think that SHA256 is the strongest algo that the world will ever need, for all time.

Perhaps this problem has already been solved by btc deep thinkers and I'm late to the party.

[crumbs]

The system is huge, complex, and has grown ever dependent on itself. It is a house of cards, a lumbering dinosaur, and not nearly as nefarious as some of you think.

+1
The government generally isn't bad as in evil, generally its bad as in incompetent.  
Problem is, when you have the monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish, it amounts to about the same thing.
It wants to do the right thing, but usually since that means not doing anything, it gets that part wrong and does something anyhow and poorly.

"...monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish."  
Lol, i take it you'd rather have everyone kill, steal and impoverish?  What a wacky, wonderful world that would be!

Soapbox rhetoric aside, governments have pretty lousy monopolies on murder, as anyone on the receiving end of "stand your ground" laws would tell you if the sucker could talk.
Some governments are so bad at killing they don't even kill murderers -- the free market killing entrepreneurs.
Some monopoly

As far as wholesale theft/impoverishment goes, i'd say folks here are doing just fine without any government help.  Check the securities subforum.
Money-revolutionary known as DPR tried to do some murdering too, but he botched that up.  Oh well, maybe next time

Incompetent and archaic as nation-states may be, they appear to control approximately 100% of this here planet Earth, while neo-anarco-capital-libertarian-whatevers control exactly goose egg.
Go figure.

[NewLiberty]

The system is huge, complex, and has grown ever dependent on itself. It is a house of cards, a lumbering dinosaur, and not nearly as nefarious as some of you think.

+1
The government generally isn't bad as in evil, generally its bad as in incompetent.  
Problem is, when you have the monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish, it amounts to about the same thing.
It wants to do the right thing, but usually since that means not doing anything, it gets that part wrong and does something anyhow and poorly.

"...monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish."  
Lol, i take it you'd rather have everyone kill, steal and impoverish?  What a wacky, wonderful world that would be!

Soapbox rhetoric aside, governments have pretty lousy monopolies on murder, as anyone on the receiving end of "stand your ground" laws would tell you if the sucker could talk.
Some governments are so bad at killing they don't even kill murderers -- the free market killing entrepreneurs.
Some monopoly

As far as wholesale theft/impoverishment goes, i'd say folks here are doing just fine without any government help.  Check the securities subforum.
Money-revolutionary known as DPR tried to do some murdering too, but he botched that up.  Oh well, maybe next time

Incompetent and archaic as nation-states may be, they appear to control approximately 100% of this here planet Earth, while neo-anarco-capital-libertarian-whatevers control exactly goose egg.
Go figure.

Looks like we agree then.  Despite having the franchised monopoly power on all those, they are incompetent at enforcing it.

[crumbs]

The system is huge, complex, and has grown ever dependent on itself. It is a house of cards, a lumbering dinosaur, and not nearly as nefarious as some of you think.

+1
The government generally isn't bad as in evil, generally its bad as in incompetent.  
Problem is, when you have the monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish, it amounts to about the same thing.
It wants to do the right thing, but usually since that means not doing anything, it gets that part wrong and does something anyhow and poorly.

"...monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish."  
Lol, i take it you'd rather have everyone kill, steal and impoverish?  What a wacky, wonderful world that would be!

Soapbox rhetoric aside, governments have pretty lousy monopolies on murder, as anyone on the receiving end of "stand your ground" laws would tell you if the sucker could talk.
Some governments are so bad at killing they don't even kill murderers -- the free market killing entrepreneurs.
Some monopoly

As far as wholesale theft/impoverishment goes, i'd say folks here are doing just fine without any government help.  Check the securities subforum.
Money-revolutionary known as DPR tried to do some murdering too, but he botched that up.  Oh well, maybe next time

Incompetent and archaic as nation-states may be, they appear to control approximately 100% of this here planet Earth, while neo-anarco-capital-libertarian-whatevers control exactly goose egg.
Go figure.

Looks like we agree then.  Despite having the franchised monopoly power on all those, they are incompetent at enforcing it.

"Franchised monopoly"?  Lol, a government in this case is both the franchisor & the franchise.  You got to stay away form them soapbox words

The proof of nation-state success is success itself -- the fact that our entire *planet* is controlled by nation-states.
Thus far you're yet to show any product, regardless of the Liberstriation you subscribe to.
All you have done thus far is critique.  As they say, the most dispensable person in the theater is the critic

[UncleBobs]

They will do it in two ways.  The velvet glove, and the steel fist.

The velvet glove is that they will tempt greedy bitcoin users, developers, entrepreneurs, and spokespeople to acquiesce in the formation of a "safe" bitcoin, which allows them influence and control through requiring their blessing, and giving assurances that all government laws will be followed, from those relating to child porn to drug smuggling to tax evasion.  The general public (sheep) will heave a big sigh of releif, and mass adoption will follow.

This will provoke a response by those bitcoiners who refuse to participate, develop their own clients, or even a forked blockchain.  After some time, users of this "dark, unregulated, anonymous, and illegal" bitcoin will  suddenly start having their front doors kicked in by SWAT teams, and will be charged with enabling all manner of horrific crimes.

Then the real revolution begins.

[visionary]

north？iran？china？

i think it will  push up price

The economic for freedom，The government for management

[Anon136]

They will do it in two ways.  The velvet glove, and the steel fist.

The velvet glove is that they will tempt greedy bitcoin users, developers, entrepreneurs, and spokespeople to acquiesce in the formation of a "safe" bitcoin, which allows them influence and control through requiring their blessing, and giving assurances that all government laws will be followed, from those relating to child porn to drug smuggling to tax evasion.  The general public (sheep) will heave a big sigh of releif, and mass adoption will follow.

This will provoke a response by those bitcoiners who refuse to participate, develop their own clients, or even a forked blockchain.  After some time, users of this "dark, unregulated, anonymous, and illegal" bitcoin will  suddenly start having their front doors kicked in by SWAT teams, and will be charged with enabling all manner of horrific crimes.

Then the real revolution begins.

i think this is a pretty good analysis in one sense, and it may be accurate, but i think it overlooks something important. The government isnt ACTUALLY concerned about child porn or and less than you might imagine about drug smuggling and tax collecting. the real threat that bitcoin represents to them is its potential for undermining their monopoly over the issuance of currency. this is where they get the vast majority of their power. taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to the power the get from the printing press. what you have outlined above does not solve this problem, it does not allow them to reclaim their monopoly over currency issuance. What ever solution they attempt will probably have to be ultimately aimed at reclaiming their most important monopoly.

[UncleBobs]

I agree they are not sincerely concerned about drugs & porn, they use those issues to elicit a knee-jerk compliance response from the masses.  

But taxes? Yes, that is their bread and butter.  And there are many people here who would go along with complying with the IRS.  It's a problem of "creeping regulations" that Bitcoin will face.  They will not ask for the whole pie at once, they are much too cunning for that!

The salient thing is that it will divide the community along lines which are already beginning to form, with the BTF  on one side, and unSystem on the other.  As the stakes get higher, the pressure to sell out will increase.  Soon, the official protocol may be shot through with compromises, and BTC v1.0 may become their tool, not ours.

EDIT: These guys will give the USG a big helping hand, IMHO
https://robocoinkiosk.com/compliance

Nice avatar, by the way, I'm a big fan of Hoppe  

[User705]

Taxes are no longer their bread and butter.   They used to be when people used gold since it physically had to be taken from the population and into the government coffers but that's no longer needed with the advent of a central bank printing press.  Bitcoin is no different.  ASICs are still bought with fiat and bitcoins still get exchanged for fiat.  Government doesn't need to take down bitcoin since it is not a threat in any meaningful way.

[cdog]

Buying, selling, trading, or accepting Bitcoin or doing business with a foreign Bitcoin-affiliated company becomes a Federal crime in the USA.

The punishment for violating the law in any way whatsoever is life imprisonment.

I think people in the USA would stop using BTC pretty quickly, and its value would drop close to zero if all NATO countries followed suit.

If Bitcoin ever becomes big enough to actually threaten the hegemony of the dollar, I expect to see these types of laws.

[tvbcof]

Buying, selling, trading, or accepting Bitcoin or doing business with a foreign Bitcoin-affiliated company becomes a Federal crime in the USA.

The punishment for violating the law in any way whatsoever is life imprisonment.

I think people in the USA would stop using BTC pretty quickly, and its value would drop close to zero if all NATO countries followed suit.

If Bitcoin ever becomes big enough to actually threaten the hegemony of the dollar, I expect to see these types of laws.

Totalitarian law and draconian punishment is possible, and history is rife with examples, but it's not something that is possible to flip on like a light switch.  Nor is it without it's own whole set of problems.  If you punish to many people, you will be pissing of a much larger portion of society who has a friend or family member who was unfairly treated.  At that point you lose the cooperation of society and losing control is only a matter of time.

The 'powers that be' are, I believe, perfectly capable of making rational and far-sighted policy decisions.  They will typically choose the least bad course of action.  It is a mistake to underestimate one's adversaries, and generally speaking the people who are in positions of power did not get there by being stupid.

[crumbs]

Taxes are no longer their bread and butter.   They used to be when people used gold since it physically had to be taken from the population and into the government coffers but that's no longer needed with the advent of a central bank printing press.  Bitcoin is no different.  ASICs are still bought with fiat and bitcoins still get exchanged for fiat.  Government doesn't need to take down bitcoin since it is not a threat in any meaningful way.

Taxes are still pretty important to governments
Taking your money removes it from circulation and keeps the whole tax service industry productive & contributing to your country's economy.

Taxation also appeases the folks who think printing money is wrong.  Imagine the grumbling when your government announces "Don't worry about taxes any more!  From now on we're simply printing moar money to pay for everything "

Finally, if bitcoin does get used as money someday, the government should become concerned.  Since bitcoins can't be printed, government printing presses would become obsolete, making them difficult to sell to dumber governments on EBay.

Yep, i brain about this stuff all the time 

[MaxBTC1]

sell sell sell sell sell.

Wait for price to stabilise after two months...buy back in.  Enjoy price rise and then sell before rest of the world follows the US Govt.

[NewLiberty]

All you have done thus far is critique.  As they say, the most dispensable person in the theater is the critic

Ought I leave that role to you alone?

The notion that something is perfect, or even best, simply because it succeeded is the death of innovation.

[jasonjm]

Government can kill bitcoin in a 2 pronged attack in conjunction with other governments acting simultaneously (the EU would be very happy to help for one).

done at the same time by multiple governments, this will be a bitcoin death blow:

1) kill and ban all the exchanges, this blocks fiat getting in and out of BTC
2) use Deep Packet inspection to block all BTC related traffic at the major internet traffic hubs.

[NewLiberty]

Government can kill bitcoin in a 2 pronged attack in conjunction with other governments acting simultaneously (the EU would be very happy to help for one).

done at the same time by multiple governments, this will be a bitcoin death blow:

1) kill and ban all the exchanges, this blocks fiat getting in and out of BTC
2) use Deep Packet inspection to block all BTC related traffic at the major internet traffic hubs.

One problem with this strategy is the rule of law.
First the activity would have to become illegal for law to be enforced against it.
Governments could adopt totalitarianism and dispense with law, substituting martial law, thus dispensing with the illusion of the consent of the governed.  But Bitcoin is much less any government's problem than it is the central banks.  Governments may just as well want free of the debtor's prison into which they have been conned.

[jubalix]

only white list trading legal would all the govt needs to do if transfers not anon.

[Rupture]

They certaibly have the resources and the funding to launch a 51% attack if they wanted to. :/

[UncleBobs]

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