MASTERCOIN VS BITCOIN - First Speculation thread ever

[bitwhizz]

First Speculation thread for Mastercoin VS Bitcoin ever

I am proud to be one of the first in the speculation section to make a speculation thread on Mastercoin and tieing it too Bitcoin, for the sake of speculation  


BTC - 21 million coins                                                MSC  - 600k  -Mastercoins
Market cap - 4 billion dollars                                       44 million dollars
Price per BTC - $420                                                   price per Mastercoin - $105
World GDP right now is around 53 trillion               Total derivatives market in the world -$1.2 quadrillion in value
BTC is divisible                                                     MSC is divisible
Ratio BTC/ MSC-----  1                           :                     40
each fraction of MSC in relation to bitcoins coin cap  is currently therefore 0.25/40 = 0.00625 = $2.50 MSC/21MILLION (just for speculative purposes) in relation with Coin cap


A good explanation of mastercoin speculative value is written below by Luckybit in an easy to understand manner

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Yes please read the thread. You'll learn a lot about Mastercoin and ColoredCoin.
Unlike DillPickleChips, I believe with over a 180 trillion dollar market cap for derivatives in the US alone there is plenty of room for both Mastercoin and ColoredCoin.
My reason for preferring Mastercoin is that it does not depend on Bitcoin being stable and isn't backed by Bitcoin, you don't have to worry about Bitcoin or even know what Bitcoin is. Mastercoin is high level enough and can be built in such a way that you don't have to directly interact with Bitcoin to play with it. Perhaps ColoredCoin will reach that state too but ColoredCoin has a lot less development funding, a lot less momentum, and my opinion is you should hedge your bets on this. Get some Mastercoins while they are "a steal" cheap and if you see a clone which is even better than buy the cloneCoin and you'll probably profit from them both as the market is big enough for many players.
Bitcoin has around a 2.5 billion dollar market cap. So to put this into perspective we are talking about a market cap in the trillions of dollars for Mastercoin, the clone, Bitshares and ColoredCoin. 100 Mastercoins could easily be worth over a million dollars and right now it's at a price of around 10 Bitcoins so that is a very cheap gamble. It has a similar amount of risk to buying Bitcoins at the current price and if you think it will go up to $1000 then perhaps buying it at $200 isn't much of a risk.
The good news is if you do buy Bitcoins and Mastercoins only you'll probably watch the price of both go up because they are in synergy, in symbiosis. Mastercoin is what will help drive the price of Bitcoin into the $100,000 range so that 10 Bitcoins is a million dollars. So when I say 100 Mastercoins is a million dollars I'm assuming the price of Mastercoins will stay exactly as it is right now forever at 0.1 BTC.
But if you want my true opinion, I believe it will be at least 3-4 BTC per Mastercoin even if there were half a dozen clones, Bitshares, etc. The reason is you have to consider the amount of marketshare Mastercoin will have when compared to the clones, to Bitshares, and to ColoredCoin. Even if it has a very small amount of market share in a 100+ trillion dollar market cap it's a ridiculous amount of money so I advise you to take out your spread sheet and do the math for yourself and if you decide to take the risk only risk what you can afford to lose.
To move beyond speculation, I have personally tested the decentralized Mastercoin exchange prototype and it was a smooth sail. The fact that it's only early November and the prototype is working indicates to me that a nice polished client can be available sometime in December. Mastercoin as far as I know is the first of the decentralized exchanges to be successfully tested but I hear rumors that ColoredCoin had something working in 2012.

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Some more speculative fuel - by OP

MasterCoins features will things like betting for instance a decentralised satoshi dice being added to the protocol- lets call it Masterdice, satoshi dice was sold for $12 million, therefore if one feature of mastercoin could generate $12 million feature, whats happens when theirs hundred of useful features !? Speculate

Speculate the price of mastercoin in one year!

For more info on Mastercoin, see my signature!

[1715481110]

1715481110

[1715481110]

1715481110

[marcelus]

First Speculation thread for Mastercoin VS Bitcoin ever

I am proud to be one of the first in the speculation forum to make a speculation thread on Mastercoin and tieing it too Bitcoin, for the sake of speculation  


BTC - 21 million coins                                                MSC  - 600k  -Mastercons
Market cap - 4 billion dollars                                       44 million dollars
Price per BTC - $420                                                   price per mastercoin - $105
World GDP right now is around 53 trillion               Total derivatives market in the world -$1.2 quadrillion in value
BTC is divisible                                                     MSC is divisible
Ratio BTC/ MSC-----  1                           :                     40
each fraction of MSC in relation to bitcoins coin cap  is currently therefore 0.25/40 = 0.00625 = $2.50 MSC/21MILLION (just for speculative purposes) in relation with Coin cap


A good explanation of mastercoin speculative value is written below by Luckybit in an easy to understand manner

----------------------------

Yes please read the thread. You'll learn a lot about Mastercoin and ColoredCoin.
Unlike DillPickleChips, I believe with over a 180 trillion dollar market cap for derivatives in the US alone there is plenty of room for both Mastercoin and ColoredCoin.
My reason for preferring Mastercoin is that it does not depend on Bitcoin being stable and isn't backed by Bitcoin, you don't have to worry about Bitcoin or even know what Bitcoin is. Mastercoin is high level enough and can be built in such a way that you don't have to directly interact with Bitcoin to play with it. Perhaps ColoredCoin will reach that state too but ColoredCoin has a lot less development funding, a lot less momentum, and my opinion is you should hedge your bets on this. Get some Mastercoins while they are "a steal" cheap and if you see a clone which is even better than buy the cloneCoin and you'll probably profit from them both as the market is big enough for many players.
Bitcoin has around a 2.5 billion dollar market cap. So to put this into perspective we are talking about a market cap in the trillions of dollars for Mastercoin, the clone, Bitshares and ColoredCoin. 100 Mastercoins could easily be worth over a million dollars and right now it's at a price of around 10 Bitcoins so that is a very cheap gamble. It has a similar amount of risk to buying Bitcoins at the current price and if you think it will go up to $1000 then perhaps buying it at $200 isn't much of a risk.
The good news is if you do buy Bitcoins and Mastercoins only you'll probably watch the price of both go up because they are in synergy, in symbiosis. Mastercoin is what will help drive the price of Bitcoin into the $100,000 range so that 10 Bitcoins is a million dollars. So when I say 100 Mastercoins is a million dollars I'm assuming the price of Mastercoins will stay exactly as it is right now forever at 0.1 BTC.
But if you want my true opinion, I believe it will be at least 3-4 BTC per Mastercoin even if there were half a dozen clones, Bitshares, etc. The reason is you have to consider the amount of marketshare Mastercoin will have when compared to the clones, to Bitshares, and to ColoredCoin. Even if it has a very small amount of market share in a 100+ trillion dollar market cap it's a ridiculous amount of money so I advise you to take out your spread sheet and do the math for yourself and if you decide to take the risk only risk what you can afford to lose.
To move beyond speculation, I have personally tested the decentralized Mastercoin exchange prototype and it was a smooth sail. The fact that it's only early November and the prototype is working indicates to me that a nice polished client can be available sometime in December. Mastercoin as far as I know is the first of the decentralized exchanges to be successfully tested but I hear rumors that ColoredCoin had something working in 2012.

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Speculate the price of mastercoin in one year!

For more info on Mastercoin, see my signature!

I'm very very excited about MSC but a lot of the arguments here are flawed.

You can't assume it will infiltrate the derivatives market just like that. Bitcoins and mastercoins are new technologies that create new markets far more than they disrupt current ones. Like bitcoin, it will probably create many new users who will start buying and selling shares who never would have traded a derivative in their life before this opportunity. Anyway, I still don't like the comparison of using current markets. I prefer to look at it like, BTC is useful for moving money around the world extremely quickly at a low cost (with the added bonus that it can be anonymous). The mastercoin protocol is useful as it allows not only this but also allows people to trade shares, trade currencies, bet, lend, hedge and do pretty much anything they would do with their money in the real world without having to go near an institution that charges fees for granting access to these opportunities. 

Further, just purely looking at the maths, since only 600k of MSC were minted, if they achieve anything like the adoption of BTC, their price will be far far higher than 3/4 times BTC. 100 times higher maybe.

[bitwhizz]

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Further, just purely looking at the maths, since only 600k of MSC were minted, if they achieve anything like the adoption of BTC, their price will be far far higher than 3/4 times BTC. 100 times higher maybe.

[vokain]

This is Exodus.

[theonewhowaskazu]

Derivatives are by definition derived from something. MSC's worth isn't derived from anything. Therefore it isn't a derivative, and since it doesn't have nearly the network advantage Bitcoin has, its just another crapcoin, only marginally more crappy than the others due to the fact that it also bloats the blockchain.

[bitwhizz]

Derivatives are by definition derived from something. MSC's worth isn't derived from anything. Therefore it isn't a derivative, and since it doesn't have nearly the network advantage Bitcoin has, its just another crapcoin, only marginally more crappy than the others due to the fact that it also bloats the blockchain.

Not true, Mastercoins worth is derived from the bitcoin block chain and the features made on it through the protocol 

[Le Happy Merchant]

Not true, Mastercoins worth is derived from the bitcoin block chain and the features made on it through the protocol  

Semantic dancing is the tactic of morons, cowards, and people who know that they are wrong.

[bitwhizz]

none of the above, however i might have been off with the use of semantic  

[marcelus]

Derivatives are by definition derived from something. MSC's worth isn't derived from anything. Therefore it isn't a derivative, and since it doesn't have nearly the network advantage Bitcoin has, its just another crapcoin, only marginally more crappy than the others due to the fact that it also bloats the blockchain.

We weren't talking about it as a derivative of bitcoin. We were talking about how it enables derivatives trading and speculating as to its possible worth given this ability.

[BitPirate]

Are you being paid for this thread?

[bitwhizz]

Are you being paid for this thread?

unfortunately not, i just thought it was a good discussion point

[tarmi]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

[Vycid]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

+1

[vokain]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

+1

It's a protocol layer that operates leveraging the power of the Bitcoin blockchain, thus is directly tied into the Bitcoin network. I first heard about mastercoins from adamstgBit in the mtgox wall thread early in August.

[bitwhizz]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

mastercoin isn;t an alt coin, its a protocol which piggys back ontop of the bitcoin block chain, therefore this section is actually appropriate in regards to it being an extension to bitcoin and an extension to bitcoin speculation, as both mastercoin and bitcoin will cause some speculative change in value to each other by co-existing together, thanks

[SheHadMANHands]

OP, are you paid per thread view, or number of replies/pages?

[calian]

My gripe with mastercoin is that as something built on bitcoin using it will entail bitcoin transaction fees presumably on top of mastercoin fees. Right now this isn't a big deal. However bitcoin is capped at what? 70,000 transactions a day? Bitcoin functions best as a reserve asset, like gold. If you can send bitcoin from Mexico to China in one hour you probably don't care if the transaction ends up costing $5 equivalent. It's still way cheaper than a wire transfer. However if you're using mastercoin as an exchange you're looking at paying a bitcoin fee everytime you enter an order or perform any other actions. Now I'm not saying it won't have compelling uses, but I'll bet it would be more cost effective to use the mastercoin forks running on less busy altcoins. Any Litecoiners up for a Leviticus address?

[marcelus]

My gripe with mastercoin is that as something built on bitcoin using it will entail bitcoin transaction fees presumably on top of mastercoin fees. Right now this isn't a big deal. However bitcoin is capped at what? 70,000 transactions a day? Bitcoin functions best as a reserve asset, like gold. If you can send bitcoin from Mexico to China in one hour you probably don't care if the transaction ends up costing $5 equivalent. It's still way cheaper than a wire transfer. However if you're using mastercoin as an exchange you're looking at paying a bitcoin fee everytime you enter an order or perform any other actions. Now I'm not saying it won't have compelling uses, but I'll bet it would be more cost effective to use the mastercoin forks running on less busy altcoins. Any Litecoiners up for a Leviticus address?

You may be right but there are compelling reasons to build on bitcoin too. Security being one. The main one reason however is that bitcoin is the front runner in crypto-currencies by a distance. Using its network fosters far more innovation than running on an alt coin. There's been disturbingly little innovation in the space considering the opportunities Satoshi Nakomoto opened up to us. This is a well-funded project that has some really exciting propositions. Its place is on the bitcoin network. It can flourish there most. It will provide the bitcoin developers with challenges down the line for sure. If they can't meet them, mastercoin may have to migrate and contingency planning for that is already in place.   

[Barnacle_Ed]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

+1

+1 from me as well. Keep the latest flavor-of-the-monthcoins in the appropriate subform.

[marcelus]

move this thread to alt coin area, please.

+1

+1 from me as well. Keep the latest flavor-of-the-monthcoins in the appropriate subform.

I suppose you're right yeah. When Satoshi Nakamoto invented bitcoin, he just intended people to buy and sell them on exchanges and not actually do anything else with them. All he had in mind were pump and dumps, weekend dips and bi-annual bubbles. He didn't actually intend them to be revolutionary for humanity at all. Best we forget about any other silly aspirations people may have.