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Author Topic: My loaded 100 BTC Casascius Bearer Bar  (Read 14137 times)
Lauda
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May 21, 2019, 09:47:05 PM
 #101

Excellent question...I just faintly remember reading something about Mike changing his holos after that DefCon conference where it was "hacked", so it couldn't be done going forward.
Doesn't really matter. Incentives prevent this from being widespread, and thus it will never be a real issue.

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May 21, 2019, 11:08:17 PM
 #102

If I were you I'd be speaking with a high end auction house here... I mean you're talking minimum of $1m valuation. Given the rarity it's probably more in the region of $3-4m and perhaps as high as $10m if done through the right channels.
I.e. the buyer will want legal assurances you have not somehow got the private key from the thing, perhaps independent inspection. 

Chrysties may be a good starting place to reach out to...

https://www.christies.com/locations/salerooms/king-street/



It's already been proven you can take the hologram off of a casaius coin and reattach it with only a pin prick on it being able to tell.

KY Jelly, where has this been proven? And...is it the older holograms he used, the ones I believe they hacked at DefCon?


If you already knew why did you Ask? :p

https://www.coindesk.com/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins

There is the link incase anyone is interested in the read.

I didn't know for sure that's what you were referring too. I also wanted to point out that if that was indeed what you were referring to, that it doesn't apply to all Casascius coins.

Chi Which ones do they not applied to?  The ones that were lasered around the edges or were different cas holos that are more subject to this kind of attack?

The melt ring on the holos, like the silvers have, prevents this attack.

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May 21, 2019, 11:55:50 PM
 #103

If I were you I'd be speaking with a high end auction house here... I mean you're talking minimum of $1m valuation. Given the rarity it's probably more in the region of $3-4m and perhaps as high as $10m if done through the right channels.
I.e. the buyer will want legal assurances you have not somehow got the private key from the thing, perhaps independent inspection. 

Chrysties may be a good starting place to reach out to...

https://www.christies.com/locations/salerooms/king-street/



It's already been proven you can take the hologram off of a casaius coin and reattach it with only a pin prick on it being able to tell.

KY Jelly, where has this been proven? And...is it the older holograms he used, the ones I believe they hacked at DefCon?


If you already knew why did you Ask? :p

https://www.coindesk.com/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins

There is the link incase anyone is interested in the read.

I didn't know for sure that's what you were referring too. I also wanted to point out that if that was indeed what you were referring to, that it doesn't apply to all Casascius coins.

Chi Which ones do they not applied to?  The ones that were lasered around the edges or were different cas holos that are more subject to this kind of attack?

The melt ring on the holos, like the silvers have, prevents this attack.
I figured it was the melt rings that helped just didnt know if the series 3 holos had any different adhesive to further prevent this

.
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JohnGalt
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December 04, 2020, 10:42:59 AM
 #104

Well, here we are nearly 3 years later and I still have the 100 BTC bar.

I got busy and I never got around to trading it. Anyway, the price was dropping so there was no hurry. Well, now that the bar is worth almost $2 million again, I thought I should establish some provenance in case I hold it for another few years. Unfortunately, I didn't take advantage of Mike's offer to sign a statement saying that I bought the bar from him, so this is the best I can do.

The following is my original April 15, 2018 post, signed using my account's signing address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg55749015#msg55749015):

Quote
Many years ago, I bought a loaded 100 BTC Casascius Bearer Bar. Now, its value has gone up so much that I no longer feel comfortable holding it.

The first bits are 1Gop7ok6. It is version 2. I don't have any good pictures but I will take some if there is interest.

I don't want to peel it, but I don't know anyone that can afford to buy it. Is there anyone here might be interested in buying it?

Some stats from uberbills:

143 100 BTC Bearer Bars were made.
91 have been peeled.
11 were opened last year.
1 has been opened so far this year.
There are only 52 left (12 are v1 and 40 are v2).

Also, 1344 Casascius coins and bars were opened last year. 357 have been opened since the beginning of this year. They are getting more and more scarce.

19mzFU4zFrZHkAkHSUta6LapJ6fTFJyhiH
H4F9vVJE0FfHJDnZw9LDOR7XywQUvowJJdYifufm74LDS5xuD1DzILTxkYQWQwyuYM7Nb2S/5FL0DZEU8F9v92I=

The following is a statement of ownership, signed using my account's signing address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg55749015#msg55749015):
Quote
Today is December 4, 2020. I own the 100 BTC Casascius Bearer Bar with first bits 1Gop7ok6. I bought it directly from Mike Caldwell in 2012, and it has remained in my possession since then.

19mzFU4zFrZHkAkHSUta6LapJ6fTFJyhiH
H64jsIbQ3pQ99eL4v+/s59UYslRvCtQY/dldFtRHCD/WM/zPXSDAzg4jE1YY/HrYzhzfacrv4ydjk3TcVcwXV9o=

Trade physical bitcoins: Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Collectibles
My signing address: 19mzFU4zFrZHkAkHSUta6LapJ6fTFJyhiH
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December 04, 2020, 10:55:33 AM
 #105


The following is my original April 15, 2018 post, signed using my account's signing address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg55749015#msg55749015):



You're linking to a signing address you posted today, which doesn't prove anything. Can you sign a message from an old address like this one: 1P1nsECBk5HoSJeQVNdsarpAybz1LHrs1X (linked to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1687999.msg17041076#msg17041076)


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December 04, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
 #106

I have a feeling that this point your bar could probably be sold at Sotheby's.



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December 04, 2020, 12:07:27 PM
 #107

.

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December 04, 2020, 12:43:11 PM
Merited by M-BTC (1)
 #108

The following is my original April 15, 2018 post, signed using my account's signing address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg55749015#msg55749015):
You're linking to a signing address you posted today, which doesn't prove anything. Can you sign a message from an old address like this one: 1P1nsECBk5HoSJeQVNdsarpAybz1LHrs1X (linked to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1687999.msg17041076#msg17041076)

That's a good suggestion, but I can't find the wallet used to send the bitcoins in that specific transaction. However, I can sign a message using an address from an earlier transaction:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On May 29, 2016, in the post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1483586.msg15004658#msg15004658, I acknowledged sending 1.1 BTC to address  1FSeDLeN8Hr4UHBSeoNcNX5gy8oKFHx7pB in the transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/a5314766167ca46047297739924f091834d2e72362de61fd417c0c7126ba6333, from the address 1Mh9qhPjVYtCSNDFVU5ygNux3bXBdr57L9, which is used to sign this message.
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
Version: Bitcoin-qt (1.0)
Address: 1Mh9qhPjVYtCSNDFVU5ygNux3bXBdr57L9

IL1tHKcs00suqkSe6/Qn+EZv6r77luYv3/qPkkCxuUhNXpMD6n+rj611ZzlkC7cn/dY3X21dG+0QqhjzHtJ9N1Q=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----

Trade physical bitcoins: Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Collectibles
My signing address: 19mzFU4zFrZHkAkHSUta6LapJ6fTFJyhiH
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December 04, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
 #109

The following is my original April 15, 2018 post, signed using my account's signing address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg55749015#msg55749015):
You're linking to a signing address you posted today, which doesn't prove anything. Can you sign a message from an old address like this one: 1P1nsECBk5HoSJeQVNdsarpAybz1LHrs1X (linked to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1687999.msg17041076#msg17041076)

That's a good suggestion, but I can't find the wallet used to send the bitcoins in that specific transaction. However, I can sign a message using an address from an earlier transaction:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On May 29, 2016, in the post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1483586.msg15004658#msg15004658, I acknowledged sending 1.1 BTC to address  1FSeDLeN8Hr4UHBSeoNcNX5gy8oKFHx7pB in the transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/a5314766167ca46047297739924f091834d2e72362de61fd417c0c7126ba6333, from the address 1Mh9qhPjVYtCSNDFVU5ygNux3bXBdr57L9, which is used to sign this message.
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
Version: Bitcoin-qt (1.0)
Address: 1Mh9qhPjVYtCSNDFVU5ygNux3bXBdr57L9

IL1tHKcs00suqkSe6/Qn+EZv6r77luYv3/qPkkCxuUhNXpMD6n+rj611ZzlkC7cn/dY3X21dG+0QqhjzHtJ9N1Q=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----


Verified!


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December 04, 2020, 12:56:30 PM
 #110

that has got to be one of the best, if not the best, investments you made right there!

Mine BTC @ kano.is Offering escrow services https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5154480
Get your own Ballet Wallet here! BalletCrypto.com use coupon code "MMLLC5off" for 5% off
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December 07, 2020, 03:00:02 AM
 #111

To be fair,
If you wanted to sell it, I would contact the likes of Changpeng Zhao (binance), winklevoss twins, Michael Saylor (Microstrategies), Robert Kiyosaki, @jack (twitter) ....

Any of those super heavy loaded VIP that have interest in crypto.

Going to Sotheby will incur you a 8-10% fee.  And probably a capital gain tax. And then you will have to buy again crypto with the dirty fiat from the sale ..... 

Selling it for 100BTC + xx premium  in BTC should just be a "barter" transaction and maybe no tax (to be checked).

it ain't much but it's honest work
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December 07, 2020, 05:23:09 AM
 #112

I have a feeling that this point your bar could probably be sold at Sotheby's.

I’m certain it would get peeled long before considering an auction house sale that would take a ~13% cut.


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December 07, 2020, 05:35:51 AM
 #113

To be fair,
If you wanted to sell it, I would contact the likes of Changpeng Zhao (binance), winklevoss twins, Michael Saylor (Microstrategies), Robert Kiyosaki, @jack (twitter) ....

Any of those super heavy loaded VIP that have interest in crypto.

Going to Sotheby will incur you a 8-10% fee.  And probably a capital gain tax. And then you will have to buy again crypto with the dirty fiat from the sale .....  

Selling it for 100BTC + xx premium  in BTC should just be a "barter" transaction and maybe no tax (to be checked).


If he is USA based the answer is no.

Like kind transaction only works for real easte.

This is due to President Trumps 2018 Tax reform.

Personally I think its a burden to own it just peel it move 99.5  btc out of it then work on the forked money.

Once it is emptied sell it peeled and be done with it.


Cash some coins and pay some tax .  then enjoy the profits.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 07, 2020, 05:36:37 AM
 #114

I have a feeling that this point your bar could probably be sold at Sotheby's.

I’m certain it would get peeled long before considering an auction house sale that would take a ~13% cut.

Well yeah not worth a 13% cut unless it made sense to.  

John, honest truth is it probably won't sell here nor anywhere really.  A piece this expensive is either peel or hodl that's your 2 choices with this piece.  Sotheby's wouldn't get a premium that would be worth it...yet.  probably soon (2023-2025) cas pieces will be as coveted as other coveted art pieces.  

.
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SwissFrank
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December 07, 2020, 08:32:27 AM
 #115

Hi!
You should reach Niklas Nikolajsen, founder of Bitcoin Suisse. He is a gold collector and the proud owner of a 25 BTC Casascius.
Check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IF4TUt1D94 (14:00).
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December 07, 2020, 08:45:28 AM
 #116

Just stumbled upon this thread, I assume that you're based in the States and would want to transact in person there, are you in any particular rush or having held this for so long are you happy to wait a few months for an offer higher than 115BTC?

I'm presently traveling for a few months and leave my BTC on Ledger Blue wallets in bank's safety deposit boxes, ideally my next visit to the States wouldn't be until January 2019.

I am in no particular hurry, except that the high BTC goes, the harder it will be to sell it.

Likely any buyer would already have the bitcoins, as in my case, so the USD rate doesn't really matter that much (so long as one doesn't mind making large amounts of value much less liquid in return for this cool collectable cold storage), I'm happy to offer you 120 BTC (regardless of what the USD/BTC value is when we complete) and exchange face to face at a mutually agreed lawyer's offices* in the States in January 2019 (I'm based in LA, but could fly in to NY np) or if you fancy a trip to Europe before then and don't mind bringing it over with you then I could do it in July - Aug - part Sept - Channel Islands (UK), part Sept - Greece, Oct - Madrid, Nov - Barcelona.

*A simple sales contract having being drawn up to show our details, the transfer of ownership and the relevant BTC addies, the lawyer effectively escrowing by holding the bar until the payment coins confirm at your given receiving addie, a couple of hours max or so depending on how many confirmations you'd like.

I remember watching this a bit back then, I always just assumed this deal had happened and never thought on it any further. Where you guys just unable to meet on a price or was it the timing of it all.

Either way good luck with the sale or peeling wherever this ends.

msin
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December 08, 2020, 10:35:29 PM
 #117

Personally I would just peel and store funds on a trezor. There are numerous risks with holding a Cas with this much value. Fire/Water damage, theft, degrading of private key under hologram, compromised Cas private keys (yes I know it's highly unlikely). It'll be difficult and not really worth the premium to find a buyer, so I'd just peel, redeem all the forks, buy a new car  Smiley, and hold the 100btc on something that you know is more secure and password protected.
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December 09, 2020, 06:45:43 AM
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 #118

Personally I would just peel and store funds on a trezor. There are numerous risks with holding a Cas with this much value. Fire/Water damage, theft, degrading of private key under hologram, compromised Cas private keys (yes I know it's highly unlikely). It'll be difficult and not really worth the premium to find a buyer, so I'd just peel, redeem all the forks, buy a new car  Smiley, and hold the 100btc on something that you know is more secure and password protected.

I feel like peeling it would be wrong. There are only 48 unpeeled bars left, and the closer that number gets to 0, the more important it is to keep the bar whole.

Trade physical bitcoins: Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Collectibles
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December 09, 2020, 07:02:20 AM
 #119

The chance of fire/water damage and theft can easily be mitigated by taking enough safety measures when storing it. Hopefully teeGUMES' Canary Thread gives you peace of mind about the odds of degrading private keys but it appears that Mike has done his best to make sure the private keys are well preserved.

Regarding the importance of the bar, I totally think you're right on that one. Depending on Bitcoin's success in the coming years, these bars could turn into modern era artifacts.

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December 09, 2020, 02:14:46 PM
 #120

Any pictures of it?
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